Trust Old Files

[sbwhart]

Files are one bit if kit that seem to get over looked in the workshop, they have been around for many years, I read that Crewe loco work went through a tonne of files a month in its early days, it being two mens work for a week to file up a cast connecting rod.

I can't remember being taught how to file it was just something you did, but I do remember when I started my apprenticeship the fist task we were given was to file up a block of steel flat and square then file a square hole in the middle to fit a block, boy were we sick of that block by the time it was finished.

Any way here's a few book tips about files.

1:- Keep new files for softer materials as they become worn start to use them on harder materials.
2:- Don't let them rub together this will damage the cutting edge.
3:- Keep the file clean of bits sticking in the teeth with a stiff wire brush.
4:- Rubbing chalk on the file will help prevent soft material sticking in the teeth (Pinning)
5:- Start with a rough cut file then finish of with a fine cut or smooth file.
6:- Always use a file with a handle the tang can stab into your hand with bloody results
7:- Fit the handle nice a square so that it is comfortable to use.
8:- Have the work at elbow height
9:- Alternate direction of filing this way you can see where you're taking the meat from.

They come in different degrease of rough nes the roughest are called Bastards  (school boy giggles) then we have 2nd cut smooth and fine.

Files come in all shapes a sizes



These are flat files the parallel ones are called hand files and have a safe edge with no teeth so that you can work up to a corner, in fact a lot of my files were passed onto me from engineers long gone and many of them have been modified for some job or other by having sections of the teeth ground away.



Halve round, triangular or three square, round or rat tailed, and square files



Some unusual shaped files the ones on the left have a cross section like a knife Blade, some are double radiused with a cross section similar to an aircraft wing. The bent ones are called rifler files



Needle files or Swiss files (the Swiss call them English files)



I use wooden handles but you can also get plastic handles. The correct way to fit a wooden handle is to heat the tang of the file up to a cherry red and burn the file into the handle keeping it square.



Hope that's of use to you

Stew

[bogstandard]

I'll have to file that away for future reference Stew.

Just another tip, I cut the tangs off certain files for when I am handholding and dressing a part, this makes it a lot easier to hold with your fingertips when fine tuning, the handle doesn't get in the way.

Another one concerns round files. These are normally tapered, but if you buy chainsaw dressing files, they are parallel all the way along. Again, I remove the tang, and if I have cut a fluted edge say on the end of an engine base, they can be slid up and down the rounded groove, again using fingertips, to remove the dreaded machining marks that you sometimes get with ball nosed cutters. The only downside is that they only come in certain sizes.

It also pays to obtain the best quality files you can. I bought a single specialist file about 30 years ago, it is 1mm thick and looks just like a thin strip of plate, and was used on weaving machines to dress out slots where the thread had cut into the metal. It sits on my benchtop within easy reach, and has been used almost daily for all that time, and cuts as well now as it did when I bought it. Cheap files are just not worth the effort.

Notang files are shown in pic.

John

[Divided he ad]

Good stuff Stew,

I said a little in your loco thread, but here is similar,

I use files to shape odd bits and bobs as well as flat some stuff too....Draw filing on some parts.

I don't have quite the collection of shapes and sizes that yourself and John do, but I have a few and they certainly get a good run now and again.... Used one to shape the bracket for my mill power feed the other week, aluminium, picked up a bit (pinning) But worked a treat 

I like the idea of the chalk.... I'll have to try that one 

Have the work at elbow height

That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!! 





Ralph.

[sbwhart]

Have the work at elbow height

That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!! 

Ralph.

You have to block the vice up or dig a hole to stand in 

Cheers

Stew

[bogstandard]

That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!! 

Don't worry Ralph, I do a nice line in leg shortening, next time you are over, jump up on the mill and I will shorten them as much as you like in minutes.

Bogs

[Divided he ad]

Oddly John, Stew's idea of the hole appeals more to my liking to walk!! Thanks for the offer anyway


But blocking the vice up!? I think that would look a little funny but mostly be a right sod to take out the movement! (my bench isn't the most solid in the world.... Not that bad either! )




Ralph.

[SPiN Racing]

Its kinda funny to me that people forget to use files.

When I was a kid in the 70s (Hush) My dad wouldnt let me use power ANYTHING... just because I spent a regular amount of time in the ER for being danger boy or something.

I had a need to modify everything I had when younger. Be it joining two bicycles together side by side.. or making a bicycle dragster thing. Or a plethora of gokarts of wood, and later metal..

No Power tools unless he was with me. And as he was a Colonel, and then a retired Colonel.. he wasnt around much when I was little-er. Enough to give a bump in the right direction, and then, back again to tell me to take whatever I made apart before the week started.

When making things.. I had several basic tools...
Hammer
Rip? Saw (Standard old wooden handle saw with like a 3 foot blade)
A few screwdrivers
a dozen or so files.

The files were all in a handle, and went from wood raasps to standard files for metal. He had rat tail files, and square and triangle ones.

The thing is.. when a hammer or saw wont make the shape.. you need to resort to files.

I would even use the screwdrivers with the hammerable end to chisel out wood, and then file it smooth.

Eventually I was making wooden gokarts with steering composed of rope to the frontend through bent copper pipe up through the floor, and wrapped around a broomstick with a round wooden disk.
All of it was hammer, saw and file work.

As I got older, moved out and needed to fabricate something, my dad had given me most of his tools, including the files... which I use regularly still.
I have a few parts on the 3-Rotor car that were made completely with files, hack saw, and hand drill.
I offered to re-make them, or clean them up with the Mill, for my best friend who owns the beasty.. and he was more offended than I have ever seen.
There is a certain organic feel to things... it goes back to that Artist vs Part Maker thing.

There is a feel of the metal you get from a file.. you dont get from the machines, unless you are paying close attention to the sensations in the handles.

[sbwhart]

There is a certain organic feel to things... it goes back to that Artist vs Part Maker thing.

There is a feel of the metal you get from a file.. you dont get from the machines, unless you are paying close attention to the sensations in the handles.

How very true:- you really get a feel for the material property when working it by hand, something you don't get with a machine.

Stew

[Stilldrillin]

Thanks for that Stew!

All those apprentice filing memories....... 

Occasionally tidying my workshop area, I keep finding files, saved in toolboxes during my engineering lifetime.

Not much use for 12" files, these days. But, it`s amazing the career memories they evoke....... 

David D

[sbwhart]

All those apprentice filing memories....... 

Everywhere seemed to have done the same thing I think it was a way of sorting the chaff from the weat after 3 or 4 weeks filing:- only the real keen ones were left the rest had jumped ship 

Stew

[raynerd]

I just bought some new old stock British made files - I got about 8 all together. Just wondering if it was standard to slot a wooden handle onto them or do people tend to just leave them with the steel stem?

Chris

[usn ret]

Chris,,   put handles on your new files..
1.  Improves control, specifically small files are dificult to control with the small tang.
2.  Safety, round handle is more difficult to jam into the palm of your hand
           sharp tang hurts as it penetrates the skin of your palm.
3.  When laying flat,  a handle keeps the teeth from contacting potential file dulling material.
4.  Store your new files in a manner that they don't contact each other, files smacking against each other will dull any file

I use commercial handles, old screwdriver handles and those of my own design to cover the shar bit at the end.l
I am ceretain that others will have reasons to handle or not handle files each based on its own merit.
File this as appropiate!
Cliff

[raynerd]

Thanks for the info Cliff. I may turn some handles, seems like a nice project. Is it just a case of jamming the end into the wooden handle. I ask because I read somewhere that some people heat it up but I can`t remember why they heated it and I can`t find the link anywhere.

Chris

[DavesWimshurst]

Chris,
Heating the tang hot enough to burn itself into a predrilled pilot hole can give a nice fit to the handle .  I just drive the file it and don't bother with the heating.  I may enlarge the first part of the hole if needed.  Here are some file handles I made in osage orange wood cause I like the way it looks:

Dave

[Bernd]

Nice looking handles Dave. Turned on a metal lathe or wood lathe with hand tools?

Bernd

[DavesWimshurst]

Bernd,
Thanks for the compliment.  I turned them on my Southbend using a round nosed tool with lots of rake.  I refined the shape with files and sandpaper in the lathe but had to finish sand by hand to get the scratches out. 
Sometimes a fancy tool handle just makes you fell better.
Dave

[raynerd]

Really cheesy question but how do you guys store your files? I try not to stack them all together so I don`t damage the teeth but then I end up with them everywhere around the workshop. I know it sounds a bit sad, but I`m thinking about a quick and dirty "file stand" of some sorts?

Obviously, I`ve just come back from the shop sorting them all out!

Chris

[Dean W]

Really cheesy question but how do you guys store your files? I try not to stack them all together so I don`t damage the teeth
Chris

Hi Chris;
I don't have a special stand for mine either, as it would take up limited bench space in my shop.  I just have mine stacked on a small
section of shelf space.  To keep them from rubbing together and damaging teeth, I make a sheath for each file.  Heavy brown paper
bag makes a good sheath.  Wrap a piece around the file twice, and use cello tape to tape the edges of the paper.  Fold the end over
so it overlaps the end of the file about an inch, and tape it too.  Cheap, they last for years, and good protection for my files.

I use black marker to put the file type on the handle of each file so I don't have to take each one out of it's sheath to identify it.

Dean

[ScroungerLee]

Since we are talking about files...

I normally wouldn't order any tool with "magic" in the name, but picked up one of these Nicholson Magicut files.  It is amazing on aluminum, NO pinning.
http://www.fine-tools.com/magicut.htm

In the US, less than 10 dollars at Amazon.

Another thought, when I get new files I use two permanent markers near the tang, red on one side and green on the other.  Then I use only the red side unless doing some reaaally fine work where I want a "brand new" file.

Have fun,
Lee

[Powder Keg]

I'll second the Magicut files. They are Awesome!

I like the marker Idea!!! Thanks for sharing!!

[raynerd]

I like the idea of a sheath - thanks for that!

Also like the idea of a red and black dot on each side to keep one side "for best".

Chris

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Chris

I made a rack to store my files , from a length of angle and a bit flat bar ,with two short bits of flat bar  at each end between the two , so you end up with a long slot  , and stuck it on the wall , keeps them out the way and easy to see witch file your after 


Rob

[AdeV]

Excellent thread this, thanks for bringing it back to the top 

I only have a small collection of files, and most of those from a 2nd hand shop which have obviously seen better days. Is there a cheap'n'cheerful way of sharpening up an old dull file, or is it best being re-assigned to other duties (whatever use can be found for a lump of hardened steel...)?

[Bogstandard]

Ade,

Files can be resharpened fairly easily, but it requires the use of nasty things like acid.

They can be reground into great gravers (for hand turning metal) and scrapers, to name just a couple of uses.

But really, your best bet is to buy a couple or three very good quality ones, and they should last for many years if looked after. Remember that thin one I showed you the other day, I bought that many many years ago, and it is used almost daily, but it did cost a lot of money when I bought it.

Next time you are over, remind me, and I will have a root thru mine to see if we can find a couple of good ones for you.


John

[bp]

Those Magicut files look very similar to the Millennicut files we were issued with during my apprenticeship in the '60's.  They were a revelation on light alloy I still have some tucked away in my toolbox, wrapped in newspaper from 1965!!
cheers
Bill Pudney