micro mill electricals problems, help please!!

[kayzed1]

If you can do with a little AC motor i have one from a Clarke bench drill that got knocked off the bench and shattered the head, i removed the motor and switch and binned the rest of it. Will look at the plate to see what it is tomorrow.
Lyn.

[pmdevlin]

well the news is in from Arc Euro Trade. My motor, and control board have been tested independently on a machine under working conditions.

The board is past being salvaged. The fet I fitted is gone, the board is damaged (no doubt by me) the potentiometer shows signs of fault. On/off switch not tested alone, its not worth bothering with, when used with a  perfect motor after a few minutes was getting hot!

The motor ran ok at low speed, higher speeds emitted a lot of sparks, showed signs of the misfire I reported, became very noisy, they said if used at lower speeds might be ok, but lacked any torque, so its on its last legs. Which failed first, did one component take out the other, what about the fool who stuffed ac into the motor, well that is all in the past now, so decision time.

Its £200 to replace the two parts, plus its not worth sticking with the original pot and on/off switch. new machine is £399, ok not with the belt drive, longer table I have, but brand new.

I said all along I would not spend £200, but now I am in the corner I wasn't really deep down expecting, and I have the nominal fee to pay for the tests. I could buy second hand, but if coming from an unknown source such as ebay I could be back to all this in  a short space of time. Maybe they machine is an expensive luxury, I only use it occasionally, and then its just some dabbling with model planes and boats, but its real nice to have, and I have a load of tooling now!
I could raise some cash, the machine sold as spares etc should raise £100 (one on ebay now without my upgrades is at £90), I also have a couple of model boats in the attic that could sell as I will probably never finish them.

Is it worth spending £200 on a machine a few years old, or call it a day and move on!
Paul

[Swarfing]

Maybe a quick Wanted on freecycle for an old treadmill? will have motor and controller for free if you are lucky? or a quick scourer on gumtree for something cheap to be a donor?

[steampunkpete]

If you can find a cheap / free motor somewhere, then finding a motor of about the right size, speed and power is the starting point. A cheap controller to suit will be found on ebay.

[John Rudd]

Paul,
Pm sent....don't give up yet...

[bertie_bassett]

shame the motor has gone as well as the board, was hoping it would be a simple fix for you, but at least now you know what's wrong.


definitely don't give up on it, you'll only lose money getting a newer one, and who's to say that wont take lots of work to get set up just right.
better the devil you know I think, you've got a good machine all set up, just need something to power it with. Any reasonably powerful motor with speed control should do the job. treadmills seem a good source if you can get one cheap. or even something like a washing machine motor could get it running again.

[velocette]

Hi Paul
Followed this posting with great interest loads of help and good advice.
Now you are faced with how to get the best option to get back to milling again.
I have an X2 mill drill that has been radicalised  so it is hard to recognize.
The treadmill motor is a good option however it can be a shoehorn job as they are all bigger than the original motor.
Anything over 110 mm diameter and the job becomes much more difficult.
This is controller I can recommend as I have in use three on various workshop machines.
The flywheel and pulley are removed and discarded and pulley fabricated to fit.
I have not had any problem running the motor in either direction that has the brushes at 90 deg to the centre line of the shaft.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electric-Motors/DC-Motors/Motor-Speed-Controllers/90-180-VDC-SPEED-CONTROL-W-POT-11-2269.axd.

This is basic unit that you have to wire up yourself and setup for the motor power you drive with it.
You probably have access to many more options and at more competetive prices.

Eric
 

[John Rudd]

Hi Paul
Followed this posting with great interest loads of help and good advice.
Now you are faced with how to get the best option to get back to milling again.
I have an X2 mill drill that has been radicalised  so it is hard to recognize.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electric-Motors/DC-Motors/Motor-Speed-Controllers/90-180-VDC-SPEED-CONTROL-W-POT-11-2269.axd.

This is basic unit that you have to wire up yourself and setup for the motor power you drive with it.
You probably have access to many more options and at more competetive prices.

Eric

The Minarik controller is pretty much like the KB series, although the low level circuitry is powered by an isolated supply (the onboard transformer )....

[steampunkpete]

Personally I would look to buy from a UK source where possible. If things go wrong it's easier to send things back. It's also worth considering that postage from the US is not cheap and added to import tax means that getting goods from the US is not necessarily cheaper than buying a functional equivalent in the UK.

[pmdevlin]

Hi all, firstly, many thanks for the suggestions, and support this thread has given me, its been quite a learning curve! Here is where I am!

I seriously considered the treadmill motor, even bid on one that was on fleabay local, but, then I thought I still need a controller of some sort, and would need to fabricate some sort of motor mount, and in the end, I would be cannibalising a nice machine that has sentimental value, not to mention some upgrades, I know where its been since new, I know who supplied it, so, the friend who I got the machine off was a model engineer, I had two model boats of his that had been in the attic for nearly two years, these raised £100 last week on ebay, so in a strange way, he funded the repair
I had a few long conversations with arc euro trade, who had the record of the original purchase. They tested the motor and board on a machine, and found both faulty. The motor was ok on low speeds, but once running fast, massive arcing, sparking, and the smell of death. I am considering writing to the guy who pumped AC through it and ask for a contribution, which I think is fair?, any thoughts? The fet I fitted had failed, more than likely due to me! the pot was faulty, and there was possibly damage on the circuitry. The motor had more that likely ruined the work John had done.
So, the saga was prob, board fet all along, cheap easy fix! John fixed this, but in the meantime the motor is damaged by the "expert", which then resulted in the motor taking out the repaired board, so I now have a new motor, new board, new pot, £200!!  

Hopefully all is ok now. I ran the motor at various speeds for 15 mins, it was stone cold, all seemed well. Arc euro suggested that as I only use the machine now and again, wrap the motor up to insulate it, and I have now brought the controller indoors, to stay in the house until needed................... Missus wont let me bring the lathe in! so that will be the next saga...

Many thanks

Paul

[John Rudd]

Sounds like an expensive but happy ending....
With regard to redress of the damaged motor, if Arc can testify that the motor was damaged due to applying AC to it, then you might have just cause....
Sorry I wasn't able to help further..

[vtsteam]

Very glad you have a working mill after all of this, rather than selling for parts and taking the loss. You can now work again, and you have your friend's mill. That's very good. 

[steampunkpete]

You are back in business - good to hear. I think your chances of proving that Mr. Numpty Repairman damaged the motor are slim. No harm in asking him, but don't get dragged into an argument if he refuses, look forward and enjoy yourself with some therapeutic swarf production.

What is your first project with the mill?

[pmdevlin]

its nothing like you boys can do! I'm currently building a radio controlled Pcf (patrol craft fast) vietnam swift boat as used up the vietnam rivers by the American army. ive done the running gear so most of the milling is done.  got some milling of plastic to do,  then a load of brass and ally fittings to do which is more lathe than mill

paul

[steampunkpete]

I'm sure I've seen one of these in progress recently somewhere. Are you associated with a company that does large scale armour models.

I've got a 1/6 scale jeep in the offing when the benches in the workshop are redone. It is a model of the jeep that my father used in Burma in WII, it looks something like the SAS desert jeeps that we all know from the films. I've made the pintle for the 50 Cal so far, and collected lots of parts and materials, so I'm all set - just need the benches.