Author Topic: X2 belt drive conversion  (Read 64457 times)

Offline websterz

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2009, 08:57:02 PM »
Very nicely done!! I will "file" away that keyway tip for future reference.  :thumbup:
"In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.  Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal."
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2009, 02:12:48 AM »
When trying to cut the keyway I found that the pressure would rotate the QC-toolpost, digging the tool in harder and causing progress to stop.
But I still had the same problem of the tool digging in and rotating the toolpost holder. I tried to tighten the toolpost holder up but only succeeded in breaking off the handle on the toolpost  :doh: :bang:

Very nicely done Tim!

If it works...... It`s ok.....   :clap:

Thought you might like to see my little mod to allow the toolpost to rotate, only when I want it to.....  :thumbup:

A small piece of 1/8" plate, held with a 6mm caphead.




Locked.




Unlocked.



Works very well.....  :thumbup:

David D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 02:14:41 AM by Stilldrillin »
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2009, 02:16:11 AM »
Nice neat mod there David I like it.  :thumbup:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2009, 05:50:46 AM »
Thought you might like to see my little mod to allow the toolpost to rotate, only when I want it to.....  :thumbup:

A small piece of 1/8" plate, held with a 6mm caphead.

Thats neat, but what stops clockwise (as you look down on the toolpost) rotation?


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

bogstandard

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2009, 06:18:12 AM »
If you have a look at your topslide with the toolpost off, there is usually a hole drilled into the top.

If you can make a matching hole in the bottom of your toolpost, it is just a matter of making a slug to drop into the hole and put the toolpost onto it. This will effectively lock up your toolpost and prevent it turning. Just take the slug out and you can then set your toolpost to angles again.


John


Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2009, 07:44:08 AM »
If you have a look at your topslide with the toolpost off, there is usually a hole drilled into the top.
If you can make a matching hole in the bottom of your toolpost, it is just a matter of making a slug to drop into the hole and put the toolpost onto it. This will effectively lock up your toolpost and prevent it turning. Just take the slug out and you can then set your toolpost to angles again.
That's a handy tip, I think I'll use that one, thanks John  :thumbup:


I got a little time this morning to install the spindle locking slot into the Pulley I just made. I probably should've milled the slot before turning the V sections, but you live and learn.

This is how I clamped it up using a V-block, some spare round bar that was a bit smaller than the bore, and the clamping kit for my mill. I double checked that the bar was not unevenly pulling the pulley off square and plumb, and then tweaked it tighter.



another angle



and then just milled it out with a 6mm mill, and then widened the slot to 8mm. It was pretty rock solid, but even though, I took my time and did not plunge through the 8mm or so thickness in one pass, I think I took off about 1-1.5mm per pass of the middle, and then to widen out the slot I had the mill at full depth and took 1mm off each side in 3 passes (that is 3 passes of 0.33mm not 3 1mm passes  :lol:)



Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2009, 08:16:20 AM »
Thought you might like to see my little mod to allow the toolpost to rotate, only when I want it to.....  :thumbup:

A small piece of 1/8" plate, held with a 6mm caphead.

Thats neat, but what stops clockwise (as you look down on the toolpost) rotation?

Tim

Tim,

There`s a spring loaded rachet/ plunger in the topslide, which only allows it to be rotated anti clockwise.....

It`s probably in the hole which John`s used for his locating pin!

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2009, 12:59:43 PM »
There`s a spring loaded rachet/ plunger in the topslide, which only allows it to be rotated anti clockwise.....

It`s probably in the hole which John`s used for his locating pin!

Ah yes, I remember taking that spring loaded pin out, I found it irritating having to spin it 360degrees  just to turn it a little amount clockwise  :bang:


I got a little more done this afternoon, I chucked up a chunk of 50mm ali round bar, turned a 15mm spigot 4mm long on one end. then I reversed it in the 4jaws and turned it down to 1.7" as per the plans for the larger section of the small pulley for the motor.

I also ground up a 5/16" hss toolbit to form the 32degree V-section as per the plans.

I then formed the 1st section of the V pulley



And that's all for today folks,


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2009, 03:17:18 PM »
You know the large pully - what is the m6 set screw for, does it go through key-way and if it is to lock it to the spindle - how will you get through it to tighten it with the base plate in the way? Sorry for my ignorance - it has just been confusing me.

Chris

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2009, 03:50:11 PM »
You know the large pully - what is the m6 set screw for, does it go through key-way and if it is to lock it to the spindle - how will you get through it to tighten it with the base plate in the way? Sorry for my ignorance - it has just been confusing me.

Chris

I think it is an additional fixing method, I dont know why its there as the locking ring will hold the pulley on the spindle, and the keyway will lock the pulley from being able to freely rotate. If you do install one, if you position it on the same plane as the spindle-locking-slot-hole you should be able to tighten the set-screw through the spindle lock hole in the baseplate.


Hope that makes some sense.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2009, 04:49:21 PM »
Yes - perfect sense and thanks for your suggestion. Chris

bogstandard

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2009, 05:35:18 PM »
Normally when a grub screw is used and it locks against the key, it serves two purposes.

The first is to stop the key moving along and back and side to side in it's slot, thus preventing wear on either the key or the slot.

The second reason is if the slot in the pulley is not as tight as it should be, it creates a mechanical lock that prevents the pulley rotating slightly around the shaft and key. Again this is to prevent excess wear.

If you don't understand the mechanics of the reason to put it in there, it is always better to put it in anyway.

It is called 'belt and braces' or 'just in case' engineering.


John
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 05:57:55 PM by bogstandard »

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2009, 02:09:30 AM »
it serves two purposes. ......   to stop the key moving along and back and side to side in it's slot, thus preventing wear on either the key or the slot.
...... if the slot in the pulley is not as tight as it should be, it creates a mechanical lock that prevents the pulley rotating slightly around the shaft and key. Again this is to prevent excess wear.

Thanks John for explaining that, it makes sense now I understand that. The original spacer on the X2 is made out of steel and does not have a grub screw, I guess because it is a very tight, close fit to the spindle and key, and because of it being steel it would not wear so quickly. (and it would cost extra to have one  :lol:) In the belt conversion we will be removing the original steel spacer and replacing it with our newly made large pulley made out of Ali', and hence the need for a grub screw as John said to fix firmly the key in the slot (which, let's face it, on my pulley is not quite made to the same tolerence as the original spacer's slot)

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2009, 02:37:29 AM »
I see, I see

Quote
which, let's face it, on my pulley is not quite made to the same tolerence as the original spacer's slot


...and that will apply to me two fold!  :doh:

Chris

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2009, 02:11:18 PM »
So, After being away to london at the weekend, I managed to get back into the workshop. I left you all on the edges of your collective seats (  :lol: ) as I was part-way through making the small pulley. Well before I went away I managed to get the pulley finished, and got a start made on the base. I didnt get any pics as the camera was already packed for traveling.  :( I did use my boring bar in my mill for the first time which went ok. I bored out the hole in the base for the large pulley to fit through. I stepped up from 1/4" through to 1/2" drills, and then switched to using the boring bar, I took cuts of about 1.5mm per pass (total enlargement of hole per pass - 3mm).

After boring out the main pulley hole, the 4 fixing screw holes including clearance, voila



I then cut a little off one side to bring down the width to 3.4"(ish) from the 4" original size except from a little "ear" at the back to attach one of the spacers to. I then cut off a chunk of 1" square ali bar, and then milled down a section to make it fit and give the required clearance.



And this is where it will fit



While the vice was set up and the depth was still locked in I milled a small (2mm) rebate in the other spacer block so that it too will fit properly.



I then drilled and tapped and bored clearance holes in all the right places to attach the 2 "ears", and then attached said "ears"
Bottom view:


Top view:



And that is as far as I got today. Next will be the motor mount and also drilling and tapping the top of the "ears" and then clean the whole lot up, getting rid of all my marking (and re-marking) out.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2009, 03:05:52 PM »
Excellent job Tim. I like the "ear" idea, I don`t have any ally in stock large enough to include the sides all in one, so I may well use this idea. Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

Chris

Offline sbwhart

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2009, 03:47:41 PM »
Coming along nicely Tim  :clap:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2009, 12:46:22 PM »
Thanks guys  :thumbup:

I got some time in the workshop today and got started on the motor mount. I hacked off some more of the 4" x 1/2" ali flat plate and then milled both cut ends smooth. Then on went some marking out dye (big black marker  :lol: ) and then I marked it out.



Then I mounted it onto the mill with a sacrificial plate underneath and center drilled and then drilled through the 4 motor mounting holes, a pivot hole (drilled larger to accept a brass bush) and then a hole for enlarging for the motor pulley.

Then I dug out the faceplate, stuck it on the lathe and set about centering the motor mount. Then I removed the motor-mount and hacked off 2 corners to enable the motor-mount to turn without hitting the ways. :doh: (the curse of the small lathe).  I got the motor-mount roughly centered by mounting a drill the same size as the hole, into the tailstock, and using that to center it. After roughly centering and hand tightening the hold-downs, I removed the drill and mounted a Dti to get it accurately centered, then I tightened the bolts up fully and started to make the cut.



The boring completed.




Next step will be to mill out the curved slot on the motor mount, then make a brass bush, and then drill and tap the "ears".


That's it for today,


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2009, 01:56:17 PM »
Coming along Nice Tim!
SPiN Racing

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2009, 02:16:12 PM »
Ok, I got a little more done today. I started out by making a brass bush for the pivot pin on the lathe and boring the centre 6mm



And then pressed the bush into the motor-mount plate

I then drilled and tapped the 2 "ears" M6 and turned my attention to the curved slot. I knew that my tapped holes in the "ears" were not the same distance apart as the plans called for ( about 2.5mm narrower ) and wanting to make sure the slot was the right curvature and the right distance from the pivot I came up with a solution. Just mark out the underneath of the motor-mount with a black marker, then screw a M6 grub screw in the hole with the pointy end up, attach the motor-mount with a long M6 screw through the brass pivot pin and scrape a curved line.



I then clamped the belt-drive base to the mill, mounted the motor-mount onto the base (upside down so I could see the newly scribed line) and chain drilled the bulk of the slot out.



To clean up the slot I used a 6mm slotting mill in the same setup, but for this operation I removed my hands from anywhere near the cutter. I used a long F-wrench clamped onto the motor-mount to rotate the workpiece, taking very shallow cuts until the slot was made smooth. I also kept the pivot screw fairly tight but there was still a bit of vibration, esp' if I tried to take off too deep a cut. It may take longer, but many many shallow cuts felt safer than trying to do it in 2-3 passes.





Next I have to mill away some of the underneath of the motor-mount to reduce part of it from 1/2" to the 3/8" thickness called for in the plans, then I have to drill and tap the 2 pulleys for set-screws, check if the key-ways are deep/wide enough, make a spring loaded spindle locking pin, and then just try it all out when the belt arrives.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline sbwhart

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2009, 03:58:30 PM »
Well that was a nice bit of improvisation Tim, looked as though it worked well  :thumbup:

  :nrocks:  :mmr:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline CrewCab

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2009, 05:33:55 PM »
Nice work Tim, and great write up  :thumbup:

CC

Offline raynerd

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2009, 06:38:50 PM »
Nice job Tim. Your running ahead of me now, I`ve got  :proj: and keep working on my first engine build - I`m sure I`ll be inspired again once my belts arrived. How hard have the plates been in comparison with the pullys in terms of time taken, effort and thought. I thought I had it made once I`d done the pully but now looking at the motor plates, I think they look pretty tricky as well!
You have done an excellent job of adding the wings or ears, would it have been quite a bit easier if you had have had the full size material?

Chris
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 06:41:59 PM by craynerd »

Offline kvom

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2009, 09:51:16 PM »
FWIW, it's generally a bad idea to hold an endmill in a drill chuck.  Seems to have worked this time.  Nice job.

Offline spuddevans

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Re: X2 belt drive conversion
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2009, 04:30:18 AM »
Thanks Stew & CC  :thumbup:

How hard have the plates been in comparison with the pullys in terms of time taken, effort and thought.

Not that hard actually, they've taken less time in actual machining, but more time in setting up and marking out and thinking how to machine them.

 
Quote
You have done an excellent job of adding the wings or ears, would it have been quite a bit easier if you had have had the full size material?

It would've been neater looking, and possibly a bit easier, but it would've meant a lot of cutting (and I only have my right arm as a power hacksaw :lol: ) plus you still have to make the spacers, so why not use slightly bigger spacers and  bolt them on the side like I did?

FWIW, it's generally a bad idea to hold an endmill in a drill chuck.  Seems to have worked this time.  Nice job.

Thanks Kvom, that's a good reminder not to be lazy about using the best tool ( a collet ) for the job, not making do with the easiest tool.  (the drill chuck that was still mounted from chain drilling)


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME