Author Topic: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion  (Read 20452 times)

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« on: May 25, 2009, 04:57:46 PM »
Hi Guys

I was going to hijack SpudEvans thread with some problems I was facing with the build of my belt conversion but think I better start my own thread although hope you will jump in with some hints Tim.

The plans I`m following are here: http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/beltdrive11.pdf

Basically I`ve got to the stage of cutting my V grooves for my pullys and I`ve made my first error. Basically the largest V groove is slightly lower than centre with "that section" of the pully, so the top wall of the groove next to the small spindle is a little too thick and obviously the bottom wall is a little thin. It was my error in calculation but rather than start again with the entire piece using my spare blank I have, do you think it will still work. I`m just thinking, the V groove is the correct shape just the band is going to be running on it about 0.02" lower than it should run.

If I was to continue, would you adjust the smaller spindle to match or do you think that the 0.02" will not make a noticable or problematic difference when running?

It is all a learning curve! - and I`m really enjoying it.

Chris

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 05:06:32 PM »
Here is a pic - should help you see what I have done. The gap/wall between the small and large pully is a little large and the the bottom wall a little thin. Consequently the pully will run about 0.02" lower than it should - will this realistically make a difference?



Chris

Offline spuddevans

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Country: 00
  • Portadown, Northern Ireland
    • My Photo website
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 05:18:24 PM »
Hi Chris, I did something similar on my large pulley but with the smaller of the 2 V sections, I plan on matching the Motor's pulley to have the same spacing from center to center of the V sections.

But I dont think it's going to make a difference even if you didnt match the other pulley. So long as the belt does not rub on the baseplate on yours. If it does the solution might be to mill out a pathway into the baseplate to match where the belt would rub.


By the way, can I ask how you turned the V sections on your pulley?


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Darren

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3795
  • N/Wales
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 05:27:29 PM »
Interesting, I didn't think a 7x12 would be able to make a plunge cut like that?

Even my larger lathe might object  :bang:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:40:17 PM by Darren »
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline websterz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 08:53:08 PM »
Interesting, I didn't think a 7x12 would be able to make a plunge cut like that?

Even my larger lathe might object  :bang:

I made my mill pulleys on my 7x12. I cut the narrow dimension by plunging with a parting tool, then finished off with a form tool I ground for the project. It chattered like a squirrel but I was able to clean it up. Actually a little chatter may not be bad...gives the belt something to grab on to.  :dremel:
"In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.  Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal."
 :med:

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 02:27:45 AM »
Hi Guys

Darren, my 7x12 had no problem with the pully sections - it was turning down the 3" dia. at the shaft end that took forever.


Spud - I turned it down in a similar way you you only I used a parting tool to take it down to deapth and then a forming tool like you made to take down the sides - the parting tool just removed some of the meat in the way.

I think I`m going to continue and I`ll make the small pully to plan - if there is a problem due to the error then I`ll either mill the base plate to stop it rubbing or need be, reproduce the large pully. I`d rather continue to plan rather than adapt the small pully and then come across a different problem.

Today I plan on doing the key way - should we have drilled the hole for the spindle lock earlier only is it not going to be harder to hold in the vice for drilling/milling now with the pullys formed?

Chris

Offline spuddevans

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Country: 00
  • Portadown, Northern Ireland
    • My Photo website
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 05:47:48 AM »
Today I plan on doing the key way - should we have drilled the hole for the spindle lock earlier only is it not going to be harder to hold in the vice for drilling/milling now with the pullys formed?

Yea, we probably should've drilled/milled that hole first, but maybe grip it in the vice by the turned-down section in Vblocks, with the pulleys hanging outside the edge of the jaws?


Have fun with the key way  :lol:

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline spuddevans

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Country: 00
  • Portadown, Northern Ireland
    • My Photo website
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 07:46:53 AM »
Yea, we probably should've drilled/milled that hole first, but maybe grip it in the vice by the turned-down section in Vblocks, with the pulleys hanging outside the edge of the jaws?

Hi Chris, after posting the above I went out to the workshop and milled the slot for the spindle lock, you can see pics of my clamping setup for the large pulley in my build-log-thread-thingy. It was easier than I thought, but take your time setting up and clamping to make sure that it is good and solid and square/plumb too.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2009, 02:46:13 AM »
Well I have now made further progress - I have used my mill for the first time to produce the slot for the spindle lock and I must say, I was more than pleased with the results. It cut very easily and I used the DRO which was a huge huge help - very impressed and will certainly be purchasing a DRO main display and maybe fitting something to my mini lathe. I have also taken away some of the material to cut the keyway. I tried to setup on the lathe as Tim has done in his post - I just couldn`t get the "shaper" idea to work - the tool keