Author Topic: Banjo Build  (Read 154867 times)

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #275 on: July 27, 2015, 08:21:57 PM »
It's acting like cold rolled steel, which, I suppose makes sense.

I wonder if you heated it up and plunged it (brass annealing process) first, if that would have relieved the internal stresses enough to saw straight on the band saw?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #276 on: July 27, 2015, 09:39:05 PM »
It's acting like cold rolled steel, which, I suppose makes sense.

I wonder if you heated it up and plunged it (brass annealing process) first, if that would have relieved the internal stresses enough to saw straight on the band saw?

I'm curious now too. I suppose I could've set that firebrick thing up again and slowly fed the bar through, it'd anneal just cooling in the air as well. But it's a bit late now.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #277 on: July 27, 2015, 09:41:08 PM »
I believe that, unlike steel, you heat to red heat and plunge brass to anneal. Steel, of course hardens if you do that. But I think brass is opposite.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #278 on: July 28, 2015, 06:09:26 AM »
I believe that, unlike steel, you heat to red heat and plunge brass to anneal. Steel, of course hardens if you do that. But I think brass is opposite.

In the past i've just let stuff air cool, I figured with brass you only had to get it hot and it doesn't really matter how it cools.

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #279 on: July 28, 2015, 06:39:49 PM »


Set up to cut the heel. Waiting for glue to dry on it before I put real clamping pressure on, but I also need to drill a few holes to accommodate the screws for mounting it to the rim. Which'll probably be easier to do while it's still flat rather than curved.

It's raised up about 2 degrees backwards tilt, and also about .5 degrees to the side so that the strings line up properly.

Also still working on the shoes. Had to cut that short since people were getting upset at the constant router noises; I was using the router table and a rotary burr to shape them. Unfortunately the way I originally intended (routing them like they were wood) didn't work since i'd sort of stuck them all to a bit of MDF with double sided tape. It was never going to be strong enough and I knew fine well, but I still wanted to try it. But i'm now just shaping them by hand with a handle screwed into the screw hole.

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #280 on: July 29, 2015, 07:08:47 PM »
Made the shoes.


Burr in the router to shape them, using a handle screwed in. I thought it was neat the way the brass shavings moved to the nodes on the table surface, like that one plate experiment thing.


Other shaping was done with a file. Here i'm putting a slight concavity into the side that sits against the banjo rim, just so they don't rock about.


They're pretty mangled and all sorts of different dimensions. For the amount of work it took I feel I probably could've done better. But they'll still do. The shoes on two other old banjos I own are similarly misshapen, and I can only assume they were made in a similarly stupid way. If I had the time I would've tried lost was casting them

Also fit the neck to the pot.


Drilled some mounting holes. The idea is that i'll make a kind of nut that fits in the larger hole in the base, I think they call them barrel nuts. Perhaps could've done it in a more 'invisible' way but I just forgot to drill the hole before sticking the fingerboard on.


Sanded the heel fit. Hopefully got it close enough but it shouldn't be too difficult to adjust it. You can see the oak 'clamp brackets' in this picture; the pine ones snapped almost immediately.


For the tension band I tried ring rolling it. It's 5mm thick 304 stainless and this piddly ring roller wasn't at all fit for the task.


Plan B is to bend it around a form, since I want the curve to be fairly even but don't want to go wild trying to make a stout ring roller. That's a project in itself.

Anyways this 'form' was an offcut from making the heel sanding setup, it's 267mm and the steel after bending it to that sprung back to 365mm. I might be wrong, but i'd assume that if I worked out the percentage springback I could make another form the same percentage smaller than the final diameter and bend it to that. It's some simple damn maths but i'm not really in the mood to do any heavy thinking at the minute.

Bit disappointed about the ring roller since I was hoping to get the holes stuck in around the rim, but I wanted to know how high I should make them to fit the hooks on right, which required the tension hoop to be made. No such thing as a quick job...

Oh yeah, i'm also wondering if there's any sort of clever graphic to put on the peghead. It's not really necessary but I'd still like to stick something there. Can't think of anything that wouldn't either be boring (like my name) or get old fast.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #281 on: July 29, 2015, 07:52:55 PM »
Those shoes look really nice!  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #282 on: July 31, 2015, 04:21:10 PM »

Welded the ring closed. Using a regular rod on stainless, I did a test first and found that it did produce a surprisingly strong but extremely brittle weld. So I butt welded the ring. But it needed some adjustment to get it to properly fit around the rim, since bending it to the form wasn't perfect. Anyways I tried bend the weld even though I should've known better.


I had a plan to drill holes and screw a joining piece of mild steel across, but I guess it's common knowledge that free-hand drilling 304 stainless isn't worth trying. I got one and a half holes in, the second hole drifted and got mangled. So I just welded the joining bit of steel on instead. It's perhaps a bit wider than it needs to be so i'm going to have to make an extra wide tailpiece to hide it.


Anyways once I had the hoop on I could measure about where to put the shoes, so I drilled the holes in.


The hoop needed notching. I think if I ever had to do this again i'd just buy a tension hoop. They sell for about £30-40 and considering the price of the metal itself, the silver solder you'd need to do a proper joint, and the files that'll be considerably less sharp by the end of it all...

Or i'd at least buy a softer metal.


Anyways after giving the hoop a brush with the wire wheel (that came on a bench grinder and I had every intention to get rid of it once i'd gotten around to buying a wheel to replace it, but i've since found it incredibly useful) I installed the rim hardware to make sure it fits.


All seems good. I need to rout the base of the neck to give space for the rim, but i'm going to need to fuss with router bits again for that. I'm a little scared about routing endgrain, especially with the edge banding. After that there's the tailpiece to make, and then sticking the shellac on. And unless I forgot something, then everything after that will probably count as 'setting up'. So hopefully I should have it all done by the end of THIS weekend.

Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #283 on: July 31, 2015, 05:19:37 PM »
Love banjo music, and have very much enjoyed watching this build. Can't wait for the first tune you play on it! You know you have to play a song and do a video of it, fight?

Chuck
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Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #284 on: July 31, 2015, 05:59:05 PM »
Love banjo music, and have very much enjoyed watching this build. Can't wait for the first tune you play on it! You know you have to play a song and do a video of it, fight?

Chuck

The worst part is that i'm probably going to also have to sing. I think i've gotten fairly okay at singing but i'm terrified to record myself just in case it's all a delusion.

Still thinking about what to play. I've got a default tune I play all the damn time and everyone is sick of hearing, so if all else fails i'll end up playing that.

What i'm most excited to see though is the statistics for the video. I've heard a few people talk about how building an instrument holds people's interest, but the moment they start playing to demonstrate it the majority of people close the video.


Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #285 on: July 31, 2015, 06:43:15 PM »
Not to worry, we have watched your creativity bloom, watched your problems and how you overcame them. If you played chopstix, I'd be tickled to hear it and tickled for you!
Carry on! We're waiting, but no pressure...
Oh, don't s-pose you can play "Dueling Banjos...", sorry, being in Tennessee, I had to ask...

Chuck
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #286 on: July 31, 2015, 06:58:11 PM »
Delusion is what makes some ordinary people great!
And I wouldn't worry about the vocals I have a mute button   :D I have enjoyed following your build!

Offline micktoon

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #287 on: July 31, 2015, 07:17:07 PM »
All looking good to me Simon  :bow: :thumbup: :thumbup: . Its certainly looking like a banjo now, if it sounds as good as it looks all will be well  :clap:

  Cheers Mick

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #288 on: July 31, 2015, 07:46:04 PM »
Not to worry, we have watched your creativity bloom, watched your problems and how you overcame them. If you played chopstix, I'd be tickled to hear it and tickled for you!
Carry on! We're waiting, but no pressure...
Oh, don't s-pose you can play "Dueling Banjos...", sorry, being in Tennessee, I had to ask...

Chuck

I can play the first couple of riffs of dueling banjos but that's about it. It's funny that, despite being a classic, it's not a song you hear as much as the other classics (cripple creek, foggy mountain breakdown,). I always wonder if it's because it's gotten a reputation as being 'the banjo song' from Deliverance. It's a shame because it is a neat tune. Weird movie though, i'm still not sure what I think of it.

All looking good to me Simon  :bow: :thumbup: :thumbup: . Its certainly looking like a banjo now, if it sounds as good as it looks all will be well  :clap:

  Cheers Mick

Speaking of delusional, I think regardless of how it sounds i'm probably going to think it's great. I guess I did always feel that tone was subjective...

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #289 on: August 01, 2015, 01:21:09 AM »
This has been and continues to be a very interesting build. I have enjoyed following along reading of your triumphs and mistakes - then the most interesting bit of how you got around your mistakes. Curiosity got the better of me so off to the original post. It was 22nd March so you have kept a lot of us enthralled for nigh on 5 months. Congratulations on the build so far and I am sure it will be great to see the completed job.
John B 
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #290 on: August 01, 2015, 06:45:23 PM »
Looking damn good, Simon!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #291 on: August 01, 2015, 08:10:12 PM »
Got the frets in.


Was putting them in with a mallet at first but put some nice dunts into the fretboard. I've heard of a secret technique to return dents in wood by steaming it with a damp towel and an iron, so i'll give that a try. No sense doing it now though since i'll probably manage to put a few more in.


I put a couple of brass dots at the 12th fret position. I was pretty pleased with how they looked. I think the 12th fret should be the only one i'll need marked, since the 5th fret is fairly obvious on a banjo, and the rest of the frets are easy to guess from their relation to the 5th and 12th. Not that I ever often play beyond the 5th.


A brief window into my disgusting lifestyle.


Where I routed to accommodate the hoop naturally routed right into the middle of one of the fret slots. If I was smart I would've measured to avoid this, but I was fussing with the ideal bridge position at the time I was slotting the frets. I'm still fussing about the ideal bridge position.

I also chipped out a bit of the edge banding, which shouldn't be hard to replace. It's something I fully expected to happen, and I was carefully approaching it on the router table to try reduce the full on sideways cutting force. But it was the moment after it chipped out that I realised I should've just cut it out with a chisel before routing the rest.


I also put a few gouges in the side while filing the fret ends down. I got into a bit of a hurry since my back was hurting from all the stooping over, but I wanted this done before tomorrow, so I wasn't as careful as I should've been. And of course the biggest gouges had to end up right on my lovely dots.

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #292 on: August 01, 2015, 08:18:20 PM »
This has been and continues to be a very interesting build. I have enjoyed following along reading of your triumphs and mistakes - then the most interesting bit of how you got around your mistakes. Curiosity got the better of me so off to the original post. It was 22nd March so you have kept a lot of us enthralled for nigh on 5 months. Congratulations on the build so far and I am sure it will be great to see the completed job.
John B

Jesus. It's been longer than 5 months since I started this too. I'd like to think i'd be able to make one alot faster if I had to do it again.

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #293 on: August 02, 2015, 02:58:53 AM »
Quote  " It's been longer than 5 months since I started this too. I'd like to think I'd be able to make one a lot faster if I had to do it again."
 Yeah, well you have been learning a lot, 'on the fly,' as the saying goes so now you must know a lot of what not to do. Plus you did not just make a banjo but half the machinery to do it. Have a pat on the back from me.  :thumbup: :bow: I'd offer you a beer ( :beer:) but you might put more dings in the thing, have a coffe instead.  :coffee:
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline AdeV

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #294 on: August 02, 2015, 06:02:02 AM »
Dings and bumps add character... besides, when you're showing it off to people, you'll point out all the little flaws & they'll still be agog that you made your own banjo. From scratch. I certainly am, and I've made enough dings bumps & cockups on stuff I've made to be much more blasé about it these days.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline mattinker

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #295 on: August 02, 2015, 06:20:25 AM »
I'm a big fan of your threads, you have a great attitude towards making things!

You cannot not make a video of you playing your own banjo, don't feel you have to sing, but I'd love to hear what it sounds like!

Thanks again for another great thread, regards, Matthew

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #296 on: August 03, 2015, 06:43:15 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments.

I spent the whole day from the moment I got up to now in the garage making the tailpiece. It's such a dorky little thing but it's still taking a stupid amount of time.



Still not finished and all kinds of wonky. It's 'blued' by heating it up with a torch, which is probably fairly obvious in this photo with the spots overheated and underheated visible. I'm more hoping that it'll offer a bit of rust protection more than anything.

It's based off of some stupid tailpiece called the Fults tailpiece that comes up in every google search. I think it's a stupid design that claims to solve a problem that doesn't need solving (that it can't rock side to side, which a regular tailpiece can't either, and that it's 'isolated from the tension hoop' which it isn't since its holding onto the tension hooks. It's probably even worse in that regard, not that it's a problem to begin with), but it is also a very wide design that hides the funky tension band without looking too stupid.

Still need to trim the nut, which shouldn't take long. But I'll probably be able to get it stringed up and tested tomorrow, although i've got a fairly busy day till 6pm.

Don't think I said but I had a busy weekend too. I feel I would've had the thing done by now otherwise.

Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #297 on: August 03, 2015, 07:28:50 PM »
Frazer, you've gotten me in a pickle! I've been wracking my brain trying to find the name of a song I wanted to suggest to you to play on the finished Banjo. I believe it was on a cassette I used to play driving to and from work when I needed to decompress (in other words, I'd had a crappy day). I can't find the cassette. I had nearly wore it out and the cassette was beginning to make a terrible squeaking noise when played. I really liked the music on that cassette, and was looking for a way to transfer the music to CD. Now, I can't find it! I can hear the tune in my head! But I can't find it online, and I can't remember the title. It was a slow tune, and I think it was from a hit movie. maybe a western... Bugger, I won't sleep much tonight with that tune in my head!

Chuck
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #298 on: August 03, 2015, 07:38:33 PM »
Do you know any of the words?

Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Banjo Build
« Reply #299 on: August 03, 2015, 09:00:58 PM »
No words, the tape was all instrumentals.

Chuck
Chuck in E. TN
Famous TN last words: "Hey ya'll, watch this..."
MicroMark 7x14, HF X2 mill, Green 4x6 saw. Harbor Freight 170A mig