Author Topic: Chester 626 Mill  (Read 8790 times)

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Chester 626 Mill
« on: November 23, 2015, 08:17:33 PM »
Running slowly:: Hi all i am after some help from you electricary guru's ...I noticed today that my Mill ( chester 626 single phase 240V )  UK.. seems to Eeerr! soft start, does that make sense? it used to go with a clang when it started but now seems to just run ( slowly ) also i was drilling a hole 13mm i had run an 8mm pilot drill through first, the spindle stopped twice :bugeye: i was NOT over working and hanging off the arm honest..
   I had to replace the start Cap last year when it would not start, i did replace both at the time.
Any body throw any light onto it please...
Lyn.

PS: voltage is 241 as of 7pm last evening.     

Offline BillTodd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1096
  • Country: 00
  • Colchester Essex (where the lathes were made)
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 02:54:29 AM »
there's a centrifugal switch that opens when the motor is up to speed and disconnects the start winding.

could be that the contacts have burned and are near open circuit?
Bill

Offline philf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1108
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 03:49:28 AM »
there's a centrifugal switch that opens when the motor is up to speed and disconnects the start winding.

could be that the contacts have burned and are near open circuit?

Or possibly that the centrifugal switch mechanics are sticking. Usually a blast of WD40 on the mechanism will free it up. (Easier said than done if it's a totally enclosed motor.)

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Bluechip

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Country: england
  • Derbyshire UK
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 04:53:17 AM »
Usually if an unloaded  1 Ph. motor starts it will come up to synchronous speed. Hence the jerking of belts to get 'em going.

Your symptoms may be a open circuit run winding ? I had one with just those symptoms on a ML7/T. Turned out to be a faulty connection to the 'run' winding on that miserable skinny Paxolin connection plate Crompton Parkinson were fond of.

You also refer to  'both' ?     
Is it a cap. start, cap. run motor ?
If so the 'run' cap. may be o/cct.

Really need to take the motor off and go over it with a meter. Not much to be done to prove the caps. without the proper gear, they may 'kick' the needle on an ohms range as they charge if you use an analogue meter, digitals don't usually notice. Should just read open circuit on a meter. Anything less and they are probably buggered.

Dave



I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 05:20:17 AM »
Thanks Gents for your info, i will move the world this morning to TRY and get into the corner of the shed and behind the mill to remove the motor. Me and electrics :zap: May i come back for more info when the motor is on the bench.??   Lyn.

PS: is the run Cap the high or low number? :doh:

Offline Bluechip

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Country: england
  • Derbyshire UK
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 05:33:35 AM »
Almost invariably the LOWER  value.   :thumbup:

( There is more than one way to wire a cap. start / run motor   :hammer:  depending on the whim of the designer, or what he was smoking at the time ...  :palm: ... but that is generally true ).

Dave

It may look like this:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 09:20:54 AM by Bluechip »
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

lordedmond

  • Guest
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 10:13:28 AM »
Lyn

If it were me as you have had problems in the past I would dump the single phase motor get a three phase motor with a suitable VFD .

The motor supplied may be of a poor quality , you may repair it only to have it fault again


With the above setup you will have a variable speed drive and a much smoother one to boot which equates to a better finish

1ph induction motors are a pain in the but I spent a year during my aprentiship doing armature and sator winding along with what Bluechip knows I did 😀

But it's you machine and your wallet so the final choice is yours

Reading on the net here and MEM the motors supplied on Chester branded goods seem to have there fair share of problems

Stuart

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 10:22:07 AM »
I second what Stuart said.....

I swapped out the 1ph motor in my Chester 9x20 for a 3 ph equivalent and an inverter....wiring was easy to cobble together after a bit of drinking thinking time....
Never looked back....in fact Indid the same with my Eagle30 mill and my Ajax mill which is now sporting a new motor and a repaired by merefurbished 0.4kw inverter....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 03:34:10 PM »
No time today but did put the meter on the mains again, and yet again volts are OK..

***dump the single phase motor get a three phase motor with a suitable VFD .***

this i would love to do BUT...i would not have a clue where to start...only ever worked
with 80 to 110 volts DC in comms...Ow! and interrupted/alternated DC for ringing...Now that DOES bite.
Can i get a whole package with distructions? and pretty pictures for the simple of mind?
Lyn.
Ow! and where from, as you can see i know nothing about such stuff..

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 03:47:47 PM »
I'd start with a 1.5 hp motor. I guess its going to be a frame 90 size and should just bolt strategy ght on.Followed on with a 1.5 hp inverter and a small control pod for speed and direction control.
If you can follow a simple schematic, all well and good....Pricewise, I think it can be done for under £300.....( how much?? :coffee: :coffee: :lol:)
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 07:25:41 PM »
I'd start with a 1.5 hp motor. I guess its going to be a frame 90 size and should just bolt strategy ght on.Followed on with a 1.5 hp inverter and a small control pod for speed and direction control.
If you can follow a simple schematic, all well and good....Pricewise, I think it can be done for under £300.....( how much?? :coffee: :coffee: :lol:)

Thanks John, so 1.5 hp motor will do and a 1.5 hp inverter, have i not seen the inverters output quoted as Kw's ?
Ow! how do i measure the motor to get the frame size please? as the Chester book says " not a lot " it is side mounted in the vertical.
Lyn.

Offline Manxmodder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 07:52:14 PM »
Lyn, as I understand it the frame size is the measurement from the bottom/mounting feet to the shaft centre line.

Some info here: http://www.gibbonsgroup.co.uk/blog/2014/06/how-are-electric-motor-frame-sizes-calculated

....OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 08:33:20 PM »
Doh! my head hurts, just been looking for a motor and inverter thingy with remote the prices don't half vary, the IMO Jaguar cub thingies look to be easiest do you think...Well for a dummy like me any way. I will measure the motor in the morning to get the frame size.. and shaft size to..
Lyn.
 

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 08:24:43 AM »
Any opinions on who to buy from and what make of kit?
So many to pick from, what about pulleys, do you use the
two v belts or go with timing type belts/pulleys where from.

Q's Q's From what i can see online the spindle pulley would
need to be big, the shaft is tapered and 48mm at the top
and 51mm at the bottom, can't find one that size. 

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 09:13:36 AM »
I got my motor from one of the ebay sellers....engineers mate?
Inverter, last one I got was £170 ish from same place I think..... :scratch: Invertek....nice little unit..

I retained the original pulley belt setup on both my Chester mill and more recently on my big lathe.....
The mill has the belts on the third steps I think....I got a standard 4 pole motor(1400 rpm) and just wound the frequency up a bit on the inverter to get me to just over 2000 rpm......
On the lathe, that had a dc brushed motor rated at 1.5kw .....( oh yeah? ) so went with a frame 80 size 2 pole...( cos a 1.5 kw 90 frame was too big and heavy...) 2800 rom....again wind up the hz to get me near the original motor speed ( 4500rpm?)....

In both conversions, I've no regrets at all....the ability to wind the speed up and down is great...
Need any help from me? Just ask....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline Arbalist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 09:18:09 AM »
I'd just have a measure up and then pop along to machine mart and get a replacement single phase motor. It will be a darn sight easier to wire up and cost a lot less than a three phase and inverter. Don't be put off by any rubbish that Chester may have fitted, a decent single phase motor will likely last many years.

Offline JohnC

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: gb
  • Location: York, UK
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 01:26:46 PM »
Hi Lyn,

I have a Chester 626 mill which I converted to use a 3-phase motor via an inverter.  There was nothing wrong with the original set up, but I favour the flexibility and smoothness of 3-phase -  I would not go back to single phase……..

I still have the original motor, which can be yours with a moderate cash adjustment.  This has the great advantage of a like for like swap, but you are not improving your machine!  I fitted a 1.5 HP 3-phase motor which bolted straight on and used the original pulleys.  I just leave the belts on the 1000 RPM setting and adjust the motor speed as needed.  I can dig out the motor spec and supplier if you like.  I can’t recall it being too expensive.

The inverter came from a chap who regularly advertises on John Stevenson’s Home and Workshop site, and, I believe, on a certain auction site.  He supplied a remote ‘pendant’ for ON/OFF,  FWD/REV, speed, JOG and EMERG STOP, which I fitted to the front of the lid of the mill.  I can supply more details if you like.  Again, this was not overly expensive.

As has been said, it is your mill and your money, but I find the 3-phase set up so much better than the single-phase one; even just using an edge finder, with one twiddle of the speed knob I can set 150 RPM, then once the edge is found I can wind up to 1000 RPM for small hole drilling - in no time! 

Hope that is of some use.

Best regards,
John
John C
York, UK

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 07:24:42 PM »
Hi Lyn,

I have a Chester 626 mill which I converted to use a 3-phase motor via an inverter.  There was nothing wrong with the original set up, but I favour the flexibility and smoothness of 3-phase -  I would not go back to single phase……..

I still have the original motor, which can be yours with a moderate cash adjustment.  This has the great advantage of a like for like swap, but you are not improving your machine!  I fitted a 1.5 HP 3-phase motor which bolted straight on and used the original pulleys.  I just leave the belts on the 1000 RPM setting and adjust the motor speed as needed.  I can dig out the motor spec and supplier if you like.  I can’t recall it being too expensive.



sent you an E-Mail John. Thanks..
Lyn.

The inverter came from a chap who regularly advertises on John Stevenson’s Home and Workshop site, and, I believe, on a certain auction site.  He supplied a remote ‘pendant’ for ON/OFF,  FWD/REV, speed, JOG and EMERG STOP, which I fitted to the front of the lid of the mill.  I can supply more details if you like.  Again, this was not overly expensive.

As has been said, it is your mill and your money, but I find the 3-phase set up so much better than the single-phase one; even just using an edge finder, with one twiddle of the speed knob I can set 150 RPM, then once the edge is found I can wind up to 1000 RPM for small hole drilling - in no time! 

Hope that is of some use.

Best regards,
John

Offline Will_D

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
  • Country: ie
    • National Homebrew Club of Ireland
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2015, 05:15:23 AM »
The inverter came from a chap who regularly advertises on John Stevenson’s Home and Workshop site, and, I believe, on a certain auction site.
I didn't know John had a site. Tried to find it but couldn't.

Anyone have a link please?
Engineer and Chemist to the NHC.ie
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/

Offline Bluechip

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Country: england
  • Derbyshire UK
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2015, 06:58:04 AM »
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline kayzed1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2015, 07:54:01 PM »
Bits ordered today  :doh: yesterday Friday for delivery next Friday hopefully, three company's i contacted did not bother to get in touch by Friday. They don't want my money so **d them. I went online and had a look around at what was available, rang a local firm and haggled a little which gained me a discount of over £46 plus the postage knocked off :clap: So it will be a Mitsubishi drive with an English  made motor 2hp, and the remote all programmed for the 626... I spent the morning cleaning up around the mill and fitting a wall board to fix the drive on, enough space on it to fit my home made Collette holder/stand. 

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Country: gb
Re: Chester 626 Mill
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2015, 08:36:22 PM »
...three company's i contacted did not bother to get in touch by Friday. They don't want my money so **d them...

Off topic; I find it quite amazing how many companies don't seem to be bothered about making sales. If someone phones my company looking to buy, they are treated as the hottest of hot prospects... normally we're trawling databases trying to find customers.
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...