Author Topic: Diesel cars  (Read 41211 times)

Offline DavidA

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Diesel cars
« on: May 03, 2015, 10:48:31 AM »
Just wondered how many of us run Diesel cars ?

I do,  Most recent is a Peugeot 206 HDi.  Haven't run a petrol car for years,  2006 to be exact.

And,  those who do,  how many make their own biodiesel ?

Dave.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 12:17:29 PM »
Had a diesel from 2006.....
Mondeo 2.0 diesel Titanium estate, a Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 Diesel Ecoflex Estate, ( had that 4 months from new....pos :coffee:) Mondeo 2.0 diesel Zetec estate, currently running a 13 plate VW Passat 2.0 diesel estate....

Can't use bio, car under warranty.....
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Offline wgw

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 12:28:25 PM »
I have always ran diesels, well for about 40 yrs. Present is a corsa van, turbo. last year my wifes car, diesel and nearly new, had some expensive repairs , I could not do myself, sensors etc. So her new one is a small petrol engine. I reckon the running costs are maybe less than the diesel. I won't be buying another small diesel, just not worth the bother. If and when I have another old landy then it will be different. I have made bio-diesel but only on a small scale as an experiment, reacting the veg. oil with soda. It works fine in basic motors eg. old tractor. I would check very carefully before use in a modern car with all the sensors etc., also some seals etc. react badly. Great for cleaning tho.!

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 12:34:49 PM »
Been on Diesels from about 1984,

Historically 7 trucks and 6 cars, with the exception of two early ones, Sherpa diesels, all have or are on Peugeot engines.

Current drives are Fiat Ducatto, five years old 72,000 on the clock and a Peugeot 308 estate on 61 plate so just over 3 years old with 91,000 on the clock.
No bio diesel, don't have time or want the mess involved, these vehicles earn far more working than any saving made by using home made diesel.
John Stevenson

Offline awemawson

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 01:21:15 PM »
Every vehicle I own is diesel. After all back in the 1990's we were positively encouraged to use diesel by the government as more diesel can be squeezed out of crude oil per barrel than the higher octanes like petrol.

Only petrol consumers that I have are chain saws, a small generator and a cement mixer - not counting the numerous lawn mowers and motorised scythes.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 02:38:37 PM »
Hi there, all,

A few months ago I received an email from the RAC.  Basically their message was that they now have an on-line version of Glass's Guide and would I like to try it?

So I went to the web page and entered my registration number.  It told me (correctly) that my (our) car is an X-reg (2000) Citroen Xantia turbo diesel estate.

The web-site then prompted me to enter my mileage, so I keyed in 216,500.  (It's currently almost 218,000.)

The web-site thought for a moment and then asserted that, if it were in showroom condition, our car value/price  would be £114. 

If, on the other hand, it were in average condition, its value/price would be, wait for it, £1 !!!   :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:  :doh: 
It's also worth £1 if it's in 'poor' condition! 

My first diesel car was a Citroen Bx diesel hatchback, bought in 1987, the only car I've ever owned from new.  That had to go when I was made redundant.  By 1997 my fortunes had recovered enough for me to buy a used Ford Escort diesel estate. 
That was followed soon after 2000 by a used Peugeot 405 diesel estate.  That soon got tired (sunshine roof problems among others) so we bought a low-ish mileage Citroen Bx diesel estate. 
I got deceived by a bad water leak on that one and the engine blew up - I'm very embarrassed about that!   :doh:   :doh:   :doh: 

Then, in about 2005/6 we bought the Xantia, at that time it had about 160,000-ish miles on the clock.

My understanding has always been that in a petrol engine to get the ignition flame to fill the combustion chamber, the fuel/air mixture has to be inefficiently rich.  Whereas, with a diesel, the spray of finely atomised fuel is injected into air that is ALL already hotter than the flash-point so the fuel has no choice but to burn!  All of it!!

But in recent years, the private motorist has been pilloried on grounds of 'particulate emissions'.  I've bicycled in heavy rush hour traffic and been stuck at traffic-lights behind a bus with a belching 4" exhaust!  I've also heard tales of trucks being tweaked to get them through the MOT emissions test and then un-tweaked once the pass-certificate is in-hand!  So I have my own suspicions as to whose particulate emissions predominate.  When I was sent on a value engineering course many years ago, we were taught the slogan 'Hit the high cost areas first!'.  But in politics, it's 'aim for the soft targets!'

