Author Topic: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)  (Read 951 times)

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« on: March 06, 2018, 04:46:57 PM »
Been rather cold here until recently - well below freezing for several days running.

I happened to wander into the new Tractor Shed to be greeted by a slick of diesel spreading across the floor.

A quick look see revealed that the water separator plastic bowl had parted company from it's aluminium cast body. Now as the water separator is plumbed in deliberately as the lowest point in the fuel system (diesel floats on water) the entire 45 litres of diesel had been dumped onto the floor  :bang:

(Yes the tank was brim full - I always fill her up after a job to avoid condensation in the tank)

So how did this happen? Well some plonker  :palm: had totally forgotten to occasionally drain the water from the separator - a simple job as there is a thumb screw provided

. . . I won't forget in future I promise  :lol:

Postman brought a replacement this morning so the digger is mobile again 
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: au
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 12:10:01 AM »
Physics strikes again.
 Absolutely no consideration for us mere mortals.   :doh:
Guess you will keep it in mind from now on?
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Pete.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 864
  • Country: gb
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 04:37:41 AM »
That's a bummer losing 50 quids worth of diesel but thank goodness for power floated floors eh? It would have ruined a tamped slab.

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 05:32:07 AM »
Red diesel Pete so about 23 but still a total waste due to my negligence  :bang:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline b4dyc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Country: england
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 11:46:59 AM »
I used to own a MF30E and I always told others that used it that I turned the fuel tap off 1 To try to prevent theft and 2 in case someone cut a line. I had never thought about freezing as number 3  :lol:
I didn`t do it...

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »
Sadly no inline tap on the JCB - I suppose one could be fitted  :scratch:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 09:24:44 AM »
Came to the machine this morning to find ANOTHER diesel slick under it  :bang:

Seemed to be coming from the thumb screw that drains the water from the base of the sedimenter  that I replaced in March after that very cold period, but it was tight - but hang on, the clear bowl is slightly loose. It was nicely snugged up but not over tight so why loose now? Screwing it's central fixing bolt up a bit it took far too much for just a bit of rattling loose. So I removed it to have a look see.

. . . the central boss in the clear moulding has gone cloudy white with stress cracks radiating from it, and the base has domed in so much that the thumb screw is no longer upright and it's seating is distorted, hence the leak.

OK the supplier is replacing it, but WHY did it happen, and why won't it happen again? OK if I had swung on the fixing bolt like a gorilla and over tightened it maybe, but this is just an M6 bolt and the bowl seats on a rubber gasket - no need for massive tightening  :scratch:


I can only think that the plastic used isn't suitable - meanwhile I had to put it back dripping to drive the machine back into the tractor shed, and it's sitting dripping into a bucket, with the hoses clamped off with Mole Wrenches until the replacement arrives
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 02:12:50 PM »
Replacement bowl arrived by today's post, so I got on and changed it - (needed to use the JCB to level a spot to house a chicken shed)

It was very obvious how the replacement bowl had a flat seating, whereas the leaking one was grossly distorted.

. . . so how long before the new one does the same . . . .why should it not  :bang:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete49

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
  • Country: au
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 11:48:55 PM »
and a favourite saying of our dearly missed friend.........."Clumsy Bastard"
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Offline hermetic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 06:14:45 AM »
I hate ti say it Andrew, but that does look like the plastic is being attacked by the diesel, that whitenes and micro cracking is a dead giveaway, are there any additives like an antifreeze in the diesel?

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5975
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2018, 07:11:33 AM »
Not that I am aware of.

One remote possibility is that it's been sprayed with hydraulic oil. An adjacent oil cooler has a tiny split that occasionally weeps. Spare arrived damaged a couple of weeks ago, has now been replaced by the vendor and is another round tuit

BUT I'd have thought as both are petroleum derivatives hydraulic oil and diesel fuel wouldn't be too much different to the plastic  :scratch:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline David Jupp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Country: gb
  • Teesside - UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2018, 06:04:10 AM »
It's often when things are too similar to the plastic that you see deterioration.

Offline PekkaNF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Country: fi
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2018, 10:30:55 AM »
Another thing is that material has been wrong at manufacturer. Some cust cutting excercise, outsourcing, "same" material or whatever could trigger it. I have seen chansaw/lawn mover fuel lines and carburetor membranes work years and then disintegrate for whatever reason. I have seen a "clump" in a carburator bowl, after sored over winter unused. Nowadays there are all sorts of tweakings and additives (both fuel and plastics) and outcome of that lottery is sometimes crack on the plastic fuel line or bowl.

I have seen parts that will go bad in less than a year, then replacemet lasts one or 10 years...go figure. I would call that just a bad luck.

Is'n antofreeze for diesel basically petrol? Not that any sort of antifreese has much use nowadays.

Pekka

Offline David Jupp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Country: gb
  • Teesside - UK
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 12:24:35 PM »

Is'n antofreeze for diesel basically petrol? Not that any sort of antifreese has much use nowadays.

Pekka

Using petrol in diesel to prevent waxing is old hat.  Nowadays there are fancy anti-waxing additives in winter grade diesel - one that I happen to know a little about is a very low molecular weight Etylene Vinyl Acetate copolymer - having slightly different chemistry from the diesel, it disrupts the formation of wax crystals.  There are probably alternative approaches used too.

Offline PekkaNF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Country: fi
Re: Oops! Remember Water Freezes (JCB803)
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 03:33:53 PM »

Is'n antofreeze for diesel basically petrol? Not that any sort of antifreese has much use nowadays.

Pekka

Using petrol in diesel to prevent waxing is old hat.  Nowadays there are fancy anti-waxing additives in winter grade diesel - one that I happen to know a little about is a very low molecular weight Etylene Vinyl Acetate copolymer - having slightly different chemistry from the diesel, it disrupts the formation of wax crystals.  There are probably alternative approaches used too.

Thank you, that is nice to know.

We have every winter two grades of diesel: Winter and Arctic with filtering temperature of cold and piss cold. Pretty sure oil companies know what they are doing. Then again: Do companies who sell filter bows know what oil companies use?

Here hasn't been any use to use antifreeze on gasoline long time: most fuel contains more than enenoug alcohol to make antifreeze addition redundant and very few cars have carburetors. Situation with diesel is bit more complex, most car makers discourage using any consumer addititives, specially common rail injection models and people who use old tractors from 1920 - 1950 have learned trics that continue to be used.

Pekka