Author Topic: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission  (Read 20220 times)

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« on: May 16, 2015, 06:02:05 PM »
Hi Everyone,

My name is John, (another one!!) I have been joined the forum for some time but have only occasionally posted replies to others threads

So heres the saga of the Colchester lathe I bought a couple of years ago but am only now getting it up and running now due to various and protracted reasons  :bang:
I have it running from an inverter, more of which later on.
When I got it running and was working my way through the gears when on engaging one of the high range a knock started   :(.
I quickly shut it down and went about searching for the problem, it soon was obvious that the gearbox input drive pulley was loose on the spindle, both spindle and pulley + keyways were damaged !!

I spent some time searching on the net looking for any information, blogs or videos on how to take the clutch shaft out of the gearbox for repair, I found only one youtube video but the guy took the video after he had it all back together  :scratch: and a photo of a page which showed a little more than the drawings in the handbook

Hopefully what will follow will help anyone else who may need to repair their Triumph 2000 lathe ???
Of course I found several further problems as I dug into the gubbins  :bugeye:
(I took some of the photos later as I had not planned this posting at the strip down stage)

To get at the inner end of the input/clutch the splashguard and cover over the mechanical brake needs to be removed, Then remove the brake drum and its workings
Theres a large plug with an extension that forms part of the centrifugal brake (?) that has to be removed to access an allen screw and large washer that keeps the spindle in place.
Third pic shows how I removed the plug, it has a 3/8 UNC thread in the centre.
Remove the allen screw in the spindle centre with the large washer, Dont lose the bronze thrust washer !!
Remove the 3 allen screws from the seal housing inside the pulley, the housing has 2, 1/4unc threaded holes which act as a puller when 2 of the screws are threaded into them, once the seal housing frees the main casting  the spindle can be removed !

More to follow
Regards
John

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2015, 07:02:54 PM »
Hi All,

Of course I forgot to mention that I removed the gear selectors and their mounting, dont lose the detent plungers and springs :bang:
When the clutch spindle has been removed , what happens?
One or both clutches and the thick washer between them fall to the bottom of the
Gear casing !!
Another thick washer with countersunk inner fits with the countersink towards the shoulder at the ball bearing end
To get some room to fish out the clutches for inspection and to aid reassembly later on
I needed to move/ remove the spindle (G) that has the brake drum fitted.
Prise out the oil seal at the brake drum end and remove the bearing circlip
Remove the blanking cap from the drive pulley end and tap the spindle end until the bearings clear the housing, then lift the spindle clear as in photo
Its a fiddly job to accomplish without further dismantling but it can be done with a little patience

The original spindle/ pulley diamater was 1.062in. this one had almost 0.040 wear at the outer end  :doh:
After some research and thought I arrived at the conclusiuon that the most convenient repair would be to source a pulley with 1.000in inner diamater, The local bearing shop had one for me next day, its a taper lock type and uses a 1/4in. wide keyway
A friend of mine is a very good welder and has the same welder as "Doubleboost" ,
He ran a bead along the damaged side of the keyways
I set the spindle up between centres on my old lathe, it ran true at the bearing surfaces :beer:
After machining to size, I set it up on the milling machine to cut /enlarge the keyway to 1/4in

When I remove the clutches I found that the clutch selector fork was "toast"  :doh:
How I made a new one in the next post

John


Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 06:59:57 PM »
Hi All,
150+ views and no comments or responces  :scratch:

As the old clutch fork was worn to death and had previously been built up with braze,
I needed to make a new one,
The arm that operates the fork/clutches moves in an arc, so the fork must be able to move up and down in its slot as the arm operates
I measured the distance between the operating arm and the clutch engaging boss, then finding a suitable piece of phosphor bronze just the right size in the "come in handy" box, I set it up 5mm off centre in the 4 jaw chuck and machined it as in the photos
I took a light cut to mark the highest point on the outer diamater where the pivot pin would be fitted before parting the piece off.
I marked where the pin was going to go and drilled to suit the 3/8in. pin, and milled a small flat area around the pin hole
I then set the piece in the vice and centered it up, I set up a boring head to the diamaters then off set the piece + and -  0.040in and bored the hole and outer shoulder eccentric, then reversed it to do the other side
Then cut the fork off in the mill

I silver soldered in the pivot pin and triall fitted the fork  :(
I did not have enough eccentricity to allow the fork travel the required distance
So a further setup to increase the eccentricity was needed, as in the photos, another 0.020 either siide was enough !!

To refit the parts !!!
The engagement boss must first be sat on the gearbox floor,
then the fork is fitted in place by removing the clutch operating arm from the outside of the lathe allowing the inner arm to pivot further towards the drive pulley end of the gearbox
Wriggle the fork and boss into place into the pivot arm,
Fit the chuck end clutch assembly into place and bring the fork and boss up to meet it,
Make sure the inner ramps line up with the clutch rollers and pop the boss onto the clutch and engage the clutch, it should all stay in place
Grease the thrust washer that fits between the clutches and stick it in place to the clutch already fitted
the pulley end clutch and gear can now be wriggled into the casing and the drive spindle fitted from the outside,
Line up the inner ramps with the clutch rollers before engaagine the spindle into the splines
All going well the drive spindle should slide all the way through easily
Then fit the bronze thrust washer, the steel washer with pin and the allen screw
I used some threadlock fluid on this screw.
The plug with the centrifugl brake centre can then be refitted and the retaining grubscrew tightened

The next post will be about repairing the drum brake which had suffered from someone with size 14 boots :doh:

John

Offline micktoon

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 08:10:25 PM »
Good post well presented  :thumbup: , Keep up the good work  :clap: ,
 Cheers Mick

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 02:21:33 AM »
Interesting stuff and you are obviously making good progress.

One comment I'd make is that your pictures are too large - makes viewing quite a problem as once one is scrolled to see it in bits the scroll bars for the others vanish :( this means I've just been seeing one or two per post. 640x480 is a universally good size with very adequate detail.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 06:41:12 AM »
 Hi All,
HI Andrew,
Point taken on the picture size, even though they seem reasonably sized when viewed on my desktop
I had reduced the image size as small as the digital camera would allow, I will resize them further down on the pc before adding the next  episode
It would seem I bought a machine which led a fairly hard life  :doh:
Although the main or expensive end of things look ok so far, ie all the gears are good,
I rebuilt the main motor with new bearings and the tensioner for the oil pump drive belt
It sounds a much quiter now  :thumbup:
I am adding a filter unit between the pump and gearbox, and today hope to be powering up the machine again

Thanks for the responces
John


Offline DavidA

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 06:51:40 AM »
John,

..150+ views and no comments or responces   :scratch:..

This is probably because the Triumph 2000 is an industrial machine and very few here will have one at home.  So they can't easily relate to it.

I did use one on an almost daily basis at my last place of work and found it to be a very good machine. I particularly liked being able to simply pull up the clutch lever to engage reverse when I was cutting metric threads.

Only problem I can see with it is that the chucks are very heavy and grow more so as you get older.

No problem at work as I just asked one of the younger guys to lift them for me;  Why else are they there ?

Dave.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2015, 07:37:26 AM »
OK it's a big lathe, but it's only like my Master 2500 that's been on a course of steroids  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2015, 08:41:52 AM »
NOTE TO SELF:

I do enjoy reading other people's posts, even (especially!?!?) when they describe machines I couldn't in a million years own myself or that I could never get into my 12' by 8' workshop.

Therefore, I must remember to post rather than lurk - after all, I like it when Mad Modders comment on my own posts, it's an encouragement.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2015, 08:45:55 AM »
yup, pics too large discourage many of us from following and while I used to try to help reduce them to forum recommendations (800 pix wide or smaller) it just got too time consuming to do for people who didn't read up on what is appropriate. Also a commercial sounding nic makes it seem a commercially motivated project (even if it isn't) and may discourage feedback. Not a criticism, just reality of how things may be perceived.

It looks like a deep and good project, and I'm sure will be of interest to those involved in lathes of this type. Glad that you are posting a project of your own, and keep going. Takes awhile for people to get to know you sometimes.  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline micktoon

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2015, 03:50:30 PM »
Hi  John , this thread on the migwelding forum might be of interest, some one has just done the filter mod you are talking about. You may have to join the forum ? as I think its in the members only type section?
  Its a quite long thread but shows Colchester triumph 2000 long bed getting moved then worked on, if you have not already seen it I am sure there will be helpful stuff amongst it for you, if you wade through. http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/lathe-swap.53699/ 
  Just on the photo thing, I know there are pro's and cons but I prefer reading posts where the photos are already expanded as mine are that come off my  Photobucket , I know the downside is if they are ever lost or deleted off photo bucket they are gone from the posts too but make reading through things without having to click on photos simpler.

 Cheers Mick

Offline mexican jon

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 12:00:38 AM »
I hate PhotBucket  :bugeye: Basically that site is blocked on our work computers (Offshore) so when I get into reading a really good post and look forward to seeing the results in the flesh so to speak  :bang: I can't and it's just not :lol:
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 03:05:23 AM by mexican jon »
People say you only live once ! I say thank F@*K can't afford to do it twice.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 03:00:25 AM »
But Steve you are a moderator. Mere mortals don't have the ability to edit posts after a certain time has expired.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 10:49:37 AM »
Steve, no I've just checked - it's really only today's posts I can edit - I suspect it gives you 24 hours but that's just a guess
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 11:10:28 AM »
Well, frankly I don't like that kind of thing. But if it exists, then I would be glad to help anybody to fix their posts, or restore pictures if needed. Just PM me. Sorry to have gone so far OT, here, Vintage, btw.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 06:18:33 PM »
Hi All,
Steve,
I wonder if it would be possible to move the photo posting topics to a separate thread?
No worries if its too much trouble

Mick,
I cannot access the migwelding forum
Its an easy enough job to plumb in the filter unit into the plastic tubing from the pump to the top of the gearbox
I need to make a bracket to mount the filter head onto the machine, avoiding all the moving bits inside the end cover, I am using a unit bought from the local hydraulic parts supplier

Dave,
Yes the chucks are heavy !!
I am going to mount an electric hoist on a rail over the lathe to lift them on and off

Pete W,
A man cannot have enough shed space !!, or a big enough lathe  :headbang:

                                                       ---------------------
My other Lathe is an imperial only "Woodhouse and Mitchell" akin to one on this website, http://www.premiermachinetools.co.uk/
I converted mine to single phase, and upped the speeds by fitting a 2850rpm motor (it had a 3 phase single speed motor)
Since I now work from home being "semi retired" I needed a lathe with metric capabilities as well as imperial
I also looked at a Harrison but the spindle through hole was very small by comparison

One of the common jobs I get asked do is skim brake drums on motorcycle wheels, these can be up to 22in outer diamater

Regards
John



Offline vtsteam

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 08:58:23 PM »
Steve,
I wonder if it would be possible to move the photo posting topics to a separate thread?

Unusual request, John, but sure. Trimmed out a couple of my photo recovery suggestion posts, the rest are I think germaine, helpful to others, and/or aren't mine to move or delete.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline DavidA

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 06:07:20 AM »
About photos,

I like the *.jpg format as it allows me to zoom in on any detail. Can't do this with the Photobucket pics.

Re the chucks.

Also have a similar problem with the Emco milling attachment on my Denford Viceroy 280.  I will have to rig up some kind of block and tackle to remove it.  It can be turned around so it is out of the way,  but looks a bit odd stuck there.

Dave.

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 06:41:25 PM »
Hi Dave,
Yes I dislike photobucket for the same reasons
I was trying posting some reduced size photos bit they still were too big
I will try and solve this over the weekend

John

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2015, 03:03:45 AM »
John I take my pictures at hi resolution then use Windows Paint to reduce them to 640x480 it only takes seconds


Right click the file, open with Paint, 'resize' tab to pixels, set 640 x 480 then save with a meaningful name as a jpg
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DavidA

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2015, 06:57:33 AM »
I should add that I use Fuji Finepix Viewer to re-size my pictures; always saving a copy at the original resolution. The software came with my camera.

Dave.

