Author Topic: 7x12 clarke cl300m lathe - changing tool post making milling machine! (Read 34489 times)

raynerd · « **on:** April 15, 2009, 05:09:21 AM »

Hi Guys

I`m new on here - will post another thread in the "introductions" sub-forum shortly. I am 25 y/o and have always been interested in metalwork - about 5 years ago I owned a Unimat 3 with milling attachment which was an excellent machine but I had to sell a couple of years ago to fund my wedding. I have since got a house, daughter.... and when I came to look at buying one back on ebay - the price shocked me for what it is! They seem to have increased in further in price so I decided to plunge for a second-hand Asian-made lathe - UK branded the Clarke cl300m.

I have been using it for the last few weeks but I am really missing a milling machine. I use to use the Milling attachment on the Unimat 3 quite often and it was an excellent addition for the small cost. Not very rigid but dd the job. It was also good for space, my work area is not large so an additional milling machine takes up even more room!

Has anyone created or Modified a 7x12 to include a milling machine or attachment? I have seen this on the gadget builder website:

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/PostMiller.jpg

QUOTE from site:
"I added a Phase II AXA 100 QCTP. This toolpost looks huge on the minilathe and it makes a huge difference to the way the lathe operates: easy tool height adjustment, less tool chatter, a nice boring bar holder, and a simple mount for the cutoff tool. In addition, it's easy to add a vise to do simple milling: bolt a 3 inch length of 1/2 inch bar to a small vise, then mount the bar in the tool holder. The height is crudely adjustable using the tool height adjustment of the toolpost. An advantage to this setup is that it takes only seconds to shift from lathe to milling operations. The downside to the new toolpost (and there's always a downside) is that it restricts the size of items which can be turned due to its sheer size; I added the modified compound rest from LMS to help accommodate this and eventually modified the cross slide to allow more range.""

Does anyone think this is a good route to go down - the new tool post alone costs $150 from the USA but does anyone know a similar UK product?
Can any suggest an alternative cheap mini mill to look out for if you think it isn`t worth going down this route.

Thanks for any help.

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2009, 05:17:20 AM »

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum

I have a similar, but much smaller, toolpost on my 7x12..

Not sure how it would cope with milling as I don't have the need to try it, probably be fine

As a toolpost I wouldn't want to be without it now....got mine from LMS in the US,

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1001.15

sbwhart · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2009, 05:33:15 AM »

Hi Chris Welcome aboard

Is that Clarke 300 a 3 in 1 machine if so I used one for about 5 years i found the milling head OK I did some great work on it but it had limitations, I,ve recently bought a Seige mill and converted my 3 in 1 to just a 1 in 1 if that makes sence, in hind sight I wish I'd gone the lathe with a mill route. I think the add on attachements to enable you to mill on a lathe are OK but they have their limitations but if your stuck for space/cash you can still produce good work off them, after all our grandfathers didn't have the kit available to them that we have today and they did some magic work.

Have fun

and lets see some pics of your projects

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2009, 06:26:29 AM »

Hi Chris, welcome to our little group.

As far as I know, your lathe comes under the same generic category as the Seig 3, shown here.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/Model-C3-Mini-Lathe

If you go down the page a little, it shows some 'extras' you can get to fit this lathe.

The first one you will come across which you should be interested in is the vertical slide (C3 Milling Attachment). This little bit of kit does what you showed in your link, but a lot better.
I would just like to add, a vertical slide will never replace a proper mill, but it does allow you to get the same sort of results, but at a reduced speed.

The other is the quick change toolpost, which is very reasonably priced and comes with 3 holders already, with the option to buy more when they come back in stock.

Both these bits together will come to about the same price as the QCTP from LMS, by the time you add very bad exchange rate at the moment, shipping and import duty.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2461&category=-419988835

Hope this helps.

John

raynerd · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2009, 06:45:36 AM »

bogstandard - thank you so much for the link - I didn`t expect anyone in the UK to supply us with these "extra" extras! They even do the ball turner..!

Just to clarify then, with the vertical slide-milling attachment, you are basically using your lathe head stock as the milling machine and milling horizonally rather than normal vertical?

On an additional note, C3 Quick Change Tool Post Set - is that the tool post? How will it compare to the QCTP in my original post?

