Author Topic: Which rods for a buzz box welder?  (Read 11948 times)

Offline Eugene

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Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« on: January 12, 2015, 04:18:28 PM »
I've never done any welding other than hard silver soldering. However a kind friend has given me a simple buzz box welder and I'd like to get on terms with it. The machine seemed happy enough with 2.5mm rod when used on some flat scrap and considering my skill level (zero) produced a reasonablish bead.

I understand that some grades of rod are more forgiving than others especially for beginners; if that is right which grade do I order? The initial aim is to make some framework from m/s box section.

Thanks in advance,

Eug
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:50:30 PM by Eugene »

Offline edward

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 04:32:29 PM »
I am in a similar position having been gifted an ancient Weldmate. Done a bit of gas brazing in the past but no welding of any sort. Will be following along.

If I may ask a supplemental (and possibly complimentary) question, mine came with a bunch of rods but they are all potentially damp as the packs were open. How could I set about drying them out as I understand damp might not be idea!?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:56:37 PM by edward »

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 04:52:28 PM »
Electrodes are normally stored in a heated oven to prevent moisture ingress....
You could try placing them in your boss's kitchen .....
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 07:16:28 PM »
I use 6011 more than anything else for utility stuff, but it isn't a pretty weld -- good penetration though. 6013 is often considered a beginner's rod because it flows out more with less spatter, but it really only does that well on a horizontal surface -- too liquidy for vertical or overhead. Also I tend to make crap welds with it -- but then I'm not a great welder.

7018 is a good rod, more expensive. And I've even welded cast iron with it. That's frowned upon generally. This is all personal opinion based on my buzzbox and amateurish welding, not a pro with good equipment.

6011 is pretty much my go to rod.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline 12345678910

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 09:46:39 PM »
Not all rods are stored in an oven.
7018 is

Try 3/32" 7014 rods
They are easy to use and give good results.

After that you can go to 7018 but they need dry storage and are harder to strike and maintain the arc.

If your welder is AC only, find rods like 7014AC, 7018AC


Lincoln welding has a website full of tech info

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 10:56:47 PM »
As far as I know buzzbox welders are all AC. Hence the buzz.

I'm partial to ChuckE2009's videos on youtube for down to earth stick welding info.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 03:48:47 AM »
I use 6011 more than anything else for utility stuff, but it isn't a pretty weld -- good penetration though. 6013 is often considered a beginner's rod because it flows out more with less spatter, but it really only does that well on a horizontal surface -- too liquidy for vertical or overhead. Also I tend to make crap welds with it -- but then I'm not a great welder.

7018 is a good rod, more expensive. And I've even welded cast iron with it. That's frowned upon generally. This is all personal opinion based on my buzzbox and amateurish welding, not a pro with good equipment.

6011 is pretty much my go to rod.

I only own a box of 3.2mm 6013 that I use very occasionally on my buzz box welder, and yeah it's very difficult to weld vertical and I've never even tried overhead. It's possible to weld 2mm steel with the 3.2 rods, but a bit tricky. I'd go for something thinner if I had the chance again.

The rods are stored in an old mini fridge with a few packets of sillica gel that came with PC parts, I think. I'm not sure if it does anything to keep the moisture out but i've not had a problem so far.

Don't be put off by all the stuff you'll find online saying it's impossible to weld with a buzz box though. Even the ugliest welds full of gouges will still hold steel together very well.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 04:04:30 AM »
I've always used 6013's for 'stuff around the farm' - it's a good rod for use on an AC buzz box. I also have 7018's but they are a nightmare to get going on AC - really need a DC welder then they are fine.

I was tortured in my welding classes years ago having to always do the root pass on heavy plate using 7018 with a 55v AC buzz box. If you cheated and swapped the connector for the 80v setting it got easier but make sure the instructor doesn't see  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 09:02:39 AM »
I have to admit, I used the 7018 w/ a DC welder, not my lincoln buzz box, aka "tombstone" welder.

I've done countless jobs with the buzzbox, including building a 10,000 lb capacity trailer for my houseboat, and my sawmill. Both required vertical welds -- there was a lot of channel and angle iron in the construction. That's where I learned to love 6011, even though it spatters.

I keep both 6013 and 6011 in various sizes, though 1/8" is by far the most used and I go though 3 times as much 6011 as 6013.  7018 I keep for specialty situations, and don't use much. Supposedly the 60 stands for 60 thousand psi strength, and the 70 for 70 kpsi. Well I doubt it when I get through with it,! But I also doubt that just about any steel I'm likely to pull out of my scrap pile for project is going to equal 60K psi either.

Incidentally, brazing is actually higher kpsi -- most people think it's less. Though its best purpose is for large area connections like lap or thick butt joints, not so good for thin butt joints. It's particularly good where you don't want to melt the parent metal, as in connecting already machined parts, and of course for reducing the liklihood of cracking cast iron.

And speaking of cast iron, and madness/modness here's the completely unapproved method of stick welding it, courtesy of fast talkin' (but fun to watch) ChuckE2009. It's worked for me on several occasions:



I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline RotarySMP

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 09:36:23 AM »
I'd liked to give a second vote for ChuckE2009's youtube "how to weld" videos. I have little welding experience, except a few lessons of Oxy/Acetylene during my apprenticship and a bit of mucking around with a flux core years ago.

A friend lent me an inverter welder, and a half box of 6013 2.5 (3/32"). I spend a couple weeks of evenings laying down beads on a slab of 10mm plate, and then watching ChuckE2009 videos to work out what I was doing wrong. By the end of that box of electrodes, my welds look like...
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257222&d=1416161455
and
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257224&d=1416161455

At least for me 6013's seems to work okay on mild steel. Preparing the joint with a good fit, cleaning off rust, grinding fillets, and positioning the work so the weld is flat, at comfortable height etc all make a huge difference.

