Author Topic: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project  (Read 106614 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 11:28:39 AM »
I think that's quite an achievement by hand, looks very well finished  :clap:
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Offline rleete

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 11:45:39 AM »
Just who's ashes are inside it?

Funny.  I thought it looked like a trophy.

Nice curves, ought to be a very pretty engine.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 11:55:29 AM »
Just who's ashes are inside it?

Funny.  I thought it looked like a trophy.

Nice curves, ought to be a very pretty engine.

Me too!  :wave:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline shoey51

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2009, 04:51:09 PM »
lovely piece of art there :thumbup:

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2009, 05:28:48 PM »
Awww shucks gang... I just like my metal to shine a little....LOL. It really doesn't add that much more time or effort to go the extra distance. Besides... with abrasives on the shelf ranging from coarse cut files to sandpaper with less than 1.0 micron grit on hand, I gotta use it somewhere.

lovely piece of art there

At the end of the day, isn't that really what these engine builds are about? A wee bit of unique art to be shared with others?

John...
The ashes might be mine..... if it doesn't run after all the work...(grin) You are right on one point. Anyone can do the hand contouring if they just get past the "can't be done" thought process. It's a lot restrictive than hitting a mark at .0005 and the results are a finished item that is "yours" from end to end. Making it uniquely "mine" is a whole lot of my motivation.

<OT comment....> The DRO's I recently bought out of Hong Kong are a godsend. They've made this project much easier and enjoyable than it might have been. When the drawing says put the hole "here" the 5 decimal places gives a lot of confidence that "here" is exactly where you are.... and no more doubts about center lines....(big grin).  I'm also hooked on the Bolt Circle function..... sssswwweeeeeeeett. No need to set up the RT.... in fact I was done with the first 4 holes before I could have even set up the RT. </OT comment....>

Steve

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2009, 01:03:05 AM »
Very VEry Very Nice!!!

I too found when making some of the more.. organic shapes, roughing them in and cleaning up with files and paper is a good option.
I ended up buying a small set of files that have 1/4" handles. They work really nice in removins a tiny amount of metal and cleaning small irregularities from a surface.

Realllly nice body there.
I looked at the pics of his engines.. and they are really nice.. I cant wait to see this baby come together.

Scott
SPiN Racing

Offline zeusrekning

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2009, 11:04:09 AM »
 :jaw: :bugeye:Damn Steve, Looks like you've been working. Coming along very nicely, So cool to see you building an IC. What is used for the ignition?

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2009, 01:28:46 AM »
Ok... more soccer games, mother's day and then it was back in the shop to have some more fun. The "Victorian" has a separate bearing support which is spaced some distance from the main engine body. The control mechanics, such as the governor, cam and gears occupy this space, along with the flywheel.

Duclos offered up a drawing for this support, but the engine I see in my mind's eye wanted something a little less busy while offering a clean view of the flywheel though the support. As is the case with most things I build, changes begin to creep into the design so that the finished engine is "mine". Bogstandard once brought this into focus when he told me to never doggedly follow the drawing, but to use it as a spring board. Basically, the critical dimensions are to be respected , but changes are fair game anywhere that they won't effect proper operation of the finished engine. This idea fits my creative process, so no apologies if my engine is not a "true Duclos Victorian".... eh?

The process began with several sketched ideas to test the style I'd want. I used a piece of aluminum of a similar width to that which I'd be using to machine the piece and drew my ideas with a pencil. They ranged from more complex than the original to quite a bit more simplified. The sketch shown below won out in the end. Even then it was to change in details as I watched it emerging from the metal.



The next step was to lay out the work piece. I did this in the vise, using the DRO and the wiggler point to locate the critical points such as the bearing location and screw holes for the ignition points. The circular lines were then marked out accommodate these points while creating the look I wanted.



Once the mark up was complete, I used the 5/8 end mill to cut the various radii, giving me escape spaces for the smaller end mill I'd be using to cut the circular lines.



Since a lot of metal needed to be removed and being a bit on the lazy side, I used the carbide saw and trimmed away the excess metal. This cut down on the number of passes the cuts would require, which is more than a blessing when using a manual rotary table



The center point of the main curves were drilled 3/16 to fit the dowel pins I use to index things on my handy dandy manual rotary/indexing/rounding table. After centering the table in the vise, the work piece was placed on the dowel pin and clamped down atop a two pieces of lathe tool blanks. These are ideal for use as spacers and give plenty of clearance for the end mill to penetrate or cut below the lower edge of the work.



The photo below shows the work piece after the external and internal curves were cut. The piece is centered on the upper head of the support, where the bushing will eventually fit. Light cuts were used to keep control of things and to get the best finish possible so that final edge sanding and filing would hopefully be minimal.



The plans call for using 1/2 inch aluminum for the support, but one of the changes I wanted to incorporate was a flared "foot" at the bottom. I chose to use a piece of 3/4 in. metal to allow the change. Since I intend to hide the attaching screws beneath the base, there was no need to give them a flat puchase. This allowed me to use a 1/2 in radius router bit to cut a .125 deep contour at the bottom. making the edge come to a sharp edge which would easily blend into the base.

The photo below shows the piece after the contour had been cut and the flycutting operation was in progress to resize the majority of the metal to the called for 1/2 inch thickness. This process allowed me to smoothly transition from a flat surface to the flared foot with a minimum of hand work.



Here is the support, shown during a quick mock up to check elevations. I'll be installing the bronze bushing once the final tool mark removal is completed. You can clearly see the flare and the "foot blending" idea. It might not suit everyone, but I think this piece is a step in the right direction if I'm going to personalize the engine anyway.




Steve

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2009, 01:38:47 AM »
Nicely Done Steve I like that shape a lot
 :clap:   :clap:   :clap:   :clap:

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2009, 02:26:31 AM »
Shaping up beautifully Steve!  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2009, 03:23:12 AM »
Steve,

As I have told you ever since I started to communicate with you, and seeing how you progressed into machining, you WILL become the design force to be reckoned with.

I now realise my days are well and truly over when it comes to design flair, I am like an amateur, hacking things out with an axe. So with a bowed head, I am hanging up my spurs and taking up matchstick models from now on.   :(

Not really, but I have realised that my forte now rests in engine design rather than artistic design after having every bit of work I have ever done being palled into insignificance by the work you are showing here.

So from now on, I will humble myself to a new master, and wonder at what you will come up with next. :bow: :bow:


John

Offline Darren

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2009, 04:37:44 AM »
Blimey Steve, that's coming along with some speed....looks very seductive I have to say.... :clap:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2009, 08:31:14 AM »
Steve,

Nice work. Really like the way your doing it.

Bernd
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Offline NickG

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2009, 09:44:03 AM »
Lovely stuff Steve,

To get the work to shine like that, there musn't be many machining marks in it anyway! Also, the camera usually makes things look worse in my experience. You must be chuffed with that.  :ddb: :ddb:

Nick
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2009, 09:46:53 AM »
No arguments from me on that bearing support. Nice work indeed.

Eric
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Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2009, 03:02:15 PM »
Thanks again for the encouragement, gang. The feed back is appreciated very much.

Boogster...
You'll always carry the title of "King of Bling"....(grin). Now get back on your head and build... and stop playing with the matches. Thanks for the invaluable flow background of advice and counsel. You do make me look better than I am.

Nick
Getting the metal to shine is not really that difficult, but it does take a little attentive patience and some elbow grease. My current camera is pretty unforgiving..... so yes.... that surface really is that smooth and already a very bitch to keep clean. My youngest grandson loves its fun house mirror effect. He stood in front of it for about an hour, bobbing up and down, to vary his reflection. Fun to hear someone else maniacally giggling in the shop...LOL

Looks like the crank and con rod will be the next major component. That should be fun since I normally build a multi piece crank and this one will be one piece.

Steve

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2009, 03:09:44 PM »
Well I have to say, after reading through this thread, WOW!! What a beautiful finish you've got.  :thumbup:  :clap: :thumbup: :clap:

I think that there is soon going to be a shortage of polishing mops as we all go out to try and polish all our projects.

You certainly set a high standard for the rest of us,

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2009, 04:36:56 PM »
Well Steve, You're certainly not letting yourself down   :thumbup:

I expected something nice since the water pressure engine was a stunner!

You certainly have an eye for the flowing shapes  :dremel:


Looking forward to seeing con rod and the crank!! 1 piece does look like an interesting excersise!




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2009, 08:39:18 PM »
Steve,

Came across the article in "The Homeshop Machinist". I thought I'd seen it somewere. Unfortunatley it's back in the black and white days of publishing. It looks like Philip used metal flack paint on his engine.

From what I've seen in the articles you've taken on quite a challenge with that engine. Best of luck to ya'.  :thumbup:

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2009, 02:35:13 AM »
Whew.... its been a good week. After visiting with John, Tom and John, the newly found gang of local model engine machinists, I was chuffed when got back in the shop on Thursday and began to tackle a job I'd never done, using some tools I hardly ever use and some new tricks yet to be discovered.

I needed a crank shaft and this Duclos guy said it needed to be a solid one piece version. To make things even more challenging, I've decided to add a couple of items to his design, one of which the motor will need to drive. This meant instead of ending up with an abbreviated "L" shaped crank, I'd be making a more difficult but more conventional -U- type with a one inch throw. Did I mention that one length of the shaft on this thing is nearly a full 6 inches long or that it has to align within .001 across 3 different bushings?

Since I had exactly no hot roll flat stock, I wound up using a 1 inch piece of Drill Rod....Silver Steel, for you UK guys. The long shafts would have to be turned to .375  +.002/-.000. so we're talking seemingly endless interrupted cuts over a nearly 10 inch steel rod, with no going over the mark allowed. No pressure..... for a first time attempt..... eh?

After a bit of head scratching, I broke out the dreaded 4 jaw chuck. In fairness, I only dreaded the 4 jaw because it was so difficult to change over when I was using the mini lathe. I'd learned any number of work around tricks to avoid the hassles of installation. The new C4 lathe has adequate room to easily access the chuck so that excuse was no longer valid. I decided to conquer my bias and get used to using the darned thing.

It took a bit of experimentation to get a feel for how much the jaws moved when adjusted, but my trusty Dial indicator and DTI soon had the 1 inch Drill Rod centered and then properly offset for cutting the specified dimensions. The cutting began with the long 6 inch shaft section. I've seen photos of any number of crashed crankshaft projects, so I wanted all the support I could get on the chuck end of things. That long shaft looked much longer when the cutting tool began to draw first blood.



Interrupted cuts can be a little unpredictable, even when working in close to the chuck. Step out a ways from that safe haven and things can go pear shaped real fast and real bad if you get too aggressive. I kept the cuts fairly light until the interrupt was down to a minimum. I can tell you there was a sigh of relief when the cutter stopped thumping and began cutting a nice smooth 1/2 inch round shaft.

It's always good to spot a moment where things are still fixable. This photo shows just such a moment. With plenty of metal yet to be removed to reach the .375 goal, I stopped off the machine and broke out the Micrometer to check the setup for any taper. All was well with a measured taper of .0013. Still time to make a correction if needed, however I chose to leave the problem for the polishing stage that would come later.



Once the long section was turned down to dimension, the short section near the chuck was undertaken. It was a much more stable work zone and the cut went quickly. I learned that the dials on this lathe are a lot more trust worthy than my smaller one. Less backlash and the additional mass greatly add to the confidence levels.



Once removed from the lathe, a quick trip to the bad saw removed the large end pieces so the shaft could be test fitted to the Engine body and the support. This also allowed me to prove my modifications would still work in the blind well described earlier in thus thread. The good news is all things are as the should be. The crank lobes have close but adequate clearance and the two bushings are dead on.



The next cut began with me holding my breath. The interrupted cuts were taken in light passes until things began to decrease in violence. The thin shafts were not making me feel any better about my chances of success, but I kept cutting, thinking each pass could be the one that turned things into a pretzel. Here is my solution to the problem.



Since the shafts on this crank were so long, I chose to use a trick I learned on this board some time ago. Rather than try to trust the project to the 4 jaw and end up with no way to support the long section, I made up an offset turning jig so that I could work close to the chuck and still keep the other end supported. this would give me a bit more stability which would hopefully prevent a crash and burn. I would be working within a confined space, not too different from doing a cut off and making some potentially nasty interrupted cuts with a lot less metal keeping things together.



The jig was made on the mill and the hole was placed at .500 from the center. The screws were added to lock things down and worked like a champ. The long end was supported with a similar jig which I center drilled to give the center a purchase and prevent any chance of the end whipping about under the stress of the thumping and bumping such a cut creates. The screws have small brass tabs to prevent the shaft from being scarred.



Once again the loss of the infernal thumping signaled that the cutter was now past the gap and cutting a nice smooth round. The sense of relief was strong as I began to move in on the desired dimension of .375.



A bit of filing edges and some clean up on the lathe were then the order of the hour. The crank looked cool inside the engine body and proved to be completely usable as modified.... so far....(grin).

Steve

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2009, 03:28:27 AM »
So very well described Steve.

I was holding my breath for you.......  ::)

Blummin well done!   :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2009, 03:44:54 AM »
Now I can see why you have been burning the midnight oil Steve.

Very well executed indeed. :clap:


John

Offline Darren

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2009, 05:02:59 AM »
Blimey, that was a brave challenge, well done and nice tricks there  :ddb:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2009, 03:29:53 PM »
Well done that man nicely done and described
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2009, 10:29:23 PM »
Thanks again guys. It's good to have some company along on this journey. I can't take credit for the whole jig idea as it was posted on the HMEM board long ago. My only addition was the support at the tail stock end. It got me past the alligators, so I think it works...(grin).

I'm now cogitating the mods to the con rod that the extra section will require. I'm hoping there is enough room in that blind crank chamber to let me get away with what I'm hoping will work. Stay tuned....LOL

Steve