Author Topic: diy sheet metal pinch rollers  (Read 17012 times)

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« on: September 02, 2015, 02:42:00 PM »
I am starting a project to build some pinch rollers for the shop.  I have looked at some for sale and they are either very lightweight, to the point of uselessness for my needs, or vastly over the wife's shed allowance.

The build is based on the materials that I had kicking about in the shed and also the length of the rollers is limited by the capability of my lathe.

The first bits to be made were the side plates.  I used a rota broach to drill the holes:




The two plates were tacked together to ensure that they were symmetrical when machined:



side plates machined and gears bought from hpc (hopefully the only project expense)



Offline ieezitin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 676
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 05:47:35 PM »
Andrew

nice work. Did you side mill with that Rotobroach? the pictures make it appear you did.

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 526
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 02:05:51 AM »
OK Lead on McDuff, I await the next installment  :coffee: as this looks like I wanna make one too. So, thanks for posting so we can follow your adventure. Oh, and the cost limitations sound very familiar.  :lol:
   John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 07:59:39 AM »
Anthony, Firstly the sides of the slot were sawn out on the vert bandsaw (see second picture) then the holes were drilled with the rotabroach and then the slots were cleaned up with an endmill.  a lot of steps but it means that you get a nice clean radius at the end of the hole and you do not have to hog out all the waste.

John,  Having 2 kids means time is also a bit of a limitation so posts may be a bit slow coming!  We shall see...

Offline jcs0001

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Country: ca
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 11:57:17 AM »
Andrew:

That looks good.  I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

John.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2015, 01:52:05 PM »
I completed the lathe work on the brass bushes.

The brass was a bit I got from the scrapyard when you could go to scrapyards to get stuff.  The od was turned down:


Then the centre hole was bore and bushes turned and parted off:


parts ready for milling and drilling processes:

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 526
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2015, 03:26:08 AM »
Looking good, Thanks for the update. Yeah, not much luck getting into scrap yards here in OZ now either - UNLESS you happen to know the boss or someone. Sadly, I don't.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline SteveT

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: wales
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 04:34:42 PM »
Interesting project, something I need to make one as well soon looking forward to seeing the rest of the build  :thumbup:
Steven Tyrer
lives in Cardiff South Wales

Offline NeoTech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Country: se
    • Roughedge Hobbyworks
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 04:33:20 AM »
*posting to follow* Awesome been thinking of building this myself once.. never figured out how tho.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline rythmnbls

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Country: au
    • My U-Tube videos
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 09:03:30 AM »
Quote
*posting to follow* Awesome been thinking of building this myself once.. never figured out how tho.

NeoTech, Perhaps this attachment will help.

Regards,

Steve

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 03:31:18 PM »
Milled a slot around the bush to sit in the side plate.  The slot did not go all round the edge.  To speed up the process all the bushes were done in one go:

Picture showing alignment method of bushes for top and 45 deg 'slots'.  Two parallel ones were done using parallels (most critical)



Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2015, 03:34:13 PM »
after a bit of filing:

bushes in position on side plate:

next job drilling holes for the threaded adjuster, keep screw and oiling hole....

Offline ausdier

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 10:49:26 AM »
Just a quick CAD model from the plans supplied by Steve, thank you very much Steve.
Drawn with Inventor 2012 Pro.
Rendered with Inventor and Keyshot 5.


Also added a 3D PDF so people can have a look around it.
Hope someone likes or finds this useful.
Cheers.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 04:01:51 PM »
wow I wish mine was going to look that good!  Thanks ausdier.

I am a professional engineer so I spend a lot of my day in front of calculations and CAD (no greasy machines I am afraid!).  So when I get home I try not to spend too long on the computer hence this is a close to cad as I get on home projects


Bit of an update.  Holes drilled and tapped in bushings.  Holes drilled in a jig of sorts:

complete parts (although I may counterbore the top)

 

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 04:05:04 PM »
started on the rollers.  Roller length is limited to the material I had.  The useable length will be 470mm.


I would be finishing off the rollers tonight but I am looking after the kids while my wife is on a hen doo  :(

Offline ausdier

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2015, 11:37:40 AM »
G'day Andrew,
Just wondering what the holes in the bushes are for.
I don't mean the big one in the middle, I presume that is for the roller. LOL.... :lol:
Cheers and keep up the good work.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2015, 04:54:15 PM »
ausdier, The holes are to locate the screws that move the bushes in and out.  the small holes are for oiling and also to put pegs in to locate the screws so when the screw is retracted the bush comes with it rather than being stuck in the slot....if that makes any sense  :scratch:

I finished the turning on the rolls and could not resist a trial assemble. The bit of ready brek packet (can you tell I have kids!) represents a bit-o-sheet metal




next job screws...

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 526
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 02:57:58 AM »
Andrew, I am really enjoying your build but will you please resize your photographs in future posts? 800 x 600 pixels seem to work best for most web sites. As it is I find that by the time I zoom out to see the whole picture, the text is minuscule - too small for my old eyes to read. Thanks for your most interesting build log.
Thanks again
   John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 02:11:19 PM »
No problem John.  I will see what I can do for the next pics.  Glad you are enjoying the build

Offline NeoTech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Country: se
    • Roughedge Hobbyworks
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2015, 03:41:36 PM »
And 800x600 i need to zoom in so much i need to squint my eyes instead...

800x600 is a veeery old standard.. 1024x768 is prob. bare minimum for most modern computer. and 1280x<whatver> is the more common one on forums.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 526
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2015, 04:34:00 AM »
Well NeoTech an old standard for an old codger I guess. Ok stay with as is, I am pretty slick with the scroll wheel.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2015, 05:23:11 PM »
not sure what the outcome of the picture size discussion was but as it is what seems to squirt out of photobucket as standard I will keep with the original size.  Sorry scrolling may be required!

So today I mostly machined keyways for 3/16 keys.
External keyways on rollers done on the mill

Internal keyways marked out on gears to centre.  The gears were rested on the plate on two of the teeth.  These two teeth were later used to line them up in the shaper.



Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2015, 05:27:20 PM »
The shaper was set up with the clapper replaced with a fixed slotting bar.  the part was sat up on parallels (and a shim) in the vice so that the gear could be clamper but still be aligned to the parallel and the gear was set vertical vrt the marking out using the two teeth and a square.


Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2015, 05:44:19 PM »
I found this picture of me grinding the 3/16 slotting bit when I was doing another project (actually rebuilding the quill power feed on the Omnimil, which I will post a thread on at some point)

I must have been grinding the back relief here.
This was ground on the oldest tool in my shop, I recon a 1940's cutter grinder.  I remachined and scraped it as it had about 0.02" wear on the x axis.

Offline ausdier

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2015, 11:27:22 PM »
I thought the holes were for that.
It is just that in the plans that I have you can swivel the tops off to get the top roller out then you can get the sheet out.
It just means that if you need to do that you will have to completely unbolt the top brackets, all god.
Keep up the good work it is looking good.
Cheers.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2015, 03:51:06 PM »
I did ponder what the best design was.  In the end I decided that the bushes may get jammed and so the design I chose enables you to pull the rollers as well as push.  If it becomes a pain then I can always alter them.

I made the plates to hold the screw that moves the pinch roller.  No pictures of this as it was just drilling in the mill.  These plates were then used to drill m8 tapping size holes in the side plates.  I also fitted the keys in the gears.

the holes were tapped in the drill

Progress so far with mock up screws


Had a fiddle about with different sized sheet.  Any more than 3mm thk and the gears cl are too far apart and start to get a bit lumpy but this is ok as I don't think the rest of the components are up to rolling any more than that.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2015, 09:17:29 AM »
Ive been away for a bit but I have had this week off, so in between decorating I have got a little bit done on the rollers.  The base plate was made and the tapped plates to adjust the third roller.

I also fabbed up a handle.  Got to use the press brake that I built a few months ago!  Tools to make tools to make tools.........

Here are the rolls nearly finished.  just some adjusting screws to make (the ones shown are just bolts)


Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2015, 03:49:36 PM »
....So we are nearly at the end of this build.  I churned out a few adjusting screws and some t handles:


Here is a couple of views of the screws and handles installed.  Just need to cut the groove for the dog point grub screws into the screws, press some ferrules onto the ends to the t handles and give the thing a clean up and break a few edges and the project is complete.  Not really sure what I am goint to use the rolls for, but I am sure a project will turn up.  Anyone think of a tool I can make with this tool??!! :beer: :beer: :beer:



Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5088
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
    • www. sredmond.com
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2015, 08:09:35 PM »
Looking really nice!  :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline kennlindeman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: za
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2015, 02:37:14 AM »
Hi All
Any chance somebody could give me a copy of the drawings?

Thanks
Ken

Offline nrml

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Country: gb
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2015, 04:25:49 AM »
Did you have to modify the Vice you have on your Shaper? I had a similar one the next size down on my shaper but I struggled to get any accurate work done because of jaw lift. In a moment of frustration and rage a week or two back, I bought one of these ''ARC Versatile Milling Vices - with swivel base'' http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Machine-Vices

I need to fix the old one, but it has joined that endless list of projects waiting to be done. I'd be very interested in seeing how others fixed thiers. 

Offline JHovel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Country: au
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2015, 07:15:49 AM »
Beautifully made. Thanks for showing us in such great detail!
While you were posting your progress, I stole some of your design ideas and made one as well. I found your bushing design of the free-wheeling roler prevents rolling tapers. So I made mine without the outside flange on the bushes and turned a taper on the frame sides of the inner flanges, to allow the roller to be scewed as far as the diameter allows.
I also used a large (620mm diameter) wheel off some kind of large valve instead of a crank. I find the spokes on it allow better application of my muscles in all positions - whereas a crank will only work well in either straight pushing or straight pulling position. The inbetween positions where you have to push down or lift up don't work well with wide or thick material.
Works a treat!
Cheers,
Joe
Cheers,
Joe

Offline RobWilson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Country: england
  • Jack of all,master of nowt!
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2015, 12:56:20 PM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap:   VERY  Nicely done Andrew  :thumbup:


Rob

Online Houtenkrullen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Country: nl
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2015, 03:36:35 AM »
Andrew, very nice build!
How does your design compensate for the fact that the gears travel when you change the settings of the feed rollers? In the drawings of ausdier I suppose it is done by clever placement of the idler gears?
I ask because I acquired some parts of someone which were meant to be used on
 building a set of pinch rollers (3 stainless rolls plus bearing bushings, gears, and sideplates which may not work). He doesn't know how he had planned to make them anymore. I would like to finish them, but now need to design around the parts. There are only three gears though. I probably need to measure them and get a fourth one, or just use two as Andrew did?

Peter

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2015, 03:53:50 PM »
Thanks all for the comments.  Nice to know that people are enjoying the build. :D

Houtenkrullen, The gears on mine are a large module so they can operate over a large range of centre distances.  The limit is about 3mm before they feel lumpy, but then the rollers are limited to that anyway as they are only 40mm dia and start to flex too much with material much above that.  The design with 4 gears is required with smaller mod gears and probably is a bit better for higher gauge material.  The three gears are probably for a pyramid design (google it!).  These may be better for higher gauge materials but leave a flat spot at both ends of your work piece.  Pays your money takes you choice with the design options

JHovel, That is fast work, you put me to shame.  I put a fair bit of clearance in the slots for the 3rd roller bushing, but you are right that your tapering capability is still more limited that a flangeless bush (is that a real term???).  I probably will not use these very much and will roll a taper even more seldom.  If it becomes annoying I will open up the clearance further.  Your rollers look a very useful bit of kit.  I like the wheel, although making the handle was the bit of the build I enjoyed most.

nrml, The vice is ok.  I clearly got a good one and considering I only paid 40 for it I was quite surprised how good it was.  I have eyed up one of those ARC vices for the Omnimil to replace the ageing Elliott one that is on it.  I may resort to a full rebuild on the vice it as with a less pitted bottom (not my lack of depth judgement) it could be a lot easier to use.

Ken, I think there are plans on the web for the GH Thomas design.  This was just a design I scribbled on the back of a water bill while the wife was watching Bake Off! :smart:

Just waiting for some dog point grub screws to turn up and then this one will be ticked off the list.

Offline rythmnbls

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Country: au
    • My U-Tube videos
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2015, 09:20:48 AM »
Hi All
Any chance somebody could give me a copy of the drawings?

Thanks
Ken

See my earlier post in this thread. There's an attachment containing the GH Thomas design.

Regards.

Steve.

Offline Andrew Wildman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: 00
Re: diy sheet metal pinch rollers
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2015, 04:31:27 PM »
Finished.  Now onto the next project......