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Meilleures salutations, Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Cu salutari
Mark
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Offline Eugene

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 02:45:27 PM »
Thanks boys, I'll go with 6011 and 7014AC and see how I get on with each.

Just for those in UK where do you get your supplies? I'm miles from anywhere so a postal / internet source would be nice; otherwise it will probably be a drive to Brum or at least Shrewsbury.

Eug

Offline BenH

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2015, 03:29:35 PM »
If your in the UK you will find 6013 much easier to get than 6011, unless you are doing a weld that needs the extra strength a 70xx rod is not needed either. Though a 7014 will lay down more weld due to the iron powder in the flux, but again not really needed.

I use Bohler rods as I find they tend to run better than most out there and the price is not too bad, you really do get what you pay for and cheap rods (T&R) are best avoided as they will give you grief!

For 6013 I use Bohler Phoenix Blau, in 2.5 3.2 and 4mm, very nice rods and are made to run well on low OCV sets like buzz boxs. I'd also say Oerlikeron Fincord M are very nice but can be expensive.

If I want a Lohy rod I tend to go 7016 with Bohler UTP comet J50n, but they really need a higher OVC set (like an oxford) or better yet a DC inverter. You shoud be able to weld allmost anything with 2.5mm just takes a lot passes with thicker stuff.

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2015, 06:50:03 PM »
Hi guys..

60xx sires rods (6010-6011 etc) are spray arc rods, they do exactly that through the welding process, they are designed to penetrate into the joint and violently deposit metal via a spray, they also blast out contaminants and trash and really don't care  how clean the joint or surface is, you can weld rust if you want.

This rod is perfect for any position because of the spray action, in fact it makes this rod unique, its meant to fill gaps,  it should be cleaned up with a grinding wheel to get rid of the in-bedded stubborn slag deposits  and re coated or capped with a Low-Hy-rod (70xx sires), the 60xx sires rod will leave splatter everywhere in the shape of little balls and they go everywhere so shield your area to stop this splatter.

You apply this rod by a whip or drag action when filling a gap, you hold your molten pool then whip about a quarter inch then come back to the pool area that is now solid and just repete. if your hole wants to solidify and fall or explode just whip the rod away and let the area cool. A nice trick to this rod is think of the length of the rod as a garden hose, where ever you point the end of the hose water will spurt out in the same direction you point it, spry arc do exactly this.

when no gap is there you can just lay the rod at a 30Deg angle from horizontal and let it deposit the metal, your crown will be high but with a perfect speed and heat the bead can look like a row of penies laying on top of each other, for a 1/8 rod 70-75 amps is perfect. This rod can be stored in a barrel of water and used wet the rods will work perfectly, the flux is tougher than dog snot, its nick name is Junk-Yard rods but really its an unfair its the first course or (root) for every major carbon steel pipeline in the world.

70xx sires or Low-Hy rods are for filling (area) and capping (last deposit) 7018 is the most common but all are similar in welding techniques,  it too is an all position rod but applying it is slightly different to the 60xx sires, this type is called Globular Arc, what happens is the end of the rod instantaneously balls up into a molten ball and needs to be deposited, it all happens so fast it appears to be always liquid, here you lead the rod, by that consider it like a pen full of ink, your rod is the pen and the ink is the molten metal you want to apply to the joint, once the arc has been struck you lay your metal on the joint and just lead the rod and let the metal flow from the end where you want it.

Watch the pool of molten metal it will spread out because its liquid, if your too slow is will just splay out and look ugly, if your too fast it will look like moose tracks, play with this rod on a horizontal surface first to get the hang of it, if your filling a joint that is angled you really should stack it, apply a run on the bottom first then apply another bead on top of that, it can be done by weaving but to a beginner it will tear you a new one.

This rod needs to be dry and warm if possible, water or moisture in the flux will sole destroy you so keep them clean and dry.its ten times easier to weld with a 3/32 rod than a 1/8 for a beginner, believe me i have seen 20 year vets in welding work twice as hard not to use 1/8 rods, its all because of the amount of metal being applied in time and heat.

all in all these are all you need to know about these rods, for everyday use they will all you will ever need for carbon steel.

One last piece of advice, apply your efforts to learning TIG welding, its not hard and with todays technology and prices its the only way to weld.

Hope this helps.

Anthony.   
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline 12345678910

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2015, 07:45:54 PM »
If you're talking videos

http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Mountain-Arc-Welding-DVD/dp/B0006ZFRUM
There is an arc weld part one and two.

You can buy them, download them, or inter library loan.



I can't stand Chuckie's voice, it just grates me.

In terms of youtuve videos, Jody at Welding tips and tricks is good quality content and delivery
 
t=28





Offline hermetic

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Re: Which rods for a buzz box welder?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 11:21:11 AM »
Hi all, FWIW, I had a series 2 landrover with a dodgy cast iron exhaust manifold, this is the type where there are lugs on the manifolds and it is held in place by clamps that hold both inlet and exhaust manifolds on to the engine.Two of the lugs were boken off, and I had no other welding equipment at this time, other than an ancient (even then!) BOC mig welder I veed the breaks as best I could, and welded it up using standard mild steel wire, no preheat, no postheat, and it was still ok when I sold it 4 years later, Think on though, this is fairly thin cast iron, and it did get very hot, but it worked! Problem with most cast manifolds is the fact that they go through millions of heat/cool cycles, and they are usually made from the scrapings from the bottom of the foundry
Man who says it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?