Author Topic: Spaced out Taper Turning  (Read 7490 times)

Offline RichardShute

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Spaced out Taper Turning
« on: May 09, 2010, 06:22:58 PM »
Hello All,
I'm a long-time lurker, but recently got gently coerced into posting for the collective amusement. For some years I have had a very nice S&B 1024, same as Darrens well documented machine, 'cept that although mine is tidyier, it does not have a Taper Turning Attachment, something I have hankered for for some time. I recently came by a TTA for a S&B Mdl A and everything except the main 'bracket' is identical to that for a 1024.

For some reason best known to himself, my father has recently decided that he has to have a mill of his own despite the fact that I have my Stanko at my parents' place as there is more room on their farm than in my domestic rat-hole. After a couple of abortive inspections of various machines he has ended up buying a pretty decent Thiel 158 (see my other recent post). There was not a lot of tooling with it; I have plenty with my Stanko, but it's MT4 which the Thiel isn't.....

So with the impending 'hey lad, can you knock up an adaptor for the Thiel so I can use your tooling' in the front of my mind, I thought I should sort the adaptor for TTA to fit my machine.

It's an easy job, just donkey work for the most part. The TTA needs to be further back and higher up as the 1024 is bigger than the Mdl A. I got hold of a slab of steel 15"x6"x2" of unknown spec., but it seems notably tougher than mild. The spacer-adaptor only needs to be just under 1.5" thick, but the billet came way cheaper than some nearer sized material from the stockholder so I accepted the volume of swarf to be generated - and making swarf is half the fun eh?

To save some weight and general hard work I decided to make the spacer as two pads, one for each mounting of the TTA, so I chopped two 4" chunks off the billet with the bandsaw and trued up a pair of opposite sides with a flycutter in the mill so I could hold them nicely. Then reduced the thickness to about 010 over size by bunging them in the 4-jaw on the little lathe at home. The mill or shaper would have been more obvious choices, but I can do turning at home anytime, whereas the mill and shaper are at the old folks place so it made sense that way. I cleaned both sides of each slab so it is a good reference, but the interrupted cut across the corners round the outer edge is pretty horrible and limits how aggressive you can be. It was about an hour a piece to turn down a 6x4 slab by half an inch with the Sabel. I ended up with the best part of a bin liner full of swarf, but time better spent than watching the moronoscope.

Back at the ranch a couple of days later: I clocked up the vice on the mill and put a slab up for more detailed work. I cleaned up the ends which were previously left as sawn and took a lick across the side as a reference face then put the groove in for the alignment key so it will be fixed relative to the TTA bracket. The blocks will be bolted to the TTA bracket then pinned. I can then take the adaptor off and steal the key to use it in its original task as the alignment to the machine bed.
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline RichardShute

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Re: Spaced out Taper Turning
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 06:28:10 PM »
Both slabs are bolted to their respective ends of the TTA and the TTA bracket 'n all bolted to a pair of angle plates on the mill table. I haven't got one single angle plate long enough, but the TTA swivel peg would have got in the way anyhow, so it was a good solution. The dicking about setting up took the best part of a couple of hours, including modifying some bolts to fit the TTA tee-slots and generally tackling it all into place. I ended up with the face to which the adaptors will fit facing upwards and clocked to under a thou over the full length of the two pads and likewise the top face of the TTA, bolted to the angle plates clocked to under a thou.

Finally I bolted the adaptor pads back on and firstly drilled and reamed for the dowel pins. I used 5mm silver steel as I happen to have a rake of it and when I went through with the reamer I stopped with the tip flush with the underneath face which leaves the last 1/2" of the hole tapered a whisker so the pins lock there and are effectively captive. Next I milled the key slots to set the TTA at the correct height when finally bolted to the back of the lathe bed. Then I took a swipe over the face with the fly cutter to ensure a true plane and bring the offset down to the correct figure at the same time. I left the adaptor plates longer than the original mounting pads so that I could put the mounting bolts to the sides of the original bracket. I did not particularly want to drill more holes in the original, but more significantly, the required position would mean the bolt would lock down over the edge of a raised lug in the casting so all in all this seemed a simpler solution - there is no real constraint on mounting length on the lathe bed.

I'll finish it off later
Richard
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline RichardShute

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Re: Spaced out Taper Turning
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 03:53:34 AM »
To finish off, I pilot drilled the bolt holes centred in the key way then took the adaptors off, cleaned the mill down, put the vice back on and mounted the slabs the otehr way over in the vice so that I could drill for the bolts and counterbore the holes.
It was handy to be able to use the original bolts as they match the lathe bed tee slot, but the adaptor is 3/4" thicker than the original bracket so I used a 30mm slot drill to counter bore the hole and leave enough space for a box-spanner or socket on the nut. It really is quite satisfying to set up a big cutter, engage the power feed and watch the metal dissappear like cottage cheese. As it happens the original 1/2" BSF bolts have the same size AF as a normal 14mm spark plug so an old plug spanner from my biking days has now been added to the lathe tool kit. Lastly I tapped the holes to retain the key in the slot. These were drilled in situ through the holes already in the keys as they were evidently done that way originally, the two keys having different mounting centres and the holes not really central in the keys either.

So there you have it. That pretty much completes all the optional extras for this lathe so I'll have to find something else to lust after - no shortage of candidates there. I was happy that once it was all bolted up on the back of the machine 'in the flying position' there ws a nice 005 gap between the top of the TTA slider and the underside of the cross slide - just right, full engagement, but no risk of fouling.

If I were doing it again I would set it up the other way round on the table and probably one tee slot back as well and put some jacks under the bracket all of which wold improve the rigidity a little. It was not a major problem, but from that perspective more is always better.

Richard
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Spaced out Taper Turning
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 10:23:58 AM »
Hi Richard, nice bit of work there, it is always good to be able to find a piece of another machine at the right price that can be adapted to the machine one has in the shop.  Great job with the photos and showing the whole of the work, it is extremely satisfactory to watch large chips curl off without complaint from the machine.  I hope you get lots of good use from the TTA. :headbang: :beer: mad jack

Offline RichardShute

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Re: Spaced out Taper Turning
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 04:25:24 AM »
it is always good to be able to find a piece of another machine at the right price that can be adapted to the machine one has in the shop.
Thanks for the compliments. I have a lever operated tailstock that's missing its lathe that looks like an ideal candidate for conversion to a slotter. Just got to find where I left the last tin of tooits.....

Richard
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Spaced out Taper Turning
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 10:45:36 AM »
Hi Richard, good luck with the slotter, I've been meaning to make one for my Logan lathe for a long time, but too much work gets in the way of working on the machines, sometimes.  I tend to fix them, and do upgrades at the same time, when they break, or a job comes and I need a feature, and decide to get it done while I've got a good excuse to work on the machines.  I've seen four or five different versions of slotters just in this site, and they all look better than the way I've been doing the occasional key way.  I should have done the slotter when I had to make a new PTO clutch for my 53 Cub tractor.  A new one wouldn't have worked, with both shafts worn with rounded ends of the splines, and the old one was equally worn, and stopped staying in.  making one meant getting to make its slots match the worn splines, and fit snugly on the worn diameter, but it took forever using just the carriage.  I look forward to your project log when you get to that slotter. :thumbup: :thumbup: mad jack