Author Topic: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project  (Read 92256 times)

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2009, 11:26:26 PM »
Nicely done  :clap:

Can't wait to see more!

Eric
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Offline kvom

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2009, 09:21:47 AM »
I was wondering if a round similar to the tailstock jig would work with a steady rest to support it closer to the crank?

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2009, 11:20:13 AM »
Kvom
With a slight mod, I'd think it would work fine. The cut out for the screws would have to be eliminated. I see you're thinking....(grin).

Steve

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2009, 10:20:49 PM »
I'm still simmering the ideas on the con rod, but it hasn't slowed progress on the engine. There are plenty of parts to make while I'm finalizing it's design.

Having met some local model machinists of recent, I learned one of them likes cutting gears. I approached him about the gears for this engine and he's agreed to cut them if I supply him with required gear blanks. Hopefully we'll get together later this week and I can learn a bit about it.

The instructions for the Victorian give information based on ordered gears and fitting a cam ring to them, however Duclos hinted at making a single piece cam/gear if once could cut one's own gears. With that in mind, I took off in that direction.

The gear blanks were first turned on the lathe to match the given specs. I chose to use brass instead of steel for visual contrast against the aluminum.  I needed one with 56 teeth at 1 13/16 diameter and another at 15/16 diameter with 28 teeth.






After carefully hitting the required diameter for both sizes, the larger blank was moved top the mill and securely placed on the manual rotary table. Now how does one cut a 247 degree arc on a manual indexing tool?  DRO to the rescue. The piece was centered and the first cam ramp was to be milled at the "Zero" angle on a given radius. To do this, I asked the DRO to create a bolt circle with a beginning point of 0°. Once the first ramp point was milled, I then asked for another bolt circle with a beginning point of 247° at the same radius. I couldn't have asked for easier and I learned something new.

The results can be seen in the photo below. The points were gently milled to round the edges and a file smoothed it all out. A roller will follow the inner circle and will actuate a lever when it rides up on the raised came section. This will eventually control the exhaust valve on the engine




Again, everything gets a test fitting. The bushings will be getting trimmed and once the teeth are on the gear blanks they will mesh for alignment. Things seem to be moving relatively quickly on this project right now, but I'm keeping all my fingers crossed.

Steve



bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2009, 10:48:43 PM »
Steve,

Do you think you could put something next to the engine so that we can get some idea of the size please.

John


Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2009, 12:29:03 AM »
John
Sure thing guy. Add another 2 .75 inches to the top and you get an idea of the cylinder as well. Just began cutting cast iron on the lathe and all is going well. It really cuts quite differently from the steel I've always cut and dear god is it ever messy stuff. With luck, I'll fit the cylinder core to the base tomorrow.






Offline sbwhart

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2009, 01:15:41 AM »
This is very nice work  :thumbup: enjoying the post very much.

Thanks

Stew
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2009, 01:48:01 AM »
This is very nice work  :thumbup: enjoying the post very much.

Where's the "me too" smiley? I am really enjoying your work, it is stunningly beautiful.  :clap: :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup:


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2009, 02:06:38 AM »
Thanks Steve,

I didn''t realise it was that large. It sure will look impressive when finished.


John

Offline zeusrekning

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2009, 08:06:38 PM »
Thanks Steve,
I didn''t realise it was that large. It sure will look impressive when finished.
John

 :lol:

Steve make sure you get all that fine gray dust from the cast iron up. It makes an awful mess. Ive heard so many times from people selling machinery "Its never ran cast iron", I enjoy machining it if it is consistent. That is Durabar you're using for the cylinder correct? It is looking great.

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2009, 10:58:00 PM »
Thanks John... thats what all the girls tell me.... :thumbup: It gets bigger each time I play with it too....  :headbang:

Tim
It is indeed Durabar and I'm enjoying working with it. If not for the fact that it gets all over everything I'd probably use it more often. Boring out the cylinder was great..... good smooth cuts great finish and no taper in the bore. The only challenge was in power feeding the boring bar into a 2.5 inch deep blind hole....LOL.  I'd have finished the cylinder this evening if we hadn't had to keep the grandsons in their own home. Mom had a major scheduling breakdown so it was grandparents to the rescue.

I'll be breaking out the hones tomorrow and really slicking up the cylinder walls, then on to cutting the water jacket chamber and drilling the mounting holes. It should begin to start looking more like an engine after all that.

Steve

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2009, 05:28:47 AM »
Wow... Just wow... Stunning engine.  :jaw:





Love the ideas with the crankshaft cutting...
SPiN Racing

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2009, 02:03:50 PM »
The Victorian project begins to take on the look of an engine as the cylinder is fitted to the base.  The cylinder will be water cooled, so there will be a water jacket yet to be fitted to the outer flanges.

Turning the cylinder was pretty straight forward, although cutting the Durabar gray cast iron took a bit of experimenting to find out what the metal liked. I found a sharp HSS cutter and low RPM gave me the best results. Chatter was a bit of a bear in the confined area of the lower neck, but file finishing the cast iron was easy and rendered up a nice contour.



Even with a good set of boring bars, the bore of the cylinder will have tiny ridges that will create friction and wear on the piston rings. In order to prevent this, lapping the bore is a must. I used a softer metal for the lapping hone, in this case, copper being the metal of choice. The bore of the cylinder is .750 inches so the 5/8 copper plumbing pipe made a convenient sized lap and was long enough to give good control. It is an inexpensive section of repair pipe from the local Ace Hardware store and a handy source of copper for various other uses as well.

The abrasive I used is a metal polish containing microscopic grit called MAAS. I've used it for finish polishing metals ranging from aluminum and brass to cast iron and stainless with excellent results.

By running the lathe at about 400 RPM and keeping the lap moving at all times, the bore quickly smoothed out. The copper pipe felt as if the bore had huge ridges, even though none were visible. As these invisible ridges disappeared, the copper lap began to feel silky smooth, as I moved it back and forth within the bore. A thorough cleaning to remove any remaining grit followed and is a step not to be skipped.



Here is the final product of the lapping process. It took less than 10 minutes and will give the cast iron piston rings a nice even surface upon which to seat.



As I said before, its beginning to look a little more like an engine and less like a steam punk funeral urn...(grin)



Steve
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 02:08:08 PM by cedge »

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2009, 02:33:26 PM »
Sweet!

I'd never thought about the lapping like that! I'll keep it in my head for a rainy day :thumbup:


It is looking a bit more like an engine, but a truely well styled one at that  :dremel:




I think this is gonna look pretty special when you've finished Steve  :beer:




Ralph.
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2009, 05:39:52 PM »
Lovely work Steve  :beer:

CC

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2009, 01:57:53 AM »

Nicely done Steve!  :clap:

David D
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Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2009, 09:59:32 PM »
Things have been moving along nicley and I'm learning all sorts of new things from this project. The Victorian requires a pair of spur gears with a ratio of 2:1. I considered several options to supply them and friends like Tim (Zuesrekining) graciously offered their help, if needed. The options ranged from a simple online order (to easy) to having a local friend cut them (involute cutters are damned expensive). I finally chose to cut my own gears using Duclos' instructions for single tooth cutting technique. Thanks go to George Seal for pointing me to the references in his first book.

I recently acquired a small rotary table, complete with an indexing plate, neither of which I've used until now. It's too small for much serious work, but the MT2 taper was perfect for using my tail stock drill chuck to hold a mandrel, so onto the mill table it went. Things were a little crowded with both the vise and the RT, but it was workable.



After cutting a practice gear in aluminum, it was time to get serious. The cam gear blank was mounted and the first cut was begun. It would require several passes of 56 cuts, so patience was the order of the day. The tiny cutter is shown mounted in the flat angle fly cutter I made up to hold the tool. The blank has just begun to receive the first round of cuts. The cutter mimics an involute cutter but is less critical than required for the high level of accuracy of what are rather expensive commercial cutters. (one quote was $120.00 for the needed pair)



As thing progressed, making the gears was proving to be feasible. The photo below shows the gear getting it's second pass. There were two gears to cut, one with 56 teeth and another with 28.



The gears were on and off the mill several times for testing and then returned to fine tune the cuts. I mentioned patience.... the excitement sags a bit after 5 or 6 times around a 56 tooth gear. The routine of make a cut, reset the hole count scissors on the RT, lock out the indexing pin, count off the complete turns and then settle the indexing pin in its new hole.... well you get the picture.

Here is the almost final test fitting. I say final because this is where the first required remake of a part came about. Just after this photo was taken I moved the small gear back to the mill to take off another .003 inches to chase away the last of the binding between the pair. 3/4 of the way around the blank I managed to drop count on the completed turns of the RT and planted the cutter dead center of a tooth. Scratch one gear. It was SOOOOOOoooooo close to being finished. Nope.... no throwing, but I did vent a bit.  At least it wasn't the cam gear. That one would have really hurt. Tomorrow, I'll cut a new blank and go back at it.

 

The photo below shows the gears and the cylinder's new water jacket. (thanks Tim... your help with the arbor press was a life saver) The cylinder head is likely to be the next major project, along with the piston and the idea I've gotten for con rod.





Steve
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 10:02:48 PM by cedge »

Offline John Hill

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2009, 10:07:36 PM »
Beautiful work Steve,  I am not saying much but I am watching every step. :thumbup:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2009, 01:08:35 AM »
Hi Steve lovely job  :clap:

Can I ask a couple of questions :-

1:- How did you relocate the gears back on the mandrel so you picked up the correct position  :scratch:.

2:- How did you grind the tooth form on the single point cutter  :scratch:.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2009, 10:47:28 AM »
Stew
Since nothing was moved in the setup, the point of the tool was used to realign the blank. The tool bit was made from drill rod so it could be machined on the mill. It was then heated and dropped in oil to harden it. A diamond hone was used to touch up the cutting edge.

first time I've tried hardened  drill rod as a cutting tool but it works a treat. It also offers a lot of new options for profiles.

Steve

Offline Darren

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2009, 11:14:35 AM »
That's some patience you have there Steve, oops....do you really need to make another, it looks so good... :(

I suppose you do looking how well you have made the rest of it  :clap:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2009, 12:45:31 PM »
Very nicely done Steve.

You seemed to have answered all the questions I asked you in my email, and also experienced the dividing head that I explained to you.

The advantage of involute cutters is that on materials like you are using, you can go to full depth in one pass rather than the multi pass you are doing with the flycutter. But as we say, what is the rush.

You can buy involute cutters a lot cheaper over here.

http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/INVOLUTE_GEAR_CUTTERS__SET_S_AND_INDIVIDUAL_.html


John


Offline cedge

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2009, 12:15:24 AM »
John
After crashing the first gear, the second also bit the dust in the same manner. Repeated cuts on the RT were pretty mind numbing. Since the second gear died while under the final dimensional cut, I took the advice of a user on HMEM and tried the cut in a single pass. The drill rod cutter was up for it and the mill didn't complain any more than when it was taking smaller cuts. 28 passes later I had a much cleaner looking gear than when I was making multiple passes and it meshed well enough to begin the lapping in process. The gears are now running together without any extreme drag and what there is should disappear once I can put the gears under power for a final run in.

Interesting project and I'll do it again when required, but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin). There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.

Steve


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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2009, 02:51:57 AM »
I like the gear cutter/cutting Steve.... Again something that will undoubtedly be useful to many of us  :thumbup:




Quote
but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin).
   :lol:   Never heard or even thought about that before!!!


Quote
There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.
..... Women?    :bang:   :)






Ralph.
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bogstandard

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Re: Philip Duclos "Victorian" IC engine project
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2009, 02:52:51 AM »
Quote
Interesting project and I'll do it again when required, but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin). There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.

As you say Steve, using the dividing head can become very mind numbing, but on this occasion you must realise it was needed.

You will now be able to say that you have made ALL the engine bits, with the added bonus, you have saved yourself a few pennies. :clap:


John