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2015, 07:07:27 AM »
   FastStone Photo Resizer  is just the ticket  :thumbup:

http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm

Rob

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2015, 10:42:24 AM »
Like Rob, I also use Faststone Resizer - it does a lot more than just resizing and is very easy to use.  And it's free!!!! :D   :D   :D 
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2015, 02:35:38 PM »
Hi All,
On Friday I set about repairing the damaged brake on the Colchester   
This lathe is the type with mechanical brake operated from the foot bar
The shoes were damaged at the ends and one was cracked !
The shoe pivot was sheared off where it screws inth the gearbox housing, luckily the broken piece was not stuck
The lever stop was also almost sheared !!
Size 14's or what 

I had a pair of relined shoes intended for a Velocette LE mk1 model already relined lying about and saw the possibilities of fitting these,
I also found almost identical to the original shoes from a "British Hub Co." wheel that would have been from probably a James or Dot lightweight motorcycle from the 1950's, but these were in poor shape

As the pivot was damaged I measured up how best to remake it to suit the Velo linings,
I set up the damaged Hexagon piece in the lathe and drilled and tapped it through 1/2UNC
I turned down a piece of 3/4in. round steel to 1/2in. for about  1 3/4in in length and threaded it 1/2 UNC to take the hexagon piece
At the 3/4 diamater I machined a groove down to 1/2in. dia to accept the pivot end of the shoes
then parted it off
I searched around and found some shorter springs as the Colchester ones were too long to hold the velo shoes in place
A 5/16unc allen bolt was cut down to make a new lever stop

When I had it all back together I did some trial "stops" and it seems to work very well   

Lets hope my smaller photos are ok this time ??

Cheers for now
John
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 03:00:03 PM by vintageandclassicrepairs »

Offline Sid_Vicious

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2015, 04:06:28 PM »
Looks great! The job is superb and the pics are perfect. :thumbup:
Nothing is impossible, it just take more time to figure out.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2015, 04:26:51 PM »
Nice to seeing it all coming together, and as Sid says, the pictures are excellent  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 04:12:20 PM »
Hi, All,
This past week has been hectic and time on the lathe refurb very limited, I had most of this work completed more than a week ago but only now have time to post up on progress.

This Colchester lathe was wired with mains 380/440 volt control wiring , Not a good idea when you look at the swarf that had found its way into the control push button box   :zap: :zap:
I am running it from a 240v single phase supply through an inverter
The inverter is housed in a wall mounted panel and has an additional cooling fan /filter which runs when the motor does.  A motor speed control pot is also panel mounted, it or another could be also mounted on the machine if needed, (8 spare cores on the control cable)

I removed the original contactor panel from the lathe, and built a new one to suit 110v control voltage
A 240/110v transformer in the wall panel feeds the control circuit,
I kept the original wiring to the control buttons, so as the lathe could revert to its original configuration if required, (if I get fed up with it and sell it)
The main motor start /stop buttons now switchs a small relay which sends a signal to the inverter to run up/ wind down  the motor,
I modified a latching stop button to fit the lathe front panel, it adds an extra safety margin and also brings it up to date more!
The coolant pump contactor supply is looped from the main motor feed and controlled from its original buttons
Even though the label plate on the pump showed dual voltage, the low voltage winding ends are not brought out to the terminal box  :bang: so it will need some further surgery

I made a bracket to mount the oil filter head in place, time will tell if this is a good enough location, It clears all moving parts ok but I could only get one stud fitted from the bracket to the filter head

Cheers for now
John

Offline Bobsmodels

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2015, 06:37:14 PM »
Hi John

I just saw your post and as I have a 15" Triumph 2000 have found your article very informative.  Mine is working order but the carriage gearbox leaks like a sieve.
Mine is set up with an Impero toolpost system.  If you can find one they are unbelievable in versatility.   I attached a pic of my lathe.  The hoist stays on the toolpost all the time as I cannot lift the chucks.

Bob

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Colchester Triumph 2000 repairs and recomission
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2015, 06:02:20 PM »
Hi Bob,
I have yet to "attack" the carriage gearbox, Time on the project has dried up due to more pressing issues
I drained the carriage gearbox and what came out was pretty manky!! no water though which can be a problem with these lathes as the coolant can find its way in there  :bang:
I poured in a litre or so of kerosene and immedietly it started to leak out the bottom plate joint   :doh:
I put a catch tray underneath and walked away  :(

I have not seen a system like you have before ?? It looks really cool  :clap:
My plan is to fit a gantry over the lathe and use an electric hoist to lift the chucks,
I mostly use a 4 jaw chuck as my work usually involves repairing existing parts which can be clocked up true in it

Best Regards
John