Author Topic: Stove Black  (Read 5309 times)

Offline Manxmodder

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Stove Black
« on: July 15, 2016, 03:22:23 PM »
Hi Modders, I have a couple of ideas I'd like to run by you guys to see if anyone has a better solution.

A close friend of mine who I help with engineering matters has a water mill with the wheel driving 3 phase alternators feeding in to the grid on feed in tariff.

The wheel is obviously outside,but the generation side and old mill equipment is all in the mill building.

Inside the mill there are a number of old redundant iron bevel gears from the original grain milling machinery(approx 3 foot dia) which said friend wishes to keep as part of a static display for posterity.

We were discussing what would be the most suitable product to put a period finish on the old gears and I have suggested using colloidal stove blackening (Zeebrite) and burnishing it up to give a graphite black sheen.

I have never used Zeebrite type blacking before so wondered what your experiences were with it.

We have ruled out using any type of paint as it would be too uniform/perfect for the effect we're trying to attain.

Another thought crossed my mind that I could make my own effective graphite blacking compound by using shoe polish/dubbing wax and finely powdered graphite. What do you guys reckon?......OZ.
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Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 03:40:06 PM »

Shades of Charles Dickens, perhaps? :lol:

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 05:56:37 PM »
Cheers for that,it's a great help. Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered.
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Offline doubleboost

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 06:58:26 PM »
I use powdered graphite mixed with olive oil on my wood burner
Much cheaper than commercial blacking compounds
It works great
John

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 08:43:44 PM »
Thanks John :thumbup:

I've got a half bottle of olive oil that's past its use by date so I'll powder up some graphite in the mortar and pestle and give that a go on my own wood stove for a trial.

I'm guessing you keep a stock of graphite powder for facing your sand molds.....OZ.
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 02:50:19 AM »
I have used Liberon "Iron Paste" on a few Cast fireplaces and other odd bits of ironwork, tends to let more of teh bare metal show through than Zeebrite. Has a waxy consistancy much like old boot polish.


http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-iron-paste-510257

This one I stripped off many layers of paint from

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/work/PICT0048.jpg

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 03:38:34 AM »
Our family has been using one commercial stove black, that contains whole lot of graphite, has to mixed well, rubbed, heated to set (or it will stick anything that touches it) and when it cools, brushed loose stuff out. It produces traditional fireplace black color.

They sound pretty big objects and you may not want to heat them up, they might contain old paints and stuff, very probably lead, not a good idea to heat.

I pretty much just would take away the biggest muck and put them into a display on mesh they had....to show some functionality. I would leave them "dirty", they were used that way.

Mild phosphorous accid (easy to find mixture of citric and phosphorous accid mixture is tea ketlle lime rover from grocey store) will produce steel grey you are after, just need to very clean surface first.

Pekka
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 04:32:25 AM by PekkaNF »

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2016, 04:01:42 AM »
I have used Liberon "Iron Paste" on a few Cast fireplaces and other odd bits of ironwork, tends to let more of teh bare metal show through than Zeebrite. Has a waxy consistancy much like old boot polish.


http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-iron-paste-510257

This one I stripped off many layers of paint from

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/work/PICT0048.jpg

Cheers Jason, the description you give of the stuff being 'waxy' is what made me think of mixing clear boot dubbing with graphite.

I'm going to give John's olive oil compound a go later today.....OZ.
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Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2016, 04:09:21 AM »
Pekka,the gears are already in mesh with each other as they are all still mounted in the original yokes,so no work needed on that front.

There is no paint on them,just old grease & oil and no rust at all.

I certainly won't be using anything that requires heating them......OZ.
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Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 07:07:03 PM »
Olive oil and powdered graphite mix made and applied to top of stove for test.

It spreads out nicely and even as a paste when applied with a soft toothbrush,so I'll leave it till tomorrow and give it a light buff with a soft cloth and light the stove and see what I end up with........OZ.
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Offline mattinker

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 08:05:04 PM »
Pekka,the gears are already in mesh with each other as they are all still mounted in the original yokes,so no work needed on that front.

There is no paint on them,just old grease & oil and no rust at all.

I certainly won't be using anything that requires heating them......OZ.

Just a thought, as it's not going to get heated, linseed oil would be better than olive oil just for it's drying qualities.

Regards, matthew

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 01:40:16 AM »
Mathew,thanks for your suggestion and yes it crossed my mind and I agree with your logic here.

In my younger career days I spent 4 years working as a glassmaker/glassblower trainee.

In that profession cast iron molds are are often used to form the external shape of large decanters,wine carafes,goblets and vases.
The molten glass being blown to form by a blower who stands on an elevated platform to give him sufficient reach over the length of the blowing iron,whilst the mold operator(usually the trainee) squats at ground level to open and close the iron mold as required.

To ensure a flawless exterior surface finish on the glass items the molds require a lining of powdered cork be bonded to the inner faces and for this purpose we used boiled linseed as the bonding agent for the cork.

After a mold had been re-lined with cork powder the lining was set by heating in a kiln and final tempered by blowing several test pieces through the mold to bed the lining in.

I know I've waffled on a bit but it is the 'watercooler' and I had great passion then, as I still do today, for the hand made glass trade.

Boiled linseed sets up to such a hard shellac like compound that media blasting is often the only thing effective to completely remove it.

I'm trying Doubleboost's method out as I have every confidence that if John says it works then it's well worth giving it a go.

Also worth noting that all vegetable based oils seem to have a drying/thickening characteristic if heated or oxidised so olive oil is also likely to dry and set,though perhaps not as hard as boiled linseed.......OZ.

Edited to add: Mathew, you've got me thinking now......perhaps mixing powdered graphite with danish oil would also be worth a try.  Danish oil  is designed to air dry.
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Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 04:45:18 AM »
Stove lit and slowly brought up to high temperature.......the whole house smells like a bakery  :drool: very much the same as when I bake bread.

After sitting at high temp for a few minutes I turned the air controls right down and waited for the heat to drop and then a light buffing with a soft cotton rag brings forth a really nice black graphite lustre  :D

Thanks John,that works very well. If nothing else it has given me a sound basis to build on for other experimental blacking compounds.
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Offline DMIOM

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 06:35:12 AM »
Stove lit and slowly brought up to high temperature.......

Is that why it's so hot today!  :coffee:

(p.s. which Mill is the machinery in? - is it one of those in the Examiner today perchance?)

Dave

Offline mattinker

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 06:54:41 AM »
OZ,
I suggested linseed oil as it is a well known drying oil for which there are well known siccatives (drying agents) and it was the base for paints and varnishes. I don't doubt for an instant that Olive oil will work on a stove, just I know linseed oil will work without heat!

Regards, Matthew

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 07:06:42 AM »
Hi Mathew,yes I know about linseed and drier additives from previous experience of having made traditional oil scumble mixtures for faux graining and marbling.

In my previous posts I thought I had made myself more clear I didn't necessarily believe olive oil was the answer to cold blacking compound I need for the mill gears.

That is why I originally thought of waxes and latterly Danish oil.

John's compound has worked real good on the stove and I will use it more in the future for that purpose.....OZ.

Thanks for your contribution it's all really useful to the thinking it out process
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Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 11:55:12 AM »
Is that why it's so hot today!  :coffee:



   I assure you it wasn't lit for a moment longer than needed,the back door and windows were all open and I retired to yard with a cup of tea.

On a side note, as I have been gradually improving my house insulation levels over time and fitting replacement low emissivity glazing it shows as lower temp setting on the wood burner being required and quite a lot less fuel throughput...even when it is freezing cold outside.

By the time I get the underfloor space insulated I'd guess it will be really economical to keep the place warm........OZ
Dave
[/quote]
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:13:58 PM by Manxmodder »
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Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 01:27:54 PM »
I'd go with Danish oil but EXTREME CARE with the rags you apply it with.  As you no doubt know it can self ignite in rags as they dry and mixing graphite with it might accelerate this.

For ease have you considered a quick blow over with acrylic matt black lacquer first to give effectively a back ground black then applyyour Danish mix over the top? Danish on metal works ( you should see my lathe bed sometimes) as a rust stopper. :med:

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2016, 09:15:24 AM »
Eureka!  Found an ancient tin of Danish oil this morning (and a bottle of quick drying linseed oil)

Some old graphite electrodes were powdered up nice and fine and a paste mixture created by the addition of the Danish oil.

For test the mix was applied to some old iron castings kicking around the shop,dried and rag burnished and bingo I have exactly the result I'm looking for.

howsitwork,I fancy that the addition of the graphite powder is indeed accelerating the drying time for the oil. The rags etc.were all escorted of the premises soon after the job was done......OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Stove Black
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2016, 12:56:02 PM »
A little update to the experiment: So I thought why not give the Danish oil mixture a try on a hot surface like my wood stove. If it goes wrong I can always scutch it off with coarse wire wool and a wire brush.

...No such worries,I did the whole stove with the Danish oil and graphite paste let it dry,fired her up and raised the temp slowly to very high and let it cool. A quick burnish with an old shoe polishing brush and a soft cotton rag and all is black and lustrous. Ran the stove for a few hours since and all is well.

So it seems fair to say that and the the olive oil mix are both winners.....Doubleboost,double bonus...so to speak....OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up