Storebro Combi-Mill CNC.

[NeoTech]

So i have went out of my way to get my dirty hands on a CNC machine. This piece of kit ended up outside my house today. It's a 1991 , Storebro Combi-Mill, that is running Siemens Sinumerik 810M GA2 - its not the newest system, and i will need to find me someone that can help me get going. I was first thinking of converting this to LinuxCNC, but this control system is new enough so i think it can handle some intricate 2.5D at least.

It can do 3 axis interpolation and have ridgid tapping built in.. so its promising. I fi would wanna go 4 axis tho, i would need to change it out to a LinuxCNC - this mean tho my gear for the polymerconcrete machine is still intact. and this will help me build the parts for that bigger machine. (yeah i like machines).

I anyone have experience with this control system or know how to dripfeed it from a PC.. please post here or send me a message.  =)

[RotarySMP]

Nice sized Machine NeoTech
Mark

[hanermo]

Cool base machine.
Storebro is well regarded.

[RobWilson]

Pile of scrap mate ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,send it to me for disposal   


Aciera up for sale now ?


Rob 

[NeoTech]

Yeah the Aciera will be up for sale. There is alot of stuff to it tho. And the biggest hassle will be getting it out with a 1500kg cnc in the way
I shall get back with photos of my shop that has become a bit.. crowded.. just a bit...

I got it started yesterday as welll tho, and i'm a bit confused now. The machines saids -91, the manual says one system, the screen saids a system from a -95-98 machine (GA3 version) and some damned overheating circuit is kicking in directly when it starts.. so something is up..

[NeoTech]

So i found the.. ehm.. battery holder..
I don't think the battery has been changed in.. well say 8 years.. holy hell..

So well that took care of the overheating error.. but well. the buttons still don't work as intended.. all the settings for the machine is gone.. And well the manual is not the correct one for the machine. The manufacturer has gone under so many times it's just stupid. No documentation can be found basicly..

Well.. and buttons don't do what they are supposed too..

 

So.. ripping the sinumerik out of it and do a linuxcnc ??

[awemawson]

Intense googling should show up other users of similar machines from whom you could source the lost parameters. Incidentally diligently search every bit of the machine - it's not unknown for parameter lists to be stuck in odd places. Originally there would have been a copy in a pocket in the machine cabinet - probably on the rear door.


There is a chap in this thread who has one:

http://www.elektronikforumet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45172

[philf]

NeoTech,

Have you seen the manual for SINUMERIK 810, GA2

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/attachments/21899834/341_810_GA2_Installation_Lists.pdf

Phil.

[NeoTech]

Ah yeah i'm a avid user and member of elektronikforumet. There is several of us having combi mills. thats why i choose it.

But some history. The Combi Mill is actually a manual mill that was bought in bulk from a small company that made CNC machines out of them from readily available control systems for the market at the time they were ordered. So every machine that rolled out is numbered. Because every machine is different. And i have had contact with the elder gentleman that originally made my machine back in -95. And he have told me that without the original manual (that i dont have, i have a manual from a different machine). There would be no way to reproduce the settings for my specific machine.
The company that made the base machine has gone belly up like 6 times over the last 40 years and so has the cnc converter business. =)

Because everything needs to be entered, down to the parameters for the servo drives and motors. And they differ from machine to machine.

I'm actually considering stripping the machine from this control system and sell the parts off. And get something else or just the easiest route would be LinuxCNC. =)

[awemawson]

You give in too easily man - a bit of grit and determination and if you have the will you will succeed 

If it was originally commissioned by a human being and didn't just arrive fully working from outer space, it can AGAIN be commissioned - persistence tracking down data from the components it's assembled from - I fought a similar battle getting my Traub up and running 

Presumably it's got 3 servo systems with associated drivers and encoders, fed by a controller that is well documented. It obviously is basically 'together' as you have sensible displays on the screen. Given the reference that Phil posted, start by putting in 'standard values' and see what happens.

[NeoTech]

Well if you see my video clip, there you will see that the MPG panel isnt working properly. Buttons isnt conjuring up what it should. So step 1, find and replace the MPG module so it doesnt change ascii output on every reboot. So one could actually enter something into it. =)

[awemawson]

We CAN'T watch your video as it says watching has been blocked by the video owner - which is presumably YOU 

[philf]

We CAN'T watch your video as it says watching has been blocked by the video owner - which is presumably YOU 

Andrew,

Just click on YouTube at the bottom and it will open the video in a YouTube window.

Phil.

[awemawson]

Have you found this:

https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/259/21906259/att_54362/v1/356_810_820_GA2_PLC_Programming.pdf

and this:

https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/533/21904533/att_26836/v1/347_810_GA2_Interface_Part_1_Signals.pdf

and this:

http://www2.i-logic.com/manuals/SINUMERIK_810M_Oper_and_Program.pdf

The web seems awash with information, and shortage of information is always the biggest hurdle with these things 

[NeoTech]

We CAN'T watch your video as it says watching has been blocked by the video owner - which is presumably YOU 

Oh sorry its by default no embedding on my profile.  *clicked* so fixed. =)

[NeoTech]

Have you found this:

https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/259/21906259/att_54362/v1/356_810_820_GA2_PLC_Programming.pdf

and this:

https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/533/21904533/att_26836/v1/347_810_GA2_Interface_Part_1_Signals.pdf

and this:

http://www2.i-logic.com/manuals/SINUMERIK_810M_Oper_and_Program.pdf

The web seems awash with information, and shortage of information is always the biggest hurdle with these things 

Yeah i have found, and printed most of those. The biggest issue is to get hold of the DC motor driver and servo parameters. And being able to punch the data back into the system atm. If i can get around that the panel has gone awol - it should be fixable. =)

[awemawson]

Before you changed the batteries it was saying it had an over heat issue. This went away when you changed them.

Did you leave the power ON as you changed the batteries? They are retaining RAM memory, and even if down to a few hundred millivolts probably were just clinging on. Usually the batteries have a diode between them and the power rail that they are backing up, so if flat shouldn't affect what is happening. Always change such batteries with the power on.

Obviously the cpu in the controller (80186 I think?) is running, as it goes through a test sequence and is displaying sensible text. There is probably some form of boot loader to allow you to re-enter basic parameters, but it may need switches setting on the CPU card

[NeoTech]

yeah they went away after swapping batteries, and yes i let it run while i swapped em out.. but they looked, horrible and grimey.. they were long long dead. =)

[NeoTech]

Iiiits alive.. well i found the original builder of the machine and he has the backups of every machine he ever built.. Because its aretrofit, the "standard" settings for a 820M system will not work.

But well he went bonkers on it and flashed it back to original, and unlocked extra buffer space, so now i have 128kb internal memory where 10kb is dedicated to dripfeed. Now i just need to find a post processor for 810/820M that works with hsmworks (whats included in Fusion 360).

And make me a communication cable.. And i still have the option to run it on LinuxCNC if it comes down to it, but im gonna give the origianl stuff a go at least.

[awemawson]

Good news

Persistence usually pays off.

[millwright]

Well done, Perseverence pays off in the end, And Andrew seems to be the master of perseverence, surely it had to work with him urging you on

John

[philf]

Great news NeoTech.

Have you got an image (& instructions) so you could restore it again - just in case?

Phil.

[NeoTech]

No at the moment i haven't even got a proper serial cable or computer that can talk to it.. So need to get me some USB "UART" emulator. i tried with one of those RS232 in a cable thingys.. But they dont have RTS/CTS - so it will not work with the flow control in the machine.. bummer.. So at it again looking for a FL232RL based FTDI chipset. I found something on sparkfun that will maybe work, but not sure yet. Gonna need to source it from sweden so i can return if its a dud.  *cheapskate*

Anyway; image of my now continiously shrinking workshop can be found here. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/2016/03/20/making-space-getting-the-mill-in-place/

[awemawson]

That's not too bad, there's quite a bit of floor still visible 

Would an old Panasonic Toughbook be any use to you? It has RS232. I retired one a while back - I used to use it to drip feed the CNC machines but now I have all the cables hard wired back to the workshop desk top. It's the rugged variety used by the various utiites for testing and field logging. I think it's running Vista

Yours for the postage.

[NeoTech]

That could actually work pretty well. Running vista means it can run something newer as well.

I will PM you an adress, and you could check shipping? =)

[awemawson]

It won't run anything newer than Vista as it hasn't enough memory. I just had it on the network and used it to carry data to the machine.

... read your PM's - I've replied to yours

[NeoTech]

Ah right, well if it has a serialport i can have it run Linux or something instead really doesnt matter. its just a data transmitter. =D

[awemawson]

OK a few details for you to work out what your postage will cost:

It weighs 5kGs in it's carry case without further packing
It measures 380x340x120 mm, again without further packing

It's running Windows 2000 Professional, and has a DVD drive. There is a WiFi plug in and also a Cat5e 10/100 plug in. I've steamed it up and checked it connects ok to my network.

(I do also have a second one that you are welcome to for spares. but having had it's power off for years it's reverted to wanting a BIOS password - I got round that somehow years ago but cannot remember how)

[NeoTech]

So after a better part of a week and a weekend dealing with that piece of garbage Siemens system i'm fed up.
That crap has to go, its prob. the most non-userfriendly shiet i have ever seen in a computer and should be dragged out in the backyard and shot.

I have tried to everything from just programming it through MDI, from some ancient coding standard defined in the PDF.. only you get from that is "program error", and you need to enter the twilight zone of the machine and clear user memories and then reset.. that means all your settings for workarea, spindle speeds, sensors, options for serial ports everything is gone.. and you need to start over again..

Well then into automatic mode, the craptastic piece of garbage has a Dialog programmer.. manual says enter % programnummer and press edit.. Sure enough i have a program.. Well then choose dialog, start punching buttons, setting plane, measurement system etc etc.. then commit it to the program.. oooh noo the gods of siemens denies with this cryptic message "Locked input"..say what now.. im in edit mode.. how the holy #¤%! can that be locked.. i should be able to type in whatever shiet i want.. nope nothing can be entered into the program.

Why anyone would wanna keep something this outdated and inconsistently buggy and ilogical is beyond my imagination...   

Conversion here we go.. then i shall bring this piece of **** to a hydraulic press and make a dinner plate out of it.

[NeoTech]

I took the bull by the horns and made a new attack at it rewrote the post process for a different machine so it fits this 810M machine. Just crammed that damn Fusio360 manual into my head and went at it.

I basicly had to reimplement manual toolchange by stopping the spindle, retract it to a safe height and braking the program. then clearing buffer repurposing the external tool libs so it will not be a pain, change speed, stop the machine again making it possible to confirm the speed change, then kicking the program into high gear with finding its way to G54 then go down and start making a pocket, then doing another tool change and speed change and doing a 2D countour..

Can anyone.. look thru this and tell me if i'm a crazy person or not?

Code: [Select]

%MPF 1001
N1000 (Makingahole)
N1001 G90 G94
N1002 G71
N1003 G64
N1004 G17
N1005 G0 Z150 D0
N1006 (2D Pocket1)
N1007 M9
N1008 T1 D1 M5
N1009 G0 Z150
N1010 M0
N1011 G0 Z15
N1012 L999
N1013 D=R999
N1014 S2500 M0
N1015 M3
N1016 G54
N1017 G0 X8.313 Y4.63
N1018 G0 Z15
N1019 G0 Z5
N1020 G1 Z3.496 F314
N1021 G17
N1022 G3 X8.283 Y4.636 Z3.251 I-1.063 J-4.63
N1024 G3 X8.195 Y4.655 Z3.022 I-1.033 J-4.636
N1026 G3 X8.055 Y4.681 Z2.821 I-0.945 J-4.655
N1028 G3 X7.869 Y4.709 Z2.661 I-0.805 J-4.681
N1030 G3 X7.649 Y4.733 Z2.552 I-0.619 J-4.709
N1032 G3 X7.409 Y4.747 Z2.5 I-0.399 J-4.733
N1034 G3 X11.997 Y-0.159 Z0.542 I-0.159 J-4.747
N1036 G3 X7.091 Y-4.747 Z-1.417 I-4.747 J0.159
N1038 G3 X2.503 Y0.159 Z-3.375 I0.159 J4.747
N1040 G3 X7.409 Y4.747 Z-5.333 I4.747 J-0.159
N1042 G3 X2.5 Y0 Z-6 I-0.159 J-4.747
N1044 G3 X7 I2.25 J0 F942
N1046 G3 X-7 I-7 J0
N1048 G3 X16.5 I11.75 J0
N1050 G3 X-16.5 I-16.5 J0
N1052 G3 X26 I21.25 J0
N1054 G3 X-26 I-26 J0
N1056 G3 X35.5 I30.75 J0
N1058 G3 X-35.5 I-35.5 J0
N1060 G3 X45 I40.25 J0
N1062 G3 X0 Y-45 I-45 J0
N1064 G3 X45 Y0 I0 J45
N1066 G3 X44.967 Y0.256 Z-5.966 I-1 J0 F1256
N1068 G3 X44.878 Y0.479 Z-5.866 I-0.967 J-0.256
N1070 G3 X44.76 Y0.65 Z-5.707 I-0.878 J-0.479
N1072 G3 X44.648 Y0.762 Z-5.5 I-0.76 J-0.65
N1074 G3 X44.569 Y0.823 Z-5.259 I-0.648 J-0.762
N1076 G3 X44.54 Y0.841 Z-5 I-0.569 J-0.823
N1077 G0 Z15
N1079 G0 Z150 D0
N1080 (2D Contour1)
N1081 M9
N1082 M1
N1083 T1 D2 M5
N1084 G0 Z150
N1085 M0
N1086 G0 Z15
N1087 L999
N1088 D=R999
N1089 M0
N1090 M3
N1091 G0 X66.8 Y0.8
N1092 G0 Z15
N1093 G0 Z5
N1094 G1 Z3.3 F314
N1095 G17
N1096 G3 X66 Z2.5 I-0.8 K0
N1098 G1 G41 X65.2 Y5.2
N1100 G3 X60 Y0 I0 J-5.2
N1103 G2 X0 Y60 Z-7.374 I-60 J0
N1105 G2 X57.005 Y18.72 Z-10 I0 J-60
N1108 G2 X-18.72 Y57.005 I-57.005 J-18.72 F942
N1110 G2 X57.048 Y18.587 I18.72 J-57.005
N1112 G3 X63.603 Y15.254 I4.944 J1.611 F1256
N1114 G1 G40 X63.001 Y19.685
N1116 CIP G3 X63.762 Y19.933 Z-9.2 I1=63.539 J1=19.861 K1=-9.766
N1117 G0 Z15
N1118 G17
N1119 G0 Z200 F1000
N1120 G0 X0 Y0
N1121 M30



[NeoTech]

Wiiih first cut.. not much but something on a piece of scrap.. Still amazeballs for me. =) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o31X1UvdHNc

[RotarySMP]

Cool. that is a milestone.

Mark

[awemawson]

.... so just maybe that controller isn't as bad as you thought ........ 

[NeoTech]

Well its as userfriendly as a piece of lump coal. But it works.
And adding onto it like a 4th axis would be a nightmare i'm guessing. =)

[NeoTech]

So here is a dry run of the DNC Dripfeed over a serial connection. i Got CTS/RTS working over 9600 baud and its really stable.
For communication i used a UC232R-10 from FTDI, i tried like 7 of these usb to serial dongles, but this one was really stable.
I had one of the "same" but it was apparently a chinese knock off, but the real deal. is really good.

Warning the volume is kinda high..

[RobWilson]

   good to see and hear the machine is up and running 



Rob

[NeoTech]

Yeah now i need to find a stash of ISO40 holders, like.. alot of em. For cheap!.. *going trough online auctions*

[NeoTech]

Small update in the postprocess making and milling department. I link my site instead because of content amount.
Basicly have been having issues with modal plane selection and running thru my programs without block errors. But slowly sorting the post processor for this.

http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/2016/04/20/first-run-and-issues/

[NeoTech]

And the second run this time in aluminium.

http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/2016/04/21/second-run-and-still-som-issues/

[NeoTech]

Wiih I got zie hoolders!.

http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/2016/04/29/fick-verktygshallare-wiih/