Quote from: sbwhart on April 15, 2009, 05:33:15 AM

Hi Chris Welcome aboard

Is that Clarke 300 a 3 in 1 machine if so I used one for about 5 years

Stew

Stew - no the clarke 300 is not a 3 in 1 - just a stand alone 7x12 asian made mini-lathe. I don`t really have room or the money for a mill and that is why I am thinking that this route of the Milling Attachment - vertical slide that bogstandard posted may be a route worth going down!

Chris

bogstandard · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2009, 08:07:22 AM »

Chris,

You are spot on, imagine standing the lathe on end with the tailstock at the bottom. The vertical slide will give you the Y axis (fwds/back), and the lathe crosslide the X axis (side to side). For depth of cut, you move forwards with your saddle (like raising the table up to meet the cutter). For fine movement of the saddle, you might need to rig up a dial gauge to give you an accurate reading and a good saddle lock as I did in my post on fixing Darrens lathe.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=627.msg5085#msg5085

Quote

On an additional note, C3 Quick Change Tool Post Set - is that the tool post? How will it compare to the QCTP in my original post?

That is the whole lot to give you what is required, a means of permanently setting the tool height in the holder and a way of changing tools quickly. Every type is a much of a muchness, different designs, but they all work to give the same end result.

The way they showed the milling being done in the first article you showed was, to put it bluntly, a load of crap. OK to put an odd slot in something to get yourself out of the s**t, but not a method for continual milling on the lathe like a vertical slide gives you.

Hope this helps.

Bogs

sbwhart · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:48:53 PM »

Vertical slides are certainly a good route to mill in a lathe I used one on my 3 in 1 to give me better milling options.
The one I used was for a Myford lathe, that I fitted to my machine this is it in use

Hope this helps

Cheers

Stew

raynerd · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2009, 06:53:28 PM »

Hi

Thanks for your input - the attachment has done a nice job of that piece.

I am really in two minds here what to do. I am scrapping around for money (as are most) and so really don`t have a lot to spend - immediately anyway. The vertical slide is £90, but will it really do a good enough job and be stable enough to use as a mill for my small projects which invariably will get bigger as I get better and start to demand more? Will my lathe be strong enough to use the vertical slide effectively? - Is the Myford lathe shown above not a bigger lathe and can therefore cope with milling better. Also, from what I have read, there is no substitute for a milling chuck or tools work free. Would I have to purchase one of these for the "lathe conversion" and if so this is adding to the cost.

In my head, it all leads me to the idea that I want a stand alone mill but they seem much more costly than lathes. I picked my lathe up for £165 on fleabay but there doesn`t seem any mills out there for even double this!

I have been looking at the Chester Champion, Axminster or Warco ZX15....perhaps a second hand bridgeport? I can`t even find most of these at the moment on ebay second hand - what price do they normally go for? Also, I can`t accommodate for anything too big - I believe some require a 1meter square floor space!!

I appreciate that this thread was started with me asking for alternatives to buying a mill, but I think as the answers have come back it has redirected my thoughts.

Appreciate any feedback - I know this is now turning into a "which mill?" thread!

Chris

bogstandard · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2009, 10:43:34 PM »

Chris,

Before delving too deep into the subject of mills, wait until you can turn a bit, and then you will know if your lathe can do it.

By diving in with both feet, you can end up hating it, when you hit your machining 'ignorance' and they start to eat expensive tooling. Get the lathe under your belt first, then make a decision if you can afford to go the way of the mill a little later. Then you would have the choice of going for a vertical slide setup, or a small mill.

If you pick up a mill for say £400, it might cost you at least half that much again to basically tool it up, and that would only be fairly basic setup with a half decent set of tooling.

Take it steady, and sleep on it. Think of the consequences if you get it wrong. Your bits could end back up on eblay if you get disillusioned.

John

raynerd · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2009, 03:14:28 AM »

You right, John. I will sit on my hands and learn this thread cutting with multiple leads first.

ja2on · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2009, 02:06:52 PM »

there is one mini mill on fleabay at the moment
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-milling-machine_W0QQitemZ280334650919QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item280334650919&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I might have a bid it's close'ish to me

Bernd · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2009, 04:50:55 PM »

For that price I'd go get it myself.

The Grizzly look a like over here in the states sells for $995 at the moment. I'd say at 10.50 it's a steal.

Bernd

bogstandard · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:31:35 PM »

Quote

I'd say at 10.50 it's a steal

Bernd,

I think everyone in the UK would bid on it if it was gong to stay around that price, that will most probably go for over 300 squid on a bad vendor day, 400 on a good day.

John S recently sold his mini lathe on eblay, and got a lot more for it than he paid new. It did have a few extras, but not enough to justify the price paid.

John

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:55:31 PM »

I got my Miller on Ebay for £200

Took me a while, like 2 yrs of watching and waiting.....but it was sure worth it

You just got to set yourself a price and keep bidding to that price till you get one....you will....

Bernd · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2009, 08:10:25 PM »

John,

I knew that the minute I looked at how much time was left. I'm sure it'll get up there in price.

Jason, keep us posted as to what it went for in the end.

Bernd

John Hill · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2009, 11:01:34 PM »

Chris, for what its worth:

I dont think there is anyone on MadModders with less 'shop experience than me, but I have a lathe and after making a couple of buckets of swarf I began looking for ways to make other than 'round stuff'. So I looked at a vertical slide for milling and came here for advice, then I went to my favourite tool and machine supplier and looked for something better. He showed me a 'mill drill' which I came back here for advice, then I went back to the supplier looking for a 'real' mill. Then I had a talk to the financial controller (Her Indoors), then I cancelled the whole idea, postponed more than cancelled I suppose!

Meanwhile, I have a little shaper which is better than nothing for making flat stuff.

raynerd · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2009, 06:45:01 AM »

John Hill - what put you off the vertical slide?

Problem with ebay is not only the right price but also location - due to the size and having to collect. I was lucky with the lathe that he was about 10 miles away!

I also have the problem that I don`t really know which mill would be suitable. I had seen the Clarke 300 lathe previous and considered it, so was happy to buy. With the mills - I haven`t seen that many and they look to go for much more!

What are the quality mini-mills I should be looking out for? Like I said earlier - nothing too big but then again, something functional!

Chris

ja2on · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2009, 07:50:45 AM »

Quote from: Bernd on April 16, 2009, 08:10:25 PM

John,

I knew that the minute I looked at how much time was left. I'm sure it'll get up there in price.

Jason, keep us posted as to what it went for in the end.

Bernd

I am saving for a x3 but it will take me forever.if a mini mill comes up at the right price and distance I will go for that
I am aware of the new price of these mills so I expect it will go for more than I want to pay that's what usually happens
I will let you know what it goes for

John Hill · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »

Chris, things that dissuaded me from the vertical slide:

1. My lathe has no 'T' slots or other means of attaching and having not yet knocked much paint off the new lathe I was reluctant to start drilling and tapping holes all over the cross slide!
2. Very few if any vertical slides on the market in New Zealand, new or used.
3. Importing a slide would have been expensive and equating to about 10 or 20% of the price of the lathe!
4. It seemed a little awkward having to dismantle and re-mantle** when going between milling and turning.
5. I can affort a mill, but just not yet!
6. I have my dinky little shaper for small jobs meantime.

**New word? _{(all rights reserved)}

raynerd · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2009, 04:50:56 PM »

Thanks, John

and bye the way, with fear of looking like a ****, I think you were looking for "assemble" or reassemble. All rights most definitely reserved to John Hill for "re-mantle"

Chris

ja2on · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2009, 06:22:10 PM »

sieg have a new mini mill (super X2)in their catalogue
http://bbs.51sieg.com/ug/2009%20catalog.pdf
brushless motor and belt drive as standard

oh no I'm getting tool envy

Darren · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2009, 06:52:09 PM »

I've tried milling on my industrial lathe, it's a nice and sold one...!!

I clamped the work directly to the topslide and although it worked well enough I found it to be nowhere as rigid as my mill/drill. There are just too many parts to chatter about. BTW on this lathe the crosslide clamps directly to the bed so no movement there like on most other lathes.

I don't think I'd ever be tempted to try milling on my 7x12, but then I'm fortunate enough not to need too. But I understand why you might, I was there myself not so long ago.

ja2on · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2009, 01:56:31 PM »

Bernd the mini mill is up to £226.09 with 22 hours to go

it's almost to dear for me now for a two year old mill that might have unknown problems.
plus I checked my milling machine piggy bank and can almost afford a x3

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-milling-machine_W0QQitemZ280334650919QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item280334650919&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318
so guys competition time (there is no prize

)
guess the final price

bogstandard · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2009, 02:49:32 PM »

Jason,

I would guesstimate about 330 squid but it could go a lot higher. The machining season is upon us and it just depends how many idiots are knocking about.

Would it be worth saving your pennies a little longer and go for the updated X3?
I haven't really looked at what the main differences are, but it might be worth checking out, just to see if it justifies the longer wait.
It is a real major purchase that will last you for many years, and if you decide you really wanted the later machine, you could be kicking yourself for a long time. I was going for the Chester 626, then a windfall came my way, and I got the 836. Looking at it now, if I had gone for the 626, I would now be regretting it, and saving up again to get the one I have ended up with.

If the extras don't justify the higher price, then you can still go back to your original choice.

Bogs

ja2on · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:04:15 PM »

John

I will be going with an X3 I was just tempted by the X2 as it was close but I have seen the light

When you say upgraded X3 are you referring to the super X3 ?
there lies my next problem as it is the super X3 I fancy but axminster don't list a R8 machine
and arc euro don't have the super model.

Jason

bogstandard · « **Reply #25 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:34:31 PM »

Try this one Jason.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sieg-Super-X3-Milling-Machine_W0QQitemZ360142633069QQihZ023QQcategoryZ12584QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

It also gives you a link to an in depth review of the Super X3

http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/Sx3rvw/SX3-4.htm

John

ja2on · « **Reply #26 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:49:04 PM »

cheers John

Bernd · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2009, 10:17:53 PM »

Thanks for the update Jason.

Bernd

ja2on · « **Reply #28 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:44:00 AM »

Taking this even more

I emailed axminster and they can get me a R8 spindle super X3 in 8 to 12 weeks.

Darren · « **Reply #29 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:53:51 AM »

Go for it, you know you want to

Don't listen to me, just pullin on ya

I know it's a hard choice to make with so many model available, dosh comes into it somewhere too....

sbwhart · « **Reply #30 on:** April 21, 2009, 08:29:40 AM »

Jason

Don't forget to budget for some kit to go with the mill. As a starter for ten you'll need

A good robust milling vice

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2erdgtools%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fCLAMPING_TOOLS_AND_INDIVIDUAL_T_NUTS%2ehtml&WD=machine%20vice&PN=NEW_LINES_TO_RDGTOOLS%2ehtml%23a1198#a1198

Collets like this http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/ER32_SPRING_COLLET_CHUCK_SYSTEMS.html

Plus lots of other bits you can get as you go along

Stew

cedge · « **Reply #31 on:** April 21, 2009, 10:00:08 AM »

Jason
Having owned the Sx3 for a while, I can vouch for it being head and shoulders above the performance of the x2 machines. You won't regret the choice to upgrade, once you've used it.

Steve

raynerd · « **Reply #32 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:00:07 PM »

It just so happens that RDG tools is around the corner from me! I am going to pay them a visit tomorrow morning - I am looking or a QCTP but I`m unsure they do one that will fit my lathe - can anyone tell me if they do:

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/QUICKCHANGE_TOOLPOST.html

It is disappointing because they don`t seem to do the same range of mini lathe accessories than some of the other machinist shops.... or am I missing them (brass tapered gibs, carriage stop ......)?

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2009, 02:44:18 PM »

WOW - went to RDG tools today and was so impressed - I was like a kid in a sweet shop (only with the same amount of money!)...

It is a stunning place, like a warehouse floor but loads of tables and hundreds of containers with bits and pieces in. I suppose it had for sale everything I was expecting it was just the way it was displayed - so openly! Literally like a "pick & mix" (sorry for all the sweet shop analogies).

Service was excellent, the guy seemed very knowledgeable, I did make a few purchases but he spent a lot of time with me which he did not have to do. He also had lots of models that had been made as examples, stunning work. There was also quite a bit of second hand tooling, Myford lathes, asian lathes, all sorts.

Really impressed - they do a lot of business on the internet apparently and I hope their mail service trade is as good as their in-person shop service - highly recommend and I have absolutely no affiliation with them in any way. Will certainly be visiting again.

Chris

sbwhart · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2009, 03:32:07 PM »

Chris:- their mail order gets top marks for efficiency and delivery:- I ordered the DTI's on Monday they were delivered on Wednesday and that was after getting three email to say they were in the post on their way and expect delivery at.

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2009, 04:05:07 PM »

Jason,

I have just backtracked on that ebay mill, and it went for an amazing price of less than £300. Someone got a good buy. I just wonder how much further he would have gone if there was another bidder to take up the challenge.

Chris,

Arc Euro and RDG are my two main buying sources, but Arc Euro knocks spots off RDG for delivery and customer support, even though they don't have the same large range as RDG, but some of the cheaper RDG tools are pure tat, sold as stocking fillers, whereas with Arc, everything I have had from them has been top grade stuff.

I have also noticed that a lot of RDG prices have risen sharply since moving to their new premises. Someone has to pay the rent, this time it is the customer.

Don't get me wrong, RDG is good to deal with and has a good range, but sometimes, some of the smaller items can be a bit suspect. Put it this way, never again will I buy centre drills and drill sets from there, not up to the quality I like.

John

raynerd · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2009, 04:19:54 PM »

Really pleased that their mail service is as good... just a pitty they don`t do some of the model lathe accessories that ArcEuroTrade stock - toolpost holders, vertical slide attachment, brass gibs...bla bla.

I did mention buying a vertical slide for my lathe and he mentioned that a cheap way to get a similar setup was to buy this "L" shaped piece of steel he sold, I forget what he called it. Then drill this so that it will screw to the compound slide. You don`t have full control of vertical movement but by clamping your piece at the correct height gives you some vertical movement. The L shape steel costs £12 but then I guess you would need a set of clamps and before you know it, you are near the £75 price tag of a vertical slide. Just a thought...anyone used this setup. It is almost an even cheaper setup than shown in the link on my first post.

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2009, 04:23:30 PM »

Yea, that mill went for £250 !! I had my eye on it only it was miles away from me in Kent!

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #38 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:39:49 AM »

Hey guys - what do you think of this:

Any info on it welcome - it comes with 3-1/4" new swivel machine vice, 2-1/2" dia insert-face mill tool, 6-13mm drill chuck, small autolock chuck with 4 imperial collets (1/4 - 3/8 - 1/2 - 5/8 dia) plus 5 of number 2 morse vertical milling cutters.
The asking is £600 which seems on the steap side but being right on my doorstep I wonder if it doesn`t sell could I knock it down?

EDIT: just spoke to my wife and the answer is NO apparently regardless of price!

I`m going to have to stick to my £300 limit...

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #39 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:54:07 AM »

I believe he's listed it 3 times now with no bids, so you could try...

As to if it's any good I have no idea as it's not familiar to me, hopefully someone will be able to help there.

bogstandard · « **Reply #40 on:** May 01, 2009, 07:28:38 AM »

That is rather an old model, no longer available, so if things did go wrong, spares might be an issue. Plus he has added bits all over the place and painted it up a little, most probably just to make it look nice for selling.

The bits he is 'giving away' with it are either out of date to modern practices, or just not worth much. So you would most probably have to spend a bit to make it worth using, getting the items required to start milling.

IMHO it is only worth half of what he is asking, and it would need a good checking over before making a commitment. Buyer beware.

Very rarely do you get what you want locally, and you have to be prepared to travel, or get a carrier or transporter involved, which could cost a fair wack in itself. For a small machine such as that, expect to pay about 200 - 250 squid to get it picked up, dropped off and installed in your workshop (it all depends on distance). My lathe and mill cost 300 squid each for that service, and THAT WAS CHEAP. Chesters wanted at least 1K for the mill, and they wanted to take the roof off to get it in.

So really, the decision is all yours. You get what you pay for, and if you make a mistake, no amount of moaning and groaning will put it to rights.

John

raynerd · « **Reply #41 on:** May 01, 2009, 10:10:21 AM »

John

Cheers for the sound advice. I will stay well clear at that price.
Chris

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