Author Topic: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram  (Read 16547 times)

Offline sbwhart

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Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« on: April 24, 2009, 02:28:37 PM »
I've been wanting to make one of these since John excellent thread. In actual fact John kindly offered to make one for me, but today I had a grim choice:- weed the garden or spend the afternoon in the shop:- there was no choice the shop won:- the weeds will have to wait for annihilation another day.

I thought it would be useful for some one else to post a thread, how to go about the job following Johns methodology, but using different Kit and materials.

Link to Johns thread http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=822.0

So here we go

This is the material I used



The DTI came from RDG http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/CLOCKS__DIGITAL___MANUAL.html

First Job clean up the Ally block with a fly cutter







I didn't take a pic of this but I ran a small rad around what was to become the base of the tram with a 1/4 radius slot drill

Next job was to work out some sizes as I wanted to use the Tram for x and y I measured the widest distance across the table.



From this I did myself a crib sheet



And blued the bar and marked out the hole centres and the bits to cut away



The bar is sitting on some slip gauges I'll use these as parallels, if I used normal parallels the drill would hit them as they broke through, but by spacing the slips as shown in the pic it would miss.

This is my set of slip gauges they were given to me by a friend who worked at Roles Royce they were scrapping them off, because they had been used in the machine shop and were out of calibration but were talking an error of 0.00001" thats plenty good enough for me.



The bar was set up in the mill vice the edges of the bar found using my old fag paper trick from this I could centre the drill in the middle of the bar and using coordinates find the hole position the marking out is there just as a check. Then it was centre drilled then 7.5 then followed by the finish size of 8mm



Next job mill out the bit in the middle so that tram would sit on feet.



The centre holes was counter bored to take a counter sunk cap screw.

The bar was then de-burred flipped over 90deg the ends slit with a 2mm slitting saw



Then it was drilled for the clamping screws M4 and one side drilled M4 clearance  to make the clamp work



Tapped on my new tapping table  :D



Well this is it so far not bad for an afternoons work



I'll finish it off tommorow morning  so the weeds will get another short reprieve

Stew


« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 03:01:58 AM by sbwhart »
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline websterz

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 02:36:36 PM »
Judging from the finish on your aluminum block your machine is already in pretty good tram! Good write-up, looking forward to the rest of the story. I guess I better go out and find myself a deal on a pair of matching dial indicators now... :doh:   :thumbup:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 02:44:19 PM »
Looking good so far.

Glad you found an excuse to go to the shop. Did I ever tell you how long.............ah never mind.

Can't wait to see you finish it off. I might even have to make one for my two mills.  :beer:

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 02:48:52 PM »
Looking good there Stew, you are flying now.... :thumbup:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 03:13:17 PM »
Now wasn't that easy.

Very well done.


John

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 03:21:15 PM »
Judging from the finish on your aluminum block your machine is already in pretty good tram! Good write-up, looking forward to the rest of the story. I guess I better go out and find myself a deal on a pair of matching dial indicators now... :doh:   :thumbup:

They got em at HF for $14... I bought mine this weekend with a 10% off coupon.

I will be starting one of these shortly.

Eric
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 03:41:44 PM »
Thanks Chaps

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 03:50:05 PM »
Thanks Chaps

Stew

Oooops... Looking good Stew!

:doh:

Eric
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 03:28:20 PM »
Didn't quite get it finished today the Boss dragged me out shopping for a new bed cover:-

You know how the conversation goes:-

What do think of this one Stewart -
Yes thats Ok -
well what about this one -
yes thats Ok -
or this one -
yes thats Ok":-

after halve an hour of this Stewart's getting P****d off, picks up something hideous he knows the Boss won't like :-

I really like this one Love -
ho its hideous -
but I really like it -
I don't -
well you'd better hurry up and chose something from the hundred we've already looked at or I'll buy this one -
you never take these things serious -
but its a bloody bed cover we'll be asleep under we'll never see it."

 :wack:  :hammer:  :wack:  :hammer:  :wack:

 :lol:  :lol: :lol:

Any way back to the Tram

Next job to fix the centre shaft to the T bar.

The shaft was deeply centred at one end.



At the other end it was turned down a nice fit on the T bar and the centre drilled and tapped M5



To fix the shaft to the T bar high strength loctite was used along with a washer and a counter sunk allen cap screw



Now comes an important part of making the tram. This design of tram gets its accuracy from the base length between the DTI's the longer the base length the more the error is magnified:- and the squareness of the shaft to the T bar.

To get the shaft square to the T bar John turned his shaft off his face plate having first skimmed the face plate up square,

The face plate of my machine being a 3 - 1 with a high throw is huge for what's required and as the machine has no cross slide outo feed I didn't fancy winding the handle manualy across that distance for an hour.

So I decided to use the sacrificial face plate I used to make my loco wheel's this face plate is basically a round chunk of ally I got of ebay.

Other option would be just grip it in the four jaw with the T bar pushed up against the face of the jaws, but this will rely on the acuracy of the jaws and any error would be transfered to the Tram and then onto the mill.



Another option would be to use a piece of bar, grip it in the four jaw face it off and clamp the T bar to this.



To prepare the sacrificial face plate the best position for the T bar was found and hole position roughly marked, one hole was drilled and tapped M8:- Note another use of heavy cast iron cube  :thumbup:



The T bar was clamped to the plate and the position of the second hole spotted through to ensure the holes lined up, the second hole was then drilled and tapped M8



A quick assy to check all is well



The face plate was put in the four jaw and a centre used to help alignment, the shaft was roughly clocked true and the position of the bar on the plate marked this is so I can put it back in the same position and not disturb the plate.



The face plate was skimmed up. In the first shot on the right you can see where the plate hasn't cleaned up this error would have been transfered to the tram, the second shot shows the plate cleaned up





The Tram was clamped back on the plate and the shaft clocked up but this time the only adjustments was done with the play in the clamp screws, to move the plate in the chuck would have lost some of the accuracy.



and her's an action shot of the shaft being turned



Well that's as far as I got

Tomorrow it will be finished that's if the Boss lets me back in the house.
 
Have you a spare room John ???

:lol:

Stew







A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 03:45:34 PM »
Nice way of doing it Stew, more cat skinning.

I am a little worried because you have used the live centre as support. Even if it is only a minute bit out, it will have the potential to make the spindle be cut off line. You are using your faced up plate as the datum, so if you have super sharp HSS tooling, and taking a very fine feed and cut, you can get away without the tailstock support, and guarantee everything is in line. I know it isn't the ideal, but sometimes, needs must allow it.

Just a suggestion.

John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 04:41:46 PM »
OK John tip noted I've only taken the first cut so plenty more to come off

Thanks

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2009, 06:59:30 AM »
John

A big thanks for warning me about the centre, when I took the running centre off the spring in the shaft was immediately apparent, I can remember on your thread showing not using a centre but the significance of this just past me by, if I'd carried on a significant error would have resulted, I hope that others will learn from my near mistake.

Ok so as I'm going to be using the tram with a clarkson type collet holder the centre is important so I cut off the centre using the No 1 parting off tool (haxsaw) refaced and recentred  the shaft.



Finishing the shaft to size 3/8"



A 3/8 BSF thread was die cut onto the shaft to screw into the clarkson 3/8 collet:- sorry no pics

The marking up die and a final debur and the tram was ready to be set up. To do this you simply place the tramp on a flat surface in this case the milling table and simply zero the bezels.



Now I know that my mill is giving a whisper of a back cut when the work is fed in from the left that means the head of the mill is leaning to the left, would the tram show this:-

Yes it did it showed a 0.02 tilt to the left



To adjust this out was simply done by slackening the clamp bolt and adjusting the so that both dials read the same, the Tram showed up its sensitivity as tightening the bolts would move the dials but once I'd appreciated this it was just a simple mater of anticipating this movement.

Both dials reading the same Mill set



Well I think I've made a precision bit of kit thanks to Johns advice and interception worthy of a wooden box with dove tail joints brass hinges and corners, but until then a plastic food box will have to do.



Her it is safely stored away on a shelve for future use.



Its enough to make old Mr Chippendale turn in his grave but it'll make Mr Tupperware happy

Now where are those weeds

Stew


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 07:04:42 AM »
Stew, Bogs, anyone..... :ddb:


To check how accurate the tramming tool is, can you zero the two dials when facing you, turn 180 deg and check from the back. Use a mirror if need be.

 :ddb:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2009, 07:06:52 AM »
Darren forgot to show this

Checking the tram in the other direction



It was spot on with my machine

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 07:20:24 AM »
Excellent..!!!

I not seen anyone mention this, so just thought I'd speak up.... :ddb:

I want to make one now  :)
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 07:23:31 AM »
Go for it Darren

it's really not that difficult as long as you take your time. And it will improve your overall standard of your milling for years to come.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2009, 07:25:16 AM »
Stew,

Very nicely done indeed, a credit to your machining abilities.



Darren,

That is the beauty of this design, because you zero up the dials onto any totally flat face, once you have trammed the machine from looking at the front, it cannot be out when turned thru 180 degs. That is why this system is better than any of the other awkward methods. You don't need to rubberneck or use mirrors to set your machine up.

BTW, just to double check when I made my one, I did as you said, and it was exactly the same as looking from the front when the machine tram was reset to zero.

John

Offline Bernd

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2009, 09:19:13 AM »
Stew,

Very nice indeed. Looks like I'm going to have to make one too.  :med:

I have to ask though. In the picture of your plastic tubs I noticed one labeled "Mouse Traps". What are they used for in model engineering? :)

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2009, 10:46:19 AM »
Ha I was wondering if any of you Chaps would spot that,  :lol:

I had a little problem with the beasts last year the chap who lives behind me has a pigeon loft and where ther's pigeons ther's grain and where ther's grain ther's mice, my shop was infested with them.  :bugeye:

I must have trapped a dozen of the little beasts before they got the idea and moved on: chocolate was the best bait, I thought of mounting there heads and putting them on display, but I found taxidermy a little taxing  :lol:

I suppose mice a little tame compared with what you can get in some parts of the world.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2009, 11:35:58 AM »
Stew,

You should have caught them live and put them to work picking up swarf.  :lol: Ya, I know  :offtopic:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2009, 11:50:10 AM »
That's a great Idea

We could team them up with Bandit and have a shop run by animals that'll keep the cost down.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stew



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 03:31:19 AM »
Stew,

Very nicely done, with the usual, expected humour!  :clap:

Thanks for showing.  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline mickn

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 08:49:51 AM »
Hi Stew
Great bit of work.I guess you are getting on fine now with your new mill?
 You mentioned slip gauges We always  reffered to them as Jo blocks.  I think the first guy to make them was Johanson (Swedish guy I think) and one of the old apprentice gags was to send you to the stores for the Jo block glue! this was another of those can you fetch me  a long stand etc. Anyone else remember these old tricks put to the poor unsuspecting lad?
                        Mick   

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Stew makes a Bogstandard Tram
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 09:09:46 AM »
Hi Stew
Great bit of work.I guess you are getting on fine now with your new mill?
                         Mick   

Hi Mick:- The new mills great a joy to use its making life a lot easyer milling could be a bit of a strugle with the mill head on the 3 -1.  :clap:

Some time in the near future I'm going to fit power feed with a bit of guidance from Ralph and Darren   :hammer:

As for the slip gauges your right I think we use to call them Joe's.

As for playing tricks on people we had a dark room in the standards room for the projector, some wag had put a sign up saying Prison:- we had a labourer who was a bit on the simple side, and one of the chaps told him it was his job to make the prisoner a  cup of tea three times a day, but he had to leave it outside the prison, you can guess who drank the tea.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire