Author Topic: 3D printing  (Read 37633 times)

Offline Arbalist

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Offline S. Heslop

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2015, 07:27:35 AM »
"Yes, 3D printing stands to completely transform the way we make, replace, and transport products and will disrupt nearly every major industry."

i'm really having a hard time writing anything about 3d printing without it becoming snarky. i think its almost useless on the hobby end, but i dont hold it against anyone that wants to play around with it. but there are so many... tech hipsters out there that get real self-aggrandizing about it, proudly proclaiming that their cnc hot glue guns are going to lead us into a utopian future of expensive and lumpy extruded plastic and pirated action figures

the things really hit all the right beats for those kinds of people; open source, arduino controlled, touching on piracy (or the promise of piracy), a continuation of the old cnc fad, and the whole self-important tech-fetishism thing

i think the only way i could see these things being used outside of rapid prototyping is as a marketing gimmick

Offline PeterE

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2015, 01:20:25 PM »
That was kind a harsh, I agree.

The reason for my venture into the 3D printer "world" is to investigate whether it is good enough to produce the base for 1:87 (H0) scale model accessories for those things that are difficult to create in more than one piece. Particularly double-curved surfaces like small boat hulls and other relatively complex details that are fiddly to make by hand.

Think  hulls, small phone booths, stacks of things, etc etc. The advantage with 3D printing is it requires a cad file as source nad the result will be as many bits as desired.

The thing about piracy may well be a risk, but there is also a community around the OpenSource projects that shar designs with the particular purpose of tweak a design to your own specific needs. That means that I can use a design  and by then upload it to the community page I can say "Thanks for letting me use it, here is my version".

If the printed result is supposed to be base for business it is of course handled in a completely different manner and the original CAD file will most certainly not be available on line.

The printed result is not very smooth, but that is not  a concern on my part as I anyway need to finalize the part and give it a surface finish that suits the use and purpose. I don't believe for a minute that I can get a completely smooth finished part of my slef-built thingy. I am building it to test my precision and abilities and get a working thing out of that exercise.

I think this also makes it clear that I am not a tech hpister - I am a eBusiness System Manager handling a major company's eShop activities as a proffession and daily work. At home I actually do enjoy all kinds of activities using hand and machine tools, wood or metal.

BR

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

RobWilson

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2015, 01:55:24 PM »
I for one think its a marvelous technology, it  brings Plastics an engineering material into the home shop , yes the 3DP  technology  is in its infancy , SO WHAT !  , I can remember when there were no home shop welders , NO STICK ,MIG and hell no TIG . Look now cheap as chips .

Plastics are fairly difficult to work with , yerh bar stock is easy but has anyone out there got a plastic injection moulding machine ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that will be a no then !  3DP means complex shapes can be made at home by anyone .

As the the argument about making toys , yoda's heads  and the likes is all they are  good for , well thats fine if that all your imagination can only come up with is making wee doodads  , me I can see all sorts of uses , pattern making for one , plastic  patterns are moisture resistant for one .


And what about the machine build , the learning involved   is that not part of the fun . To me if it gets kids off frigging with an xbox controller and making plastic gears its all good .

And the printing the  plastic gun  argument   :loco:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, WTF ! ,  get a grip


To me the 3DP haters are narrow minded and stuck in the past . At the end of the day its HERE TO STAY ,  :thumbup: to me its another tool/machine ,medium to be exploited .


Rob


Offline Arbalist

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2015, 03:45:31 PM »
Another good article from someone who uses 3D printers for a living.

http://gizmodo.com/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-fo-508176750

Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2015, 07:21:59 PM »
 Ahhhhhh 3D printing, it be witchcraft I tell's ya....

As with any new skill, it takes time to learn the craft.  Those with maker skills fare much better, but it's not going to be for everyone, bit like whittling spoons.   :ddb:

Knocked the bedside lamp whilst fumbling for my glasses and thought I can do better than this.



My other half had picked up some usb flex LED lights.   Aldi had just had a Powerbank on offer, so why not combine the lot into something useful.  Sat down Friday morning with the bits and by Friday afternoon had the above.   His and Her reading lights that should be good for 60-90hrs continuos use between charges.  No wires, you can lift it out of the cradle and take to the bathroom if required, and its to hand but not in the way.

Since this turned out OK, print another one on Sunday to use as a desk lamp for craft work, macro photography or illuminating the microscope stage.



As I mention macro photography here's an example.



3D printed on a cheap machine.  But why would anyone want to mould parts in silicon rubber.  Surely machining them out of cast iron has got to be a better idea....   :palm:

Guy's, it's a relatively new technology for the home user.  You do need some imagination to use it, but I think alot of people miss the point for how handy it is for prototyping, making parts to get you out of a fix quickly and complimenting other methods of making.   Think of it like the early home computer, people would ask me what the heck do you want one of them for, what can you do with it.  Well early on I had a hard time coming up with an answer, finally I got a job as a computer engineer and they stopped asking me what you do with it.

p.s
     Hi Rob   :wave:  I have an injection moulder in the corner of the workshop.



Old Austin Allen Gnat.  It doesn't get any use now I have moved onto 3D printing.   No longer cost effective to do short runs, might as well farm out abroad  :( Once the prototype has been approved.

Right, my broomstick has printed so I'm off.............
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 07:53:45 PM by Joules »
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Pete49

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2015, 10:27:12 PM »
The reason for my venture into the 3D printer "world" is to investigate whether it is good enough to produce the base for 1:87 (H0) scale model accessories for those things that are difficult to create in more than one piece. Particularly double-curved surfaces like small boat hulls and other relatively complex details that are fiddly to make by hand.
Think  hulls, small phone booths, stacks of things, etc etc. The advantage with 3D printing is it requires a cad file as source nad the result will be as many bits as desired.

/Peter
Peter this is what I am doing with what I find online as I'm crap at learning 3D cad as I seem to have trouble retaining what I learnt the day before. It prints nice and to smooth it I am looking at acetone smoothing. I have printed a sample to try it on (printed at0.01mm layer). Your printer should do what you want easily
Pete
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

RobWilson

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2015, 04:36:44 AM »

p.s
     Hi Rob   :wave:  I have an injection moulder in the corner of the workshop.



Old Austin Allen Gnat.  It doesn't get any use now I have moved onto 3D printing.   No longer cost effective to do short runs, might as well farm out abroad  :( Once the prototype has been approved.




 :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice one Joules  :Doh:   ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, something you don't  see often in the home shop  :dremel:


The Silicon mould looks interesting , did you print the part and take a mould from that  or just print the mould ? 



This I thought was an excellent example of how 3DP can be put to good use  ,    http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10491.msg120010.html#msg120010  .



Rob

RobWilson

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2015, 04:57:29 AM »

Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2015, 05:29:23 AM »
Printed the mould Rob, as I wanted to see how it would come out.  The contact surfaces of the mould were polished, note the rounding of the corners.  The loop round the upper mould half slides down to locate the two parts, then I gently clamp them.  Small holes in the upper half allow silicon to ooze out under pressure, I needed to use a pin to get the silicon into the narrow part of the mould around the vertical insert.  With hindsight I would make this a push in part after the mould halves are joined.   On my CAD system is a partially drawn model for an injection moulder using printed parts for the scissor arms and other parts, the idea is to use a 3D printer extruder for a desktop automatic micromoulding machine.  Think 3D printer on its side with no X,Y.



This is my inspiration.


PPS, open to offers on the injection moulder if anyone fancies it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 06:34:50 AM by Joules »
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2015, 06:40:25 AM »
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

RobWilson

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2015, 03:56:00 PM »
NinjaFlex ( name is a bit sad )  looks interesting 



RobWilson

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2015, 04:03:38 PM »
This just shows what can be 3DP 




I don't see the iron man suite  :borg:  , I see motorcycle fairings and seat units   :dremel:


Rob

Offline bry1975

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2015, 10:34:39 AM »
Guys,

For pro 3D printing why not send the designs out to 3D p*i**tUk or S****ways etc.

IMO SLS printing is far superior to abs or pla filament printing!

Regs

Bry

Offline AdeV

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2015, 10:37:48 AM »
Guys,

For pro 3D printing why not send the designs out to 3D p*i**tUk or S****ways etc.

IMO SLS printing is far superior to abs or pla filament printing!


You ask this on a forum populated exclusively (?) with people who have home workshops....!?  :lol:

IMHO the biggest attraction of 3D printing is the immediacy of it. Sending out to have it made is no better than outsourcing your machining work while your mill stands idle IMHO...

Now... I might change my tune a bit if I ever raise the 100,000ish needed to buy a 3D titanium sintering machine....  :drool:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline bry1975

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2015, 10:53:24 AM »
Sorry Ade. :D

Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2015, 11:47:20 AM »
Guys,

For pro 3D printing why not send the designs out to 3D p*i**tUk or S****ways etc.

IMO SLS printing is far superior to abs or pla filament printing!

Regs

Bry

Depends what you need, I had used one of those outfits for quite a while.  Once I got my machine dialled in and worked out how to get a good surface finish.  My turn around time on prints can be as little as 24 hrs rather than a week+.  Add, no hassle over confidentiality agreements when faced with sending work out over the net.  It takes a bit of elbow grease to polish a silk purse, but its still less hassle than working wood or metal that used to be the preferred prototype materials, not to overlook keeping it in house means the outsource fee's stay in house too.

I have to smile at times, when people compare SLA/SLS and FDM.  What isn't obvious to many is the blob size on each can be about the same in X,Y  Vibration is your worst enemy in 3D printing closely followed by getting all the settings for your chosen material nailed.   I admire the guys that work from polyurethane foam, carve and coat with epoxy to produce stunning work.  The 3D printer is just a better enabler, you get out what you put in.   Thats where it fits in the home workshop where you can spend the time, under no pressure to perfect your art and understand how it fits in with your other skills.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Will_D

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #92 on: January 15, 2016, 10:11:48 AM »
What with the couple of threads about 3d printing ( Peters and the Quorn) and a requirement to have a STL file printed for an Arduino/Brewing project I am getting more interested in at least the design process

I may not need to buy a printer as there are plenty of d printers available even in Dublin.

Anyway my point is I intend to use Google sketchup as I know it, its free and I very much like user interface. There is a add-on to output STL files (and a lot of others.

Just updated to Sketchup 2016 and will see how I get on.

Anyone got any comments/suggestions/or "Don't do it Will"
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Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #93 on: January 15, 2016, 11:19:02 AM »
Will, get it drawn up as an STL, if you want shoot it over to me (PM for address) and I can check it's watertight and ready to print.


                      Joules
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Offline efrench

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #94 on: January 15, 2016, 03:42:03 PM »
I've seen a few complaints about STL creation in Sketchup.  It seems they leak a lot of water :bugeye:  I was never able to make a useful drawing in Sketchup, but you may have more success.  I like the Fusion 360 interface a lot better.  Its UI is a lot closer to other CAD programs than Sketchup. 

There are models for all of the Arduino boards online and importing them into Fusion 360 is a breeze.

Here's one I'm working on for an Arduino + 16x2 LCD + Stepper driver:



Offline PK

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #95 on: January 15, 2016, 03:59:46 PM »
We've really looked hard at it for hobby/work applications. We even sent a few grand to Formlabs for a Form1 at one point, only to later get the money back.

Joules prints are excellent examples of what can be achieved with a "plastic puker" (apologies but it was someone else on this forum that came up with that one) printer. He clearly has a good grasp of what it takes to operate the equipment and his results reflect that, ie they all look half decent and at least good enough for fit up tests and prototypes.

A business peer of mine who does a lot of mechanical prototyping and very short run production reckon's his FDM printers are fantastic. Interestingly and OT, he does something I've not seen anyone else do. He runs the printers in an box at elevated temperatures. This speeds things up and reduces shrinkage induced stress in the part.

I want to make case prototypes for products and other things I can show customers. So plastic pukers are not for me. Even SLS (shapeways) needs lots of finishing before I could show it to someone and have them be impressed.

We may still buy an SLA printer, but we recently sent a complex part off to a prototyping company in china for 3d printing so we could check it before we got injection mould tooling made and they said that we should get them to machine it from ABS on their 5 axis machine instead. It came back absolutely perfect. In fact, the first two units we sold were the machined prototypes because the tooling wasn't ready.

So we'll probably go down the 5 axis path rather than 3d printing.

Offline Will_D

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2016, 03:31:23 PM »
Will, get it drawn up as an STL, if you want shoot it over to me (PM for address) and I can check it's watertight and ready to print.
Joules
#Many thanks for the offer Joules, but I downloaded SolidInspector^2 which claims to find the leaks and even fixes them. Also the 3d printers "tend" to verify the .stl files before printing.

Any ways "new year and new technology(free-software only)"

Wth: By the end of the year it will be "end of year and new hardware arriving" ( Black Friday deals on 50 micron printers  :bugeye:)

Tis a slippery slope us madmodders tread!

And as for the digital scopes/testers/sig gens threads: "Get behind me Satan"
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Offline Joules

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2016, 03:50:22 PM »
Thanks PK, don't know if this would be of interest, maybe too small/expensive for what it is.

www.pocketnc.com/

Well Will, have to find something to offer you, still hankering after trying some of your Grain father produce.   :drool:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline PK

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2016, 05:21:34 PM »
I've seen that little 5 axis machine before. It looks surprisingly good!

I already have a 4 axis setup for my X3. It seems logical to add a trunnion table type of thing to that....

Anyhow, I promised pictures:
I've done it as a link to a large JPG here http://www.caswa.com/images/forums/proto.jpg so you can zoom in and see the detail. The black part is from the injection mould tool we went on to make after we were happy with the fit of the part on the left which was machined from ABS.

The finish on the ABS part is perfect...

Offline PK

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2016, 05:32:10 PM »
 :doh: Having hit the Post button I, of course, immediately find the other samples I was going to put pics up of!

First one is of two technologies, on the left is a black part made by my aforementioned buddy with the preheated machines. On the right is an SLA part we had made a few years ago. You can see (I hope) that it starts to loose detail on the threads...

Second is an example of what we have used 3d printing for.. The black bit was 3d printed by ShapeWays, sanded, filled, sanded, filled, sanded, sanded, sanded....... Textured.
We then made an RTV silicone mold and cast the blue part in 95 shore polyurethane. The blue bit has an inductive charger for the device potted inside...