(/rant)   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 03:02:51 PM »
Been using sludge-gulpers since 1992.

First being a Ford Orion ( Company car, absolute junk. )
Then a Vauxhall Astra, another company car, did 93,000 faultless.
VW Passat Estate, mine.
VW Golf Estate, mine again.
Vauxhall Astra 1.7TD Estate, just gone.
Now have a new Subaru Forester, 2.0D XC.

Do use petrol in my Mantis cultivator though ... and have a gas fag-lighter ...  :thumbup:
and a Sievert Propane torch ....

Dave

EDIT   'Fag-Lighter ' as in the UK version ie. Cigarette Lighter. Not anything else that may spring to the mind of any North Americans ...  :palm:
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Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 03:32:31 PM »
Pete w,

I've had two Bxs. Liked them both.  only problem was the nightmare hydraulic suspension. It can be a potential killer. I still have a set of front to rear hydraulic pipes in their original Citroen packages. If you hear of anyone needing a set let me know.

I've always had Diesel cars with some derivative of the Peugeot XUD engine. I have found them pretty bullet proof, EXCEPT if you get a water leak.
They have always run well for me on home made biodiesel. And making it isn't so messy if you're careful. The savings can be quite substantial.  As the fuel prices are going back up again I am considering getting back in the game.
But there is a problem.  The 206 is a common rail engine. And I understand that common rail engines need VERY clean fuel.
So I will have to save my bio for the old Citroen.  That one isn't nearly as fussy.
The 206 is a three door anyway.  So I won't be keeping it long.  Only bought it because it was going to be scrapped while it still had six months test on it.

Dave.

Just found this.  Had to pass it on;  it's classic.

Remember,  if you have more than one geek in a room,  it's classed as too many.

http://www.206info.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/printertopic=1/t=14304/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

Offline smiffy

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 03:52:05 PM »
I have had diesels for years Currently have a VW T5  with 100,000 miles Toyota landcruiser 250.000 mile so just about run in and unimog 1300l with 3000 hours on the clock .I used to run a old peugeot in france on a mixture or rape seed oil brought from a local farmer in 205 litre drums and diesel worked ok but smelt like a chip shop. I dont think I would run a modern common rail engine on anything except the correct fuel far too many sensors and particle filters to go wrong. Mike

Offline Eugene

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2015, 04:06:49 PM »
We've had three diesel Skoda Octavias thus far; dropped the first two after 100,000+ miles as minor niggles started to show up (never with the mill). The latest is an all electric everything model, auto box, and gives around 55 to the gallon overall. Chuffed. When we chopped in the last one the guy gave us quite a fair price for it; he has a contact in Brum who buys clean and tidy high mileage diesels and sells them to the Pakistani / Indian taxi boys. It went off his books in 24 hours!

My mate Simon is yer actual Range Rover hot shot mechanic, really knows his stuff and is in high demand. One of his clients in the Black Country is the owner of a string of Chinese restaurants who passes him all the used cooking oil by way of a gift. He's got his own Disco running on it as sweet as a nut, but with what industrial chemists refer to as a "characteristic odour". Every time he turns up on shooting days it's "Two chicken chow miens and a special flied lice please!"

We also have a petrol 4WD Subaru Forester for getting around the hills in the winter and transporting gundogs in soggy places; does 28 -30 mpg on a good day. Not so b******g chuffed, but the Skodas would get stuck on a damp cricket pitch, so needs must.

Eug





Offline philf

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2015, 04:22:17 PM »
I'm on my first diesel - a Focus Titanium Estate 1.6 TDCI which replaced a petrol Focus 2.0 I Ghia estate.

On a 150 mile round trip to Lancaster I get around 65 mpg. Even towing our touring caravan I get 37mpg. This is around 50% more than I got with the petrol engined version.

The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240.

I'm a happy bunny and I won't be trying used chip oil in it.

Phil.
Phil Fern
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2015, 04:41:22 PM »
If you are using a basic agricultural diesel engine with no frills then I don't think there much risk running biodiesel. However a modern diesel made to closer tolerances and certainly 'common rail' engines it's a risk not worth the benefit. Bio can gum up rings and injectors. Considering the cost of repairs to modern engines why risk it.

My son has just had a fuel issue with his 2006 Range Rover Vogue TD V8  - apparently needs a new injector pump, two turbos and the catalytic converter. Repair bill estimated at £8000  :bugeye: And that's running on pump diesel  :bang:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2015, 06:07:59 PM »
Phil,
..The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240...

£20 per year. :bugeye:

How did you manage that ?  My 1.5 Citroen Saxo Diesel cost,  if I remember, £146.

(I'll check on that and come back if wrong.)

Dave.

edit £145 per year.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 12:34:53 PM by DavidA »

Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2015, 06:20:40 PM »
Andrew,

As the turbos are only air pumps I don't think their demise will be related to what kind of fuel is used.

As for bio use.  A lot depends upon whether you are actually using proper biodiesel (a methyl ester derived from veg oil) or what some companies sell as biodiesel but is really a blend of veg oil and some additive.

And if an 'agricultural' engine will run happily on bio whist returning virtually the same fuel figures for much less than half the cost of DERV,  why change to an all singing/dancing electronic version just to get another 5 mpg ?

My Citroens always pass the emissions test well within the limits on 50/50 bio.

Dave


Offline Pete49

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2015, 11:56:45 PM »
Been using oil burners since early '80's (Toyota landcruisers) and now have 2 Mercedes W123 oilers and nice to drive as well. I used to 50/50 and in summer 75/25 (veg/diesel). Now veg oil has gone up price wise I just use straight diesel again.
Pete
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Offline philf

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 02:32:51 PM »
Phil,
..The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240...
£20 per year. :bugeye:
How did you manage that ?  My 1.5 Citroen Saxo Diesel cost,  if I remember, £146.
(I'll check on that and come back if wrong.)
Dave.
edit £145 per year.

Dave:



I've just checked what it would have been for my previous car - £290!

Online calculator: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-vehicle-tax-rates

Phil.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:23:21 PM by philf »
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 02:52:12 PM »
It is wise to have the injection pump fitted with Viton seals if using bio-diesel.

My peugeot runs true B 100  bio-diesel most of the time and it required the seals in the pump changing over from Nitrile to Viton last summer after a seal failed.

Also fuel hoses should be checked for compatibility and changed to a bio proof version if needs be....OZ.
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Offline modeng200023

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 03:18:25 PM »
My Mercedes B class has zero road tax!


Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2015, 04:31:06 PM »
Phil,

I ran my Saxo through the same process.  I did it do first registered in 2001,  and it's true first register year of 2000.

And got.

Vehicle
    CITROEN Saxo Saxo 1.5 D, M5
12 month cost
    £130.00
    Monthly cost: £11.38 – total: £136.50
6 month cost
    £71.50
    or £68.25 if renewing automatically by Direct Debit
Date of first registration
    9/2001
Tax band
    E
Engine capacity (cc)
    1527
Transmission
    Manual
Fuel type
    Diesel
CO2
    138
Euro standard
    3
Tax class
    49

That huge difference in cost is down to 34 PPM of particulates.
The annoying thing is that my car doesn't have this particulate emission when it is on bio.  But that doesn't count.

I should add it was taxed last July,  before the change in the regulations. That would explain the discrepancy  between £145 that I payed and £130 as in the list.

But I would brace yourself for a big hike in motoring cost if Cameron gets back in. He has promised not to raise so many things that motorists will look even more inviting.


Dave

Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2015, 04:36:22 PM »
MODENG,

But what year is it ?

Dave.

Offline philf

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2015, 04:37:55 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913674/Council-charge-diesel-car-drivers-extra-100-park-outside-homes.html

Which numpty has dreamt this one up?

Cars parked outside homes don't create air pollution - it's only when you drive them.

A quote from the article: "Taxi drivers, plumbers, builders, and anyone who uses their vehicle in their business will be exempt from paying the tax"

So those who do huge mileages (and are possibly more likely to have the emissions tweaked before and after an MOT) are exempt?

Wonderful.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline DavidA

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2015, 04:45:36 PM »
Yeah,

All the above,  except taxis, work through the day and park up at night. Those who only use the car to go to work then park up get to pay to park at night at home. Those who run around all day don't.

Must be a London thing.

Dave

Offline Arbalist

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2015, 04:47:50 PM »
From a recent report:



Carmakers Braced For European Crackdown on Diesel Vehicles

The French government, which owns about 15 per cent of carmakers Renault and PSA Peugeot Citroën, has pledged to “progressively” ban from 2015 diesel vehicles — which account for two- thirds of car sales in the country and almost two-thirds of Renault and Peugeot’s European sales.The November announcement by Prime Minister Manuel Valls — in which he admitted the promotion of diesel cars had been a “mistake” — was followed last month by a promise from Paris mayor Anne Hidalgo to ban these vehicles from the city by 2020.

France’s stance highlights a big shift taking place in the European debate over vehicle pollution. For a decade or more, policy makers have focused on targets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, and this prompted carmakers to invest heavily in diesel vehicles because they emit less CO2 than the petrol equivalents.

But now the focus is turning to air quality, which raises far-reaching questions about the viability of diesel vehicles. This is because they emit harmful pollutants such as nitrogen oxide that can cause serious respiratory problems.

Cities are under pressure from the European Commission to tackle pollution. Studies from the International Council on Clean Transportation, a research body, and King’s College, part of the University of London, have highlighted the scale of emissions from diesel vehicles and linked them to as many as 60,000 deaths a year in the UK.

London has vowed to act on these findings. Under plans for an “ultra low emission zone” in the city, the capital’s traffic congestion charge would be almost doubled for older diesel vehicles by the end of the decade, and Islington council is set to introduce a parking fee for the most-polluting cars — “to encourage a move away from diesel vehicles”. (See below)

Cities in Norway have discussed similar anti-diesel measures.

Shadow Environment Minister: We Messed up Switching Motorists to Diesel

Attempts made by the previous Labour government in the U.K. to get millions of people to switch from petrol cars to diesel vehicles in order to "save" the planet was a mistake, Barry Gardiner, shadow Environment Minister has admitted. "Hands up - there's absolutely no question that the decision we took was the wrong decision. But at that time we didn't have the evidence that subsequently we did have," Gardiner said during an episode of Channel Four's Dispatches, called "The Great Car Con."

At least ten million Britons are driving diesel cars, a trend which was encouraged by tax breaks by Gordon Brown back when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer. Brown said back in 1998 that diesel vehicles will attract less vehicle tax than petrol options due to their "better CO2 performance." Brown reduced vehicle tax for all vehicles with low CO2 emissions in 2001, giving company car buyers, responsible for half of new purchases, a reason to make the switch.

The policy was a response to the 1997 Kyoto treaty, which was created to cut greenhouse gases. "It was right to move away from vehicles that push out CO2, but the impact is a massive public health problem," said Gardiner. "The real tragedy is after we set up the committee on the medical effects of air pollution and it reported back in 2010 we've had five years that this government has done nothing about it."

Government ministers were warned more than 20 years ago of the risks, according to Professor Roy Harrison, professor of environmental health at the University of Birmingham. "I chaired an advisory committee in 1993 who was advising government on urban air quality issues and we recognized that there might be future problems associated with the increasing uptake of diesel passenger cars," said Harrison, according to The Independent.

The documentary will also show how drivers are exposed to higher levels of diesel pollutants than cyclists and pedestrians. "When people are in cars if they've got windows closed and the air conditioning on, they probably think that they are actually immune from the emissions from the vehicles in front of them and in reality that's not the case because the gases penetrate so easily that they will get into the cabin of the vehicle and depending on the ventilation of that cabin they may actually build up to much higher concentrations," said Professor Frank Kelly, Chair of the Committee for the Medical Effects of Air Pollution, according to The Independent.

 

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Diesel cars
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 04:50:43 PM »
I was always under the impression that "road tax" was used to repair & build the roads
At least the new super low emission vehicles don't damage the road surface  :Doh: :Doh: :Doh: