Author Topic: Trust Old Files (Read 32522 times)

sbwhart · « **on:** May 12, 2009, 01:40:37 AM »

Files are one bit if kit that seem to get over looked in the workshop, they have been around for many years, I read that Crewe loco work went through a tonne of files a month in its early days, it being two mens work for a week to file up a cast connecting rod.

I can't remember being taught how to file it was just something you did, but I do remember when I started my apprenticeship the fist task we were given was to file up a block of steel flat and square then file a square hole in the middle to fit a block, boy were we sick of that block by the time it was finished.

Any way here's a few book tips about files.

1:- Keep new files for softer materials as they become worn start to use them on harder materials.
2:- Don't let them rub together this will damage the cutting edge.
3:- Keep the file clean of bits sticking in the teeth with a stiff wire brush.
4:- Rubbing chalk on the file will help prevent soft material sticking in the teeth (Pinning)
5:- Start with a rough cut file then finish of with a fine cut or smooth file.
6:- Always use a file with a handle the tang can stab into your hand with bloody results
7:- Fit the handle nice a square so that it is comfortable to use.
8:- Have the work at elbow height
9:- Alternate direction of filing this way you can see where you're taking the meat from.

They come in different degrease of rough nes the roughest are called Bastards (school boy giggles) then we have 2nd cut smooth and fine.

Files come in all shapes a sizes

These are flat files the parallel ones are called hand files and have a safe edge with no teeth so that you can work up to a corner, in fact a lot of my files were passed onto me from engineers long gone and many of them have been modified for some job or other by having sections of the teeth ground away.

Halve round, triangular or three square, round or rat tailed, and square files

Some unusual shaped files the ones on the left have a cross section like a knife Blade, some are double radiused with a cross section similar to an aircraft wing. The bent ones are called rifler files

Needle files or Swiss files (the Swiss call them English files)

I use wooden handles but you can also get plastic handles. The correct way to fit a wooden handle is to heat the tang of the file up to a cherry red and burn the file into the handle keeping it square.

Hope that's of use to you

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2009, 04:35:18 AM »

I'll have to file that away for future reference Stew.

Just another tip, I cut the tangs off certain files for when I am handholding and dressing a part, this makes it a lot easier to hold with your fingertips when fine tuning, the handle doesn't get in the way.

Another one concerns round files. These are normally tapered, but if you buy chainsaw dressing files, they are parallel all the way along. Again, I remove the tang, and if I have cut a fluted edge say on the end of an engine base, they can be slid up and down the rounded groove, again using fingertips, to remove the dreaded machining marks that you sometimes get with ball nosed cutters. The only downside is that they only come in certain sizes.

It also pays to obtain the best quality files you can. I bought a single specialist file about 30 years ago, it is 1mm thick and looks just like a thin strip of plate, and was used on weaving machines to dress out slots where the thread had cut into the metal. It sits on my benchtop within easy reach, and has been used almost daily for all that time, and cuts as well now as it did when I bought it. Cheap files are just not worth the effort.

Notang files are shown in pic.

John

Divided he ad · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2009, 12:31:02 PM »

Good stuff Stew,

I said a little in your loco thread, but here is similar,

I use files to shape odd bits and bobs as well as flat some stuff too....Draw filing on some parts.

I don't have quite the collection of shapes and sizes that yourself and John do, but I have a few and they certainly get a good run now and again.... Used one to shape the bracket for my mill power feed the other week, aluminium, picked up a bit (pinning) But worked a treat

I like the idea of the chalk.... I'll have to try that one

Quote

Have the work at elbow height

That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!!

Ralph.

sbwhart · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2009, 01:47:00 PM »

Quote from: Divided he ad on May 12, 2009, 12:31:02 PM

Quote
Have the work at elbow height
That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!!

Ralph.

You have to block the vice up or dig a hole to stand in

Cheers

Stew

bogstandard · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2009, 04:20:24 PM »

Quote

That's easy for some of you.... My elbows are over 4Ft off the ground!!!

Don't worry Ralph, I do a nice line in leg shortening, next time you are over, jump up on the mill and I will shorten them as much as you like in minutes.

Bogs

Divided he ad · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2009, 07:25:44 PM »

Oddly John, Stew's idea of the hole appeals more to my liking to walk!! Thanks for the offer anyway

But blocking the vice up!? I think that would look a little funny but mostly be a right sod to take out the movement! (my bench isn't the most solid in the world.... Not that bad either!

)

Ralph.

SPiN Racing · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2009, 09:48:17 PM »

Its kinda funny to me that people forget to use files.

When I was a kid in the 70s (Hush) My dad wouldnt let me use power ANYTHING... just because I spent a regular amount of time in the ER for being danger boy or something.

I had a need to modify everything I had when younger. Be it joining two bicycles together side by side.. or making a bicycle dragster thing. Or a plethora of gokarts of wood, and later metal..

No Power tools unless he was with me. And as he was a Colonel, and then a retired Colonel.. he wasnt around much when I was little-er. Enough to give a bump in the right direction, and then, back again to tell me to take whatever I made apart before the week started.

When making things.. I had several basic tools...
Hammer
Rip? Saw (Standard old wooden handle saw with like a 3 foot blade)
A few screwdrivers
a dozen or so files.

The files were all in a handle, and went from wood raasps to standard files for metal. He had rat tail files, and square and triangle ones.

The thing is.. when a hammer or saw wont make the shape.. you need to resort to files.

I would even use the screwdrivers with the hammerable end to chisel out wood, and then file it smooth.

Eventually I was making wooden gokarts with steering composed of rope to the frontend through bent copper pipe up through the floor, and wrapped around a broomstick with a round wooden disk.
All of it was hammer, saw and file work.

As I got older, moved out and needed to fabricate something, my dad had given me most of his tools, including the files... which I use regularly still.
I have a few parts on the 3-Rotor car that were made completely with files, hack saw, and hand drill.
I offered to re-make them, or clean them up with the Mill, for my best friend who owns the beasty.. and he was more offended than I have ever seen.
There is a certain organic feel to things... it goes back to that Artist vs Part Maker thing.

There is a feel of the metal you get from a file.. you dont get from the machines, unless you are paying close attention to the sensations in the handles.

sbwhart · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2009, 02:39:06 AM »

Quote from: SPiN Racing on May 12, 2009, 09:48:17 PM

There is a certain organic feel to things... it goes back to that Artist vs Part Maker thing.

There is a feel of the metal you get from a file.. you dont get from the machines, unless you are paying close attention to the sensations in the handles.

How very true:- you really get a feel for the material property when working it by hand, something you don't get with a machine.

Stew

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2009, 10:22:20 AM »

Thanks for that Stew!

All those apprentice filing memories.......

Occasionally tidying my workshop area, I keep finding files, saved in toolboxes during my engineering lifetime.

Not much use for 12" files, these days. But, it`s amazing the career memories they evoke.......

David D

sbwhart · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2009, 10:26:44 AM »

Quote from: Stilldrillin on May 15, 2009, 10:22:20 AM

All those apprentice filing memories.......

Everywhere seemed to have done the same thing I think it was a way of sorting the chaff from the weat after 3 or 4 weeks filing:- only the real keen ones were left the rest had jumped ship

Stew

raynerd · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2009, 03:12:46 PM »

I just bought some new old stock British made files - I got about 8 all together. Just wondering if it was standard to slot a wooden handle onto them or do people tend to just leave them with the steel stem?

Chris

usn ret · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2009, 04:54:38 PM »

Chris,, put handles on your new files..
1. Improves control, specifically small files are dificult to control with the small tang.
2. Safety, round handle is more difficult to jam into the palm of your hand
sharp tang hurts as it penetrates the skin of your palm.
3. When laying flat, a handle keeps the teeth from contacting potential file dulling material.
4. Store your new files in a manner that they don't contact each other, files smacking against each other will dull any file

I use commercial handles, old screwdriver handles and those of my own design to cover the shar bit at the end.l
I am ceretain that others will have reasons to handle or not handle files each based on its own merit.
File this as appropiate!
Cliff

raynerd · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2009, 07:00:08 PM »

Thanks for the info Cliff. I may turn some handles, seems like a nice project. Is it just a case of jamming the end into the wooden handle. I ask because I read somewhere that some people heat it up but I can`t remember why they heated it and I can`t find the link anywhere.

Chris

DavesWimshurst · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2009, 07:30:04 PM »

Chris,
Heating the tang hot enough to burn itself into a predrilled pilot hole can give a nice fit to the handle . I just drive the file it and don't bother with the heating. I may enlarge the first part of the hole if needed. Here are some file handles I made in osage orange wood cause I like the way it looks:

Dave

Bernd · « **Reply #14 on:** May 28, 2009, 08:58:03 AM »

Nice looking handles Dave. Turned on a metal lathe or wood lathe with hand tools?

Bernd

DavesWimshurst · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2009, 01:15:06 PM »

Bernd,
Thanks for the compliment. I turned them on my Southbend using a round nosed tool with lots of rake. I refined the shape with files and sandpaper in the lathe but had to finish sand by hand to get the scratches out.
Sometimes a fancy tool handle just makes you fell better.

Dave

raynerd · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2010, 07:23:44 PM »

Really cheesy question but how do you guys store your files? I try not to stack them all together so I don`t damage the teeth but then I end up with them everywhere around the workshop. I know it sounds a bit sad, but I`m thinking about a quick and dirty "file stand" of some sorts?

Obviously, I`ve just come back from the shop sorting them all out!

Chris

Dean W · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2010, 07:48:05 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on September 20, 2010, 07:23:44 PM

Really cheesy question but how do you guys store your files? I try not to stack them all together so I don`t damage the teeth
Chris

Hi Chris;
I don't have a special stand for mine either, as it would take up limited bench space in my shop. I just have mine stacked on a small
section of shelf space. To keep them from rubbing together and damaging teeth, I make a sheath for each file. Heavy brown paper
bag makes a good sheath. Wrap a piece around the file twice, and use cello tape to tape the edges of the paper. Fold the end over
so it overlaps the end of the file about an inch, and tape it too. Cheap, they last for years, and good protection for my files.

I use black marker to put the file type on the handle of each file so I don't have to take each one out of it's sheath to identify it.

Dean

ScroungerLee · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2010, 08:17:49 PM »

Since we are talking about files...

I normally wouldn't order any tool with "magic" in the name, but picked up one of these Nicholson Magicut files. It is amazing on aluminum, NO pinning.
http://www.fine-tools.com/magicut.htm

In the US, less than 10 dollars at Amazon.

Another thought, when I get new files I use two permanent markers near the tang, red on one side and green on the other. Then I use only the red side unless doing some reaaally fine work where I want a "brand new" file.

Have fun,
Lee

Powder Keg · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2010, 11:51:03 PM »

I'll second the Magicut files. They are Awesome!

I like the marker Idea!!! Thanks for sharing!!

raynerd · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2010, 04:17:56 AM »

I like the idea of a sheath - thanks for that!

Also like the idea of a red and black dot on each side to keep one side "for best".

Chris

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2010, 05:02:18 AM »

Hi Chris

I made a rack to store my files , from a length of angle and a bit flat bar ,with two short bits of flat bar at each end between the two , so you end up with a long slot , and stuck it on the wall , keeps them out the way and easy to see witch file your after

Rob

AdeV · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2010, 05:18:31 AM »

Excellent thread this, thanks for bringing it back to the top

I only have a small collection of files, and most of those from a 2nd hand shop which have obviously seen better days. Is there a cheap'n'cheerful way of sharpening up an old dull file, or is it best being re-assigned to other duties (whatever use can be found for a lump of hardened steel...)?

Bogstandard · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2010, 08:16:08 AM »

Ade,

Files can be resharpened fairly easily, but it requires the use of nasty things like acid.

They can be reground into great gravers (for hand turning metal) and scrapers, to name just a couple of uses.

But really, your best bet is to buy a couple or three very good quality ones, and they should last for many years if looked after. Remember that thin one I showed you the other day, I bought that many many years ago, and it is used almost daily, but it did cost a lot of money when I bought it.

Next time you are over, remind me, and I will have a root thru mine to see if we can find a couple of good ones for you.

John

bp · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2010, 05:56:22 PM »

Those Magicut files look very similar to the Millennicut files we were issued with during my apprenticeship in the '60's. They were a revelation on light alloy I still have some tucked away in my toolbox, wrapped in newspaper from 1965!!
cheers
Bill Pudney

raynerd · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2011, 05:40:01 PM »

Just to raise this from the dead, and really of no interest to anyone, I just fancied a dance around

.

Some time ago I picked up a pack of 15-20 needle files in a dirty tight fitting box from about 2 years ago when I went to Harrogate for the first time. I don`t know which stand it was, it was just one of those boxes kicking around under the stands with a load of second hand stuff in. I think I gave no more than £10 for them, I`m really sure I paid less. Anyway, after paying £3.50 per file for my "best" ones, I`ve always used them. Anyway, just tidying up my workshop now and opened up that box of files again. Time to start dancing because I found that 2 or 3 of them aren`t stamped at all

, 4-5 of them are stamped Stubbs England , that gets one dancing icon

and literally 12 of them are stamped "Vallorbe" -

Nice thing is, most of them are different so I have a nice selection of quality files. 3 of the Vallorbe ones look to be escapement size as well

Right, enough gloating....couldn`t help it. I think the point has been enhanced by the fact I`ve been sitting on them for about 2 1/2 years! They all look in great nick, infact, they really look unused!

Chris

Jonny · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2011, 06:19:09 PM »

Sounds a good buy if Vallorbe, mind you they went down the pan around 7 years ago, those certainly are older and irreplaceable quality items.

Just picked up this resurected thread, Stew that file on the left is a knife file and hard to get hold of and wont last long, used to go through one a week unless Swiss Vallorbe fine. I had to look very carefully i thought quite a few were mine at work especially riflers and the ground up ones either safe edge or concave one sided knife files for spring making. Your double half round wont cut very good even though look ok.

12" bastard we were only allowed one a week, no fun when theyre gone does your elbow joints in.

DMIOM · « **Reply #27 on:** August 07, 2011, 03:29:18 AM »

Quote from: craynerd on August 06, 2011, 05:40:01 PM

...........Right, enough gloating....couldn`t help it. I think the point has been enhanced by the fact I`ve been sitting on them for about 2 1/2 years! .......

Maybe they actually mature like fine wine! and maybe you can start a new niche investment business - if you've got the eye for them, the rate of return on such items is probably better than most banks 0.x% !

Quote from: Jonny on August 06, 2011, 06:19:09 PM

Sounds a good buy if Vallorbe, mind you they went down the pan around 7 years ago,.....

Jonny, if they were in trouble then they've been resurrected as I bought some Vallorbe files from MSC J&L only a couple of months ago.

Dave

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:20:36 AM »

http://www.electro-group.co.uk/files-vallorbe.htm

David D

Davo J · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2011, 02:49:26 PM »

Hi,
Last year I went to a market and a lady had a box of old quality files (all thrown in together

) 50c each and a heap of old quality grease guns $1 each. I bought 2 grease guns and a few files and she said she just wanted to get rid of them all.
When I returned the next month she still had them all, so I offered $3 for the box of files which she gladly took.
It turned out her father died and she was just wanting to get rid of them as she had sold all the other gear.
Just in timber handles I got my money worth and some of the files are like new and in a range of sizes shapes, etc.
From memory they are mostly made in England and Australia. There was the odd few that someone had stirred paint with.

I don't mind filing sometimes, when I made my lathe extended D1-4 key to stop hitting my knuckles on the Chinese head stock, I turned it down to shape in the lathe and then filed the squares while in the chuck. Nothing better than file fitted as it turned out spot on and looks as good as if it was milled. It would have taken a lot longer to setup the mill to do the 1 of job anyway.

My grandfather taught me at a young age how to file, but back then it was a chore because thats all I had, LOL.
Now it's just one of the tools I couldn't do without.

Dave

Jonny · « **Reply #30 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:14:46 PM »

Quote from: DMIOM on August 07, 2011, 03:29:18 AM

Jonny, if they were in trouble then they've been resurrected as I bought some Vallorbe files from MSC J&L only a couple of months ago.

Misinterpretation, we used to buy from J&L by the box load, they had to order in as at last year. Should be interpreted as quality gone down the pan, same as all other files. What used to last weeks before showing signs of wear, as of late only lasts a few days.

doubleboost · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »

I remember many years ago at technical colledge
We had to file a cube of steel 1 inch square then file a hole for it to fit (every way)

The files were all blunt

,at dinner time i went to a engineering supplier and bought a few new ones
I got a bolloking of the teacher for not using the same files as the rest of the lads .

When i pointed to one of the lads using my files he shook my hand and laughed.
If he had seen me roughing the job out to within 25 thou with the angle grinder he would have laughet a lot more

John

andyf · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:52:34 PM »

On the subject of old files, I've heard it said that a dull file can have some life put back into it by immersing it in battery acid (sulphuric) or brick cleaning acid (hydrochloric). Has anyone tried it?

I've also heard that leaving a dull file out in the garden for a month or so to get a bit rusty can help. Never tried it myself, but an old file I found somewhere with a light coating of rust all over it still seems pretty sharp.

Andy

Bluechip · « **Reply #33 on:** August 07, 2011, 05:10:36 PM »

Quote from: andyf on August 07, 2011, 04:52:34 PM

On the subject of old files, I've heard it said that a dull file can have some life put back into it by immersing it in battery acid (sulphuric) or brick cleaning acid (hydrochloric). Has anyone tried it?

I've also heard that leaving a dull file out in the garden for a month or so to get a bit rusty can help. Never tried it myself, but an old file I found somewhere with a light coating of rust all over it still seems pretty sharp.

Andy

It's called 'Re-generating'.
When I first started work, the firm I worked for did the production operatives files.
IIRC it's a mix of Nitric & Hydrochloric acid, very nasty but effective.

As an aside, if you get a file pinned with aluminium, you can clean the crap out by dunking it in a solution ordinary washing soda in water. ( Sodium Carbonate ). Just a good spoonful in about 1/2 pint or so. The ally will fizz and drop out. I'm not too keen on using wire brushes in single cut files.

BC

Some reference here ...

http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/general-discussion/resharpening-dull-files

Scroll down ... a fair bit ...

raynerd · « **Reply #34 on:** August 08, 2011, 02:41:25 AM »

What is the best way to clean little fine cut needle files? I`m only using them on brass and they never seem to clog but they do go a brassy colour which seems like it could do with cleaning out - just a brush?

Chris

Jonny · « **Reply #35 on:** August 08, 2011, 07:03:21 PM »

Quote from: doubleboost on August 07, 2011, 04:45:46 PM

We had to file a cube of steel 1 inch square then file a hole for it to fit (every way)

Hope you were handed 2" square tool steel block complete with mill scale

Thats bad when you have to work with laser cut stuff on a hardenable steel to microns finished, too big to fit in the forge to anneal.

Hydrochloric i use to use for cleaning aluminium prior to anodising at 19%, drain cleaner is a very diluted form. It can bring some life back in to courser pitch files but they dont last very long. To give you some idea a brand new file may last 5 days, a rejuvenated one 1 to 2 days and wont take a second attempt.

Anzaniste · « **Reply #36 on:** August 09, 2011, 10:11:03 AM »

I alway think of Amazon as a book site but the sell magicut files, see here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nicholson-Horse-Rasp-Magicut-14in/dp/B00002N7SH/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1312898905&sr=1-1.
They want to be good at that price.

J Harp · « **Reply #37 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:51:00 AM »

Use regular household vinegar to sharpen files, no need for the stronger acids which can be nasty to handle or breathe the fumes, some acids give off fumes which will rust any steel in your shop. I use a length of PVC pipe with a cap on one end and a wire bail on the other. Suspend the file by jamming the tang in a hole in a small scrap of wood, and fill the container with vinegar to cover the teeth. leave the file in the vinegar from overnight to several days depending on how dull it is. When removed from the vinegar the file will be covered by black junk, use a brass brush under hot running water to remove the black stuff, then dry the file with a towel, it will rust quickly if left damp. Use only a brass brush, a steel brush or file card will dull the file instantly.

If you are forgetful like me and leave the file in the vinegar for two weeks, it won't disappear, but it will certainly be sharp. Flea market or car boot files may need to be degreased before the vinegar treatment.

ieezitin · « **Reply #38 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:58:42 PM »

While searching came across this thread….

You don’t have to use nasty stuff like acid or horrible products to reclaim dull blunt files…… throw them outside in the garden on the ground and let the rain and moisture do the rest, oxidation of the teeth microscopically removes sufficient amount of metal from the rounded edge of the tooth to render them sharp again.

I use rags to wrap my files and as someone mentioned earlier in this thread I colour code the ends..

Anthony….

SwarfnStuff · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2014, 02:42:29 AM »

Hi ieezitin,
Trouble is that downunder where I live we have had very little of the wet stuff lately. Good for the Solar panels but not for the garden or file sharpening. Oh Well, Vinegar is cheap and safe enough to drink (sort of

). Better if it is around pickled onions or similar though.

Lew_Merrick_PE · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2014, 12:23:40 PM »

Jim's method (a couple of messages above) is the one I use. My variation on it is to place the files in the oven at 250°F (120°C) to complete the drying process. I then either coat them with mineral oil or chalk them thoroughly for storage (in leather sleeves in a closed box with silicate dehumidifying packs for the chalked files). This works well here in western Washington State where our motto is, We don't tan, we rust!

Henning · « **Reply #41 on:** March 21, 2014, 05:22:54 PM »

Nice posts about files!

If there's anyone here ever done an apprenticeship in gunsmithing like i did, they would know their files like the back of their hands.
We had lessons...!

I can not add much to the great info already here, except that a file worn is an asset for other tools. Knives, for instance, or gravers or the like.

And that Valorbe still make pretty good files, but the best i've ever had was from a Swedish maker named Øberg. Best files i've ever tried, i still have one from gunsmithing school.

Jonny · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:29:59 PM »

There has never been any schools for high class stuff, you learned the hard way in at the deep end. If couldn't hack it, you were out.

The last thing you want to do is oil a file.

Used to feel 3 square 12" bastards go off after 2 hrs, like tennis elbow on day three. Sheepishly ask for a new file the next week.
Recuts/acid etched and the like totally had it after 1/5 the time of a new one, this is after sorting and trying to find a good one. Some recuts look like they came back second cut while others looked fine but wouldn't cut, therefore not cost effective. For the recuts to work they have to have a relatively sharp edge already, in our case that would be at day 1, recut at that stage would last 3 hrs with 1 in 3 files scrap.

Had a fair few old Stubs they lasted and cut well.
Vallorbe 2nd cut went off around 2002 very good before then as was most hacksaw blades.

Lew_Merrick_PE · « **Reply #43 on:** March 23, 2014, 11:22:01 AM »

Quote from: Jonny on March 22, 2014, 08:29:59 PM

The last thing you want to do is oil a file.

If you live in an area with high humidity, oiling a file for storage if often absolutely necessary. There are also operations where only a well-oiled file will work properly (such as doing the final finish burnish of zero-clearance hard piston for a slider-valve). I will agree that in general you want to work with a dry (and chalked) file, but there are exceptions to that generality.

Jonny · « **Reply #44 on:** March 23, 2014, 03:58:43 PM »

Simple answer to that Lew is use the damn thing the rust will come off first push of the file. Wont make no odds when rust is in the cutouts, its the peaks as in cutting edges. End of the day its a tool and tools wear out.

Yes we did use oil on fine files, usually worn out three square 6" for finishing high class lock plates. Reduced pickup and glided across the steel barely doing anything. Personally better off with a fine wet and dry pulled tight where you can still remove high spots and blend in the lows, carefull on start edge it will round over.
Also brings up many antics "whos been using my file" "whos nicked my file an oiled it" We each had specific files only used for oil, new ones useless if oiled takes around 8 or 9 times the effort to achieve same unoiled cut.

Alan Haisley · « **Reply #45 on:** March 30, 2014, 09:29:15 PM »

The most important lesson my dad taught me about filing was to never drag the file back across the work. I've also found that forward motion without the right pressure to cut will speed dulling.

I never had a trade school or apprenticeship training in use of files and so wonder how many other concepts like this are so ingrained in all of you metalworkers that you don't even think to mention them.

Alan

Lew_Merrick_PE · « **Reply #46 on:** March 31, 2014, 10:52:24 AM »

Quote from: Alan Haisley on March 30, 2014, 09:29:15 PM

I never had a trade school or apprenticeship training in use of files and so wonder how many other concepts like this are so ingrained in all of you metalworkers that you don't even think to mention them.

This falls under the knows the subject too well to teach it category. I sharpen cutting edges (sufficient to impress US Navy SEAL teams) to a fair-thee-well and have been doing so since I was 8 years old. I am probably the worst person in the world to attempt to teach another how to do this as it is reflex rather than considered action on my part. I say this because, back in college, I was tapped to teach an industrial arts class on sharpening plane irons and was a miserable failure at the teaching part...

vtsteam · « **Reply #47 on:** May 19, 2014, 07:46:50 AM »

Not mentioned so far but I've found files often have a very slightly concave and a convex side not noticeable when filing small parts, but it definitely comes into play when flattening a larger area before hand scraping -- discovered that when building my lathe. Ideally they would be perfectly flat, but it is possible to make use of the slight difference in a curved file when filing. I grew to know which files, and which sides, did what, and sometimes used that to good effect.

Manxmodder · « **Reply #48 on:** May 19, 2014, 12:34:43 PM »

All of my bench files have a belly or slight curve to them. I seem to remember being told that all bench files are slightly curved in shape.....OZ.

mattinker · « **Reply #49 on:** May 19, 2014, 02:51:45 PM »

Quote from: Manxmodder on May 19, 2014, 12:34:43 PM

All of my bench files have a belly or slight curve to them. I seem to remember being told that all bench files are slightly curved in shape.....OZ.

I confirm, you cant file flat with a flat file!

Regards, Matthew.

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Author Topic: Trust Old Files (Read 32522 times)

bogstandard

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Rob.Wilson