The proposed 'living wage'.

[DavidA]

I returned to work part time (again) recently, and managed to spread a little confusion amongst the machine shop slaves today.

We were talking about the proposed £9 per hour 'living wage' that is supposed to be in place by 2020.
I put it to them ' are you sure that the current differential between what you get now and the current minimum wage, £6.50 per hour will be maintained?
Or are you going to finish up in a situation where the CNC machine operator gets the same money as the lady who cleans the washroom  i.e £9 per hour ?

It would seem logical that the difference (£2.50) would have to be added to the £9 to give £11.50 (minimum)  for the operators.  But will it work like this ?  Would a company relish having to make this change ?

If not,  and £9 per hour is deemed sufficient for a CNC operator,  then they may as well go to Aldi stacking shelves.

How do MadModders think it is going to work ?

Dave

Who won't be working then anyway.

[lordedmond]

Difficult to comment Dave

Not been to work for 16 years, took early retirement

But I do see your point it was bad enough when I did my apprenticeship and my mates went on to the production side they had cash I did not , but it did pay off in the end

Differentials need to be there else there is no incentive to take a skilled job

Stuart

[Bluechip]

Or are you going to finish up in a situation where the CNC machine operator gets the same money as the lady who cleans the washroom  i.e £9 per hour ?

If the machine operator thinks cleaning washrooms for £9 per hour is a better deal than he currently has there is nothing to stop him changing jobs ... 

Dave

[Jonny]

I have seen the gaps close over the years and expect them to do so in the future.
I would however think its more a case of keeping a job whatever the salary, knowledge or expertise, no one fallable.

[John Swift]

when  the living wage was anounced  ,
I thought great you can do away with all those non productive jobs administrating the tax credits
that top up the current minimum wage
(may be some staff could be used to man the phones so you can start a JSA claim the first day your unemployed
as it is its not worth the hastle taking a 1 day contract that pays the same as  the weekly  £72.40   JSA )

the big question is ,
will the £9.00 per hour  be worth  more   in 5 years time  than £6.70   (plus any tax credits ) will this october ?
I suspect not and you will  of lost more than you will  gain with the living wage

   John

[Brass_Machine]

Please disregard my post.

Please carry on...

[DavidA]

Looks as if this could rumble on for a while.  I'm looking forward to more details on how it will be implemented.

Thanks for the responses.

Dave.

[John Swift]

  Hi David

the devil is always in the detail of the budget Irrespective of which political party is in power
can't help thinking of  the Sir Humphrey Appleby  character  pulling the strings in the  BBC's Yes Minister tv series

 I'm just glad for me , works now optional
inbetween contracts I receive more than the JSA payments
so I sign on just  for the extra NI contributions  to receive the full state pension
as it stands I have enough contributions but you never know if they will increase the number of years contributions needed

you can't trust them –  people now have to work longer before they get the state pension
you never what's the next scheme they will come up with to reduce the governments pension bill

    John

[lordedmond]

To true there John , they are all tarred with the same brush


Stuart

[vintageandclassicrepairs]

Hi All,

you can't trust them –  people now have to work longer before they get the state pension
you never what's the next scheme they will come up with to reduce the governments pension bill

Here in the Emerald Isle, they pulled a stroke a year or two ago, it used to be a person needed a certain total number of contributions to qualify for a full pension,
They then changed it to 30'ths meaning the contributer needed to have contributions in 30 of the years up to pension age, pension is reduced by fractional amounts (1/30) for non contributary years

Remember !!!
No matter who you vote for the governmant still gets elected 

John

[RobWilson]

Hi John , the Emerald isle is rank number one for the place to live , ranked first for Prosperity and Equality 

http://www.goodcountry.org/overall 

Rob

[tom osselton]

Either way they will just take it back in taxes or raised prices, surcharges or whatever else they can think of!

[vintageandclassicrepairs]

HI All,
Rob,
Yes indeed its a great place to live, if you are my age and without debt
God help those young couples trying to get a mortgage and raise a family on the paltry wages being paid if you are lucky enough to be employed
There are tens of thousands of housing units built and more part finished which are in the hands of NAMA
since the bubble burst
These are not being released for sale/rent as NAMA are charged with getting the maximum price, so are sitting on the properties till prices rise
Governments answere is to build more?????? WTF

Imagine how good it would be if we were able to rid ourselves of the thieving scum politicians/bankers

John

[trapper]

Hi,lm a relatively new member (2mths)and am surprised they allow this sort of debate,I must add PLEASANTLY surprised,I dont know the answer but i,ll give you my views right or wrong.Please excuse me if some of my views are incorrect,Im no politician,just a humble working class(when l can get it) man from Newcastle.It looks like more waffle to me,whos to say they will stay be in power when this proposed new minimum wage comes into effect and like someone said £9 will be eaten away by inflation if inflation is 7% a year for next 5yrs thats the increase gone.Honestly they go to these fancy schools and really look down on the working mans intelligence.Im sure there will be a lot of people on this site worked in other countries,countries that you can work hard and get the benefit of your efforts in your pay packet not taken away by the taxman,countries like Holland where in my experience welcome british engineers and pay them well,and maybe l,v been lucky but conditions are much better-theres a saying over there "you cant sack a dutchman" the locals dont like to work long hrs like we have to,to get a decent wage over here,so they have to fetch foreign contracters to Holland to meet deadlines and work overtime.They cant force the locals to work as they are too protected by employment laws-so most just work the basic hrs,spend time with their familys and look forward to retirement,now these figure might not be exact at this time but were accurate 20yrs ago and will not have changed much as their Queen looks after them,so if they are unlucky and find themselfs on the "dole" panick stations here not there,you get,75% of your average wage for your dole money.So they are in no way in hardship-same with pensions,same % of your wage-so pensioners can have holidays,eat well,and enjoy their time after working-check this out and you will find this is correct

[DavidA]

Trapper,

..Hi,lm a relatively new member (2mths)and am surprised they allow this sort of debate,I must add PLEASANTLY surprised,..

This thread was locked not long ago, It was considered an 'edgy' subject. So we need to keep it friendly.

I think things may have changed a bit in Holland over the last twenty year. Let's see, that would make it 1995.

You're probably right about the inflation swallowing up the increase. That's how I see it happening. And the whole thing collapsing in a great mess.

We'll soon know.

Dave.

[Brass_Machine]

...
This thread was locked not long ago, It was considered an 'edgy' subject. So we need to keep it friendly.
...

David is right, I did lock it, granted it was an off the hip decision... reversed after some discussion.  I am happy to see this progressing without any fighting/flaming (since anything political can set off a firestorm). Very proud of the members here!

 

[awemawson]

 Up until now I've steered clear of this discussion as it can potentially be very partisan, with entrenched views.

I am very uneasy to have any government manipulation of either wages or prices, as in any market, be it goods or labour, it distorts what generally would be a system that reaches its own equilibrium.

I can see that in some circumstances businesses will not recruit if artificial barriers are put in place, and on the other hand I also can see that staff need a certain level of remuneration to keep body and soul together. I think that the administrative and financial barriers to employing people stop many small companies taking on youngsters and giving them a start in employment.

Some years back we had a service centre in Holland supporting a limited number of industrial customers who would need our services for a specific period - a few years. In the last couple of years we could not afford to take on new staff as the office would close, and their departure costs would bring the company down. Net result was poorer service and over worked existing staff. If we could have recruited then those new staff would have been trained and able to get better jobs when we closed the office.

[trapper]

Yes if you noticed before l posted l said l was PLEASANTLY surprised this topic was allowed normally l would shy away from any topic concerning politics,football or religion as we all have different views but when l read a few posts on the subject l thought l would reply like it has been said if its correct we will have to wait and see-thats the end of it as far as l,m concerned back to machining its easier (sometimes)

[DavidA]

I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised when this topic was considered to be toxic. I can see why some may say 'well,  that job doesn't deserve so much 'etc. And I don't want to get involved in that. But my concern was that it is a 38% increase for a huge number of people. In these straightened times the company I worked for (still occasionally do) gave 2% increases across the board in three of the last five years; in two on them they didn't get a pay rise at all.
It seems to follow from this that if the next five year follows the same pattern then the most they will get is , say, 10 percent total. Some could easily be leapfrogged.And what about those on state pension ?

It does seem that this has not been thought through at all.

I shall watch the approaching financial circus with some added interest.  No doubt that nice Mr Osbourne has it all worked out.

Dave.

[Brass_Machine]

I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised when this topic was considered to be toxic. ...

Dave.

Not sure about over there, but here State side, there are 2 main camps (on our minimum pay hike). One saying it needs to be done to be fair to everyone. The other saying, if it gets done, people will lose jobs and costs will go up so companies can afford the pay hike. Naturally, politics can create some fired up debates as some people will not listen to the opposing side. Thus erupting into flame wars. I try to head these things off early.

That's all.

As long as it stays civil, I am happy.