Author Topic: Insulation material advice  (Read 9543 times)

Offline RobWilson

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Insulation material advice
« on: February 24, 2015, 02:47:47 PM »
Hi Lads

After a bit advice , I am looking to builds a small heated press  :dremel:   . what would be best for an insulating layer .



Rob

Offline Joules

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 03:11:35 PM »
Kapton tape as used by the 3D printing people, its good to +400℃ and available on a roll.

Sorry, is that electrical insulation or thermal ?

For thermal you can get a foil backed ceramic paper, its used on model jet engines.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Baron

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 04:07:19 PM »
Hi Rob,

As Joules said Kapton tape is both a good electrical insulator and will conduct heat readily.  If its thermal insulation you need, an air gap would be as good as any.

I used to have a similar press that I built, that I used for embossing plastics and some other materials.  I used an 8" solid hotplate from an oven hob along with a washing machine thermostat to control the temperature.  It worked very well.  The clamp handle was made from wood, but the base was the part that suffered from the heat.  Its not too long ago that I disposed of it.
 
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 04:09:13 PM »
I've got some thick - perhaps 1" - very dense asbestos sheet used to box induction furnaces, but I don't suppose that the hse police would like that  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Baron

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 04:15:04 PM »
Hi Andrew,

I thought that, that kind of insulation was mostly cement.
Best Regards:
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Offline RobWilson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 04:36:03 PM »
Cheers  Lads

Yer its thermal insulation I am after , I dont want to waist heat heating up the steel backing plates .

My first thought was asbestos Andrew , cant seam to even get hold of Asbestolux either  :bang:


Rob

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 04:55:37 PM »
Rob,
Go along to your local building/roofing merchant and ask about verge....it's a cement looking material ( in sheet/board form) , this might suit your needs, or else try Wickes...this might do..

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Knauf-Aquapanel-Floor-Tile-Underlay-1200x900x6mm/p/163611
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Offline philf

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 04:58:59 PM »
Rob,

Plenty of suitable non-asbestos materials on this site:

http://www.par-group.co.uk/high-temperature-insulation/insulation-boards/

I don't know if they sell in small quantities but, if not, they might be persuaded to send you a sample.

My best mate contracted asbestos related lung cancer - he could only remember working where there was asbestos in a boiler house when he was an apprentice 50 years previous. I miss him. Having said that my father-in-law is 93 and worked in a brake lining factory unloading bales of asbestos for many years with no signs of lung problems.

Cheers.

Phil.
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Offline mattinker

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 05:58:00 PM »
If the space is enclosed you could use Perlite or Vermiculite which is very cheap!

Regards, Matthew

Offline awemawson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 06:04:25 PM »
Rob you'd be welcome to it but it's probably not advisable. As has been said its cement bonded but has a very high asbestos content. I have cut it and drilled it in the past but first soaked it in water and had a hand spray to hand to make sure no particles wandered off.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 06:59:42 PM »
We used to use some stuff on the hot foil presses from RS, just looked but it's out of stock until May.
Perhaps you can source some from somewhere else ?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-insulating-sheets/3257489/

John Stevenson

Offline Joules

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 07:08:28 PM »
See if this stuff fits the bill.  Its fairly cheap in comparison to other alternatives.

http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/spares-accessories/general-spares/tailpipes/insulation-material
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline awemawson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 02:55:04 AM »
From Rob's original post I'm assuming the insulation needs to transmit the 80 kg force so needs to be incompressible so blanket type insulation isn't going to fit the bill?
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline bp

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2015, 04:48:30 AM »
I would be tempted to try a couple of sheets of MDF, after all 200 degrees isn't that hot really.  If it chars, oh dear what a pity, get another piece.   Probably got some floating around in the shed.............
cheers
Bill

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2015, 05:45:36 AM »
Most welding presses i have seen dont have an insulator actually, they just go with thicker material so the heat rather stay in the material. Of course dissipation into the pressing plates will happen either way but not as fast.
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 05:47:46 AM »
Based on the fact that I have a few modest talents but knowing what I'm doing ain't one of them ....

Would any of the stuff on here be suitable ???

Like this:

http://www.presspahn.com/Cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15&zenid=8c66885195ee3b0a64b524c16de0e2ff

Or some of the other stuff on the site ?

Dave
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 06:27:30 AM »
That's a very useful link - duly bookmarked   :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2015, 07:01:47 AM »
Rob,
On that site that Bluechip linked to is this product.

http://www.presspahn.com/Cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=8c66885195ee3b0a64b524c16de0e2ff

What caught my eye is it's also called Elephantide and that is what motor rewinders user as insulation board. If you get stuck I can scrounge some for you if you like.
John Stevenson

Offline Baron

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2015, 09:40:39 AM »
When I made my hot press, the hotplate was stood off the backing plate by small steel spacers.  About 6 mm (1/4") thick.  Yes it got warm, but nowhere near as hot as the work surface.
 
Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2015, 09:49:43 AM »
What about the vermiculite sheet that they sell for making small brazing hearths if 15mm is not too thick.

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/brazing-ancillaries/index.asp

Offline rowbare

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2015, 11:52:05 AM »
If there is a place locally that deals with ceramics or hot glass, you can get insulating sheets something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-Fiber-Insulation-Blanket-for-Wood-Stoves-or-Inserts-12-x-24-/271657465409.

You can get them in various thicknesses and they will take pretty high temperatures.

bob

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Insulation material advice
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2015, 12:21:48 PM »
Thank you all Lads  :clap: :clap: :clap: 


All good ideas and links  :thumbup:  , looked at and thought about them all and it looks like I will be going with Dave BC "Cogetherm" as it ticks all the boxes.

Quote
Cogetherm 5mm CTHM A3 (297 x 420mm)
20.16
Cogetherm is a mica laminate designed for electromechanical and thermomechanical applications requiring one or more of the following properties:
excellent resistance to heat and even to open flame up to 1000 Deg C
low thermal conductivity
excellent electrical insulation
high resistance to pressure
impervious to most chemicals, in particular oil and grease
ASBESTOS-FREE
ecologically safe and non-toxic


And its cheep  :)



Rob,

What caught my eye is it's also called Elephantide and that is what motor rewinders user as insulation board. If you get stuck I can scrounge some for you if you like.


Cheers for pointing that out John (you do have a use  :lol:)  , saves me looking for that in the future ,as I do have a project for said material . The motor rewind company we use at work is very guarded about were they get there supplies from . :(   



Thanks again Lads  :thumbup: