Author Topic: Toolpost holder holder  (Read 24463 times)

bogstandard

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Toolpost holder holder
« on: April 13, 2009, 04:45:03 PM »
As most of you know, I have been rebuilding my workshop for about the last year, and now the time has come to start getting things organised.

On my lathe, I use a size T2 piston quick change toolpost (I think known as an 'Aloris' type in the US).

During the rebuild, I have been setting up all my toolholders to perfect centre height as they have been required, but they have been left strewn about the workshop on the nearest flat and level surface. So armed with a couple of lengths of 6mm bar given to me by the neighbour who stripped the cot down, I am finally going to get the problem sorted.

The die filer was set up with a hacksaw blade and 60 pieces of bar were cut to length in no time. 30 @ 50mm and 30 @ 40mm.




Half way thru the turning of the bars. All the short ones have been done.




I put a full point on one end and a feed in taper on the other. The pointy bit won't stay that way for long, I will be banging that end with a hammer, and a small flat should be formed on the end. The long ones were soon brought to the same state of machining.




This bit is the experimental bit, getting all the bells and whistles sorted.
After rooting about in the back room, I found a bit of that light brown stuff, I think it is called wood. It hate the stuff with a passion, but needs must.




Two of the bars were pushed tight up into the dovetails, and after a slick bit of measuring and calculation, I found the centre between the two bars.




A line was drawn, and two 5.9 holes were drilled 33.5mm apart, this is to ensure that the holders slip nicely onto the bars without forcing them.
The long bar was tapped down into the hole until 40mm remained protruding, the same was done in the bottom hole with the short rod, but leaving 30mm sticking out. By having different lengths of bar, it allows the holder to be located on the top one, and that then helps guide it onto the bottom one.
This is how the holder fits on.




A view from the front.




So now I knew the system would work. Now to the problems that occur in use.
Depending on which side the holder is mounted onto the toolpost, sets up how the tools fit into the holder.
So what I did, was got the two stickyoutest holders with mounted tools I have, and set them side by side, give them a little clearance between each other, and found the position the next set of bars should go in.




Two more pins located, nice gap, that will do me.




On the last set of racks I made for my old machine holders, I did it the normal way. That is, have a single bar and hang the holders on the bar, like using a coathook.
I have set up a pic to show the problem with that system. Under certain conditions, the holders end up in the position shown, screw to screw.
As you can easily see, this new setup will allow double the number of toolholders to be hung in the same space.




These are the dimensions I used with 6mm bar and T2 sized holders. If you want to try this system, you will need to work out the dimensions for your particular holders and bar.




So now the system has been proven, I will be up at dawn tomorrow, funny hat on, check shirt, axe over shoulder and Monty Python's 'Lumberjack Song' pumping out of the MP3 player.

Goin' to get me some more of that 'orrid brown stuff to finish the job off.


Bogs

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2009, 04:48:34 PM »
Great idea John. I am going to be going through my work shop in the next 6 months. This looks like a great deal!

Eric
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 04:59:35 PM »
Bogs, if you dont like that brown stuff you could instead use resin bonded cellulose.  ::)
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2009, 05:10:54 PM »
John,

I know all about resin bonded cellulose.

I spent hours playing about with natural and man made fabrics containing cellulose.

Eventually I could bond two pieces of paper together using nothing but pressure and heat. It ended up as biodegradeable decorative ribbon that is used for tying up your gifts and as bows on Christmas trees and wreaths.

Bogs
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 05:13:33 PM by bogstandard »

Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 06:10:23 PM »
John, if you dont like the look of wood for your tool holder holder how about offcuts of kitchen and bathroom materials?  I have quite a bit of 6mm white and it is very useful at covering up the brown stuff you are not so keen on.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 06:16:46 PM »
That's a neat idea you have there, I guess most of us have tool holders strewn all over the place.

I can see that being copied many times over  :thumbup:
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2009, 07:51:20 PM »
Wait until you see the finished article, later today


Bogs

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2009, 08:01:56 PM »
Hi John  :wave:


'Bout time you got to this ehh?!  :D 


Works just like you described it :thumbup:



Ralph.
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 08:02:38 PM »
Wont it take a while for the mulitple coats of polyurethane to set? :med:
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2009, 08:50:10 PM »
Quote
Wont it take a while for the mulitple coats of polyurethane to set?


Don't be silly, this is a workshop, not a museum.


Bogs

Offline Bernd

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 09:22:45 PM »
Bogs,

You've come up with another novel idea. I've seen all sorts of fancy holders for hanging those types of tool holders on, but a piece of wood and some round stock takes the cake.

Great idea. I love it. :thumbup:

Can't wait to see the finished project.  :clap:

Bernd
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Offline HS93

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 01:33:39 AM »
Didnt they write a song for you John

"Bogs the builder  can he do it.... YES HE CAN "

Peter

Sorry John I was bord



:ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 01:48:03 AM by HS93 »
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 04:45:30 PM »
On my foraging trip this morning, turned the corner and found a load of pre cut trees cowering in one of my storage areas, so I gave the biggest one a wack with an hammer, and dragged it back to the shop.




Once inside, it was dispatched humanely and was butchered to get the three limbs I required.
They were held together with a couple of coachbolts while I drilled holes all over the place.
Twenty in the top one, but I actually ended up with sixty very accurately drilled holes.




Just to make sure they were dead, I wacked in 60 metal pins to the correct depth.
A couple of holes in each one will allow my trophies to hang on the wall.




Up on the wall, and I found they were a perfect place to hang my toolholders on. All sorted into type and how often they are used.
So a little plastic rack underneath finished the job off, I can put all my tips and ground up tooling in that.




I now do have to get on with a commission job, so that will be about a week before I can go searching for any more little jobs to do.


Bogs

Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2009, 04:52:13 PM »
Nice work Bogster,  do you have any plans for lower levels in that corner of the 'shop? 

I always seem to end up putting stuff in a corner which is never used the end result being wasted space. :scratch:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2009, 04:53:56 PM »
Nice neat job John that will make your time more productive

 :whip:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2009, 05:22:21 PM »
Thanks lads, been meaning to do this for ages. Now it is done, I feel a lot happier.

John,

Actually nothing else can go into that corner. Just out of shot, lower down, is a set of rolling drawers reaching from the lathe front to the wall behind the lathe. Between that and the new racks is my area for changing the gears on the lathe. Under the metal collet rack is the oil filled radiator and swarf bin, so not much space left IN THAT CORNER, but I do have a couple more to work with.
There is an area above the new racks, and that is earmarked for a small rack to hold the lathe change gears and sundry items belonging to the lathe.

As you can see, I hate wasted space. In fact there are a couple of shelves going up behind the lathe for more lathe bits and my growing engine collection.

As long as I can reach it, it goes on the wall.


Bogs

Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 05:42:37 PM »
Ok John, understand, meanwhile I am facing some storage challenges myself especially as one workshop (the 'dirty' shop where welding and grinding happen) is severely hampered by out of control storage issues and my 'electronic' shop is almost a no go zone for the same reason. :(
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Offline Darren

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 06:13:04 PM »
That's a lot of trophies John, nice display....that'll impress the locals/visitors...... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

ja2on

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 06:17:48 PM »
slightly  :offtopic: John but can I ask why you have two dro's on the lathe ?

bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 08:27:53 PM »
Jason,

In my quest for greater accuracy in machining parts, I fitted an extra couple of read heads. One on the compound (topslide) and another on the tailstock.







It takes a lot of guesswork out of machining. It works better than I ever imagined it would.

Bogs

Offline usn ret

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 12:53:56 AM »
Bogs, what a novel approach, a verticle flat surface!!!! Does the same hold true that a clean desk is a sure sign of a cluttered mind = a clean and orderly shop is the sure sign of a totally messed up mind???  BTW sure looks great, but finding the tool that you are holding in your hand presents some great challenges and makes for great entertainment when friends are watching your quest to find  im your hand :doh:

Cliff :beer:
If it isn't broken your not looking hard enough!

bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 01:32:53 AM »
Cliff,

Anyone who has been into my shop will attest that it isn't as tidy as it looks.

My workbench usually looks like a bombsite. The vertical flat surface syndrome is a neccessity, an attempt to free up space on my benches.

Over the last year, I have given away many squids worth of tooling and equipment in the quest for an uncluttered shop, but I am losing the battle.


Bogs

Offline usn ret

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 02:26:33 AM »
Bogs.  if you dont have enough room for all your tools, you need a bigger space.  On the other hand, if you have space, you dont have enough tools.  RATS :jaw: You can't get there from here :( .  A do loop.
Cliff :coffee:
If it isn't broken your not looking hard enough!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 08:52:35 AM »
  On the other hand, if you have space, you dont have enough tools.  RATS :jaw:

Cliff :coffee:

Wrong in my case Cliff. I've got 2300sq ft. and can't find my tools.  :(

I seem to lay them down and can't find where I put them. Then the one in my hand gets laid down while I go look for the other one. Find the other one and can't remember were I laid down the first.

Ah yes I see a do loop also.  :scratch:

I'm getting  :offtopic: here. Time to take my meds. ::)

Bernd
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 03:01:27 PM »
Obviously Bernd you do not have near enough tools and stuff.  A proper home workshop has barely enough room to walk around! ::)
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 04:08:47 PM »
It's OK John,

Bernd is winding me up over how much space he has.

But one day, he will have his comeuppance. :wack:


Bogs

Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 06:54:13 PM »
Well I just think it is so sad Bogs that Bernd has so few tools he cant find them! :lol:

But you know those Americans are such resourceful chappies,  I remember a Popular Mechanics series which showed how to grind a file to make a knife and how to use a knife as a screw driver.  There was another about how to sharpen a screw driver to become a chisel but I am still waiting to read how to make a file from a chisel.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 06:57:30 PM by John Hill »
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Offline usn ret

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 07:41:28 PM »
John, a chisel is a filel however it is just about as coarse as you can get, one tooth per--------- :doh:

Cliff :beer:
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 07:55:54 PM by usn ret »
If it isn't broken your not looking hard enough!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 09:39:37 PM »
It's OK John,

Bernd is winding me up over how much space he has.

But one day, he will have his comeuppance. :wack:


Bogs

Dammm Bogs,

Just can't get anything by you can I?  :lol:

After I posted that I wondered if you give me a boot in the A**E and ya' didn't fail me.  :lol:  :lol:

Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 09:41:38 PM »
Well I just think it is so sad Bogs that Bernd has so few tools he cant find them! :lol:


Well I'm going to have to cure that as soon as I win the lotto.  :lol:
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2009, 10:28:43 PM »
Maybe Bogs will do the decent thing and send you an aid parcel of whitworth spanners and stuff? :beer:
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 11:02:45 PM by John Hill »
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2009, 10:54:24 PM »
Bernd,

You could rent half that space you have out to raise workshop cash, and still have an obscene sized shop.


Bogs


Offline John Hill

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2009, 11:08:12 PM »
I dont know about you Mr Bogs but I fear I am just a little jealous!

We used to have sheds that size when I lived on the family farm but somehow even they were a little cluttered,  a combine harvestor, a couple of tractors and a few generations of the family car tend to do that.

Bernd, enjoy your good fortune! :beer:
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bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2009, 11:29:30 PM »
No, it isn't jealousy John.

Bernd and myself have a bit of a banter about it.

I begrudge no man anything that he has (except for a few who I begrudge even breathing). What a man has made from life is his own and his to enjoy, unless he has made people suffer for his gain, then the breathing thing comes into it.

If I could do it I would, just like most people.

Enjoy it while you can.




BUT THAT DAMNED WORKSHOP IS STILL TOO BIG FOR HIM TO HAVE. IT SHOULD BE MINE, ALL MINE.  :bang:

:lol:


Bogs

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2009, 01:58:33 AM »
Its not the size that matters its what you do with it that counts  :lol:
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

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Offline Bernd

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2009, 10:08:49 AM »
This will be a bit off topic, but will be quick.

The reason for the large space was I wanted a ranch house and a large basement for a large modle railroad. Instead I got more interested in model engineering. I'll post a few pics in the Watercooler of what my large space looks like now.

Bogs, so far the only one that has suffered is my other half. That house has been a 12 year project so far and it's still not done.

I can rent you a good space if you ever decided to stay over here on holiday for a few weeks. Room & board are free. Oh and doggy treats for Bandit come along in that package.  :D

Stew, I'm trying to turn that huge space into an orginized machine shop. So far I've failed.  :bang:

Bernd

« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 10:35:50 AM by Bernd »
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Offline Pelallito

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2009, 08:55:08 AM »
Bogs,
I liked that a lot. I will be copying it soon. Thanks for the tip!
What is it that you have above your collet rack and under what looks like some boring bars? They sort of look like rubber drums in different diameters. Are they sanding drums?
Thanks again.
Fred

bogstandard

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2009, 10:07:54 AM »
Fred,

They are in fact straight shank expanding mandrels plus a few other specialised bits and pieces.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels

These were all bought when I was setting up a quick turnaround high precision workshop, but unfortunately over the last few months, that idea has had to be shelved because of personal family problems, and I don't think the idea will be resurrected at any time in the near future. I suppose they will get used in my general workshop machining from now on, if the need arises.

Bogs

Offline Pelallito

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Re: Toolpost holder holder
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2009, 05:53:29 PM »
Bogs,
Sorry to hear about the problems! I hope that they are all in the past, and everything is better now!
Thanks for the reply and I will look at the link in a minute.
Regards,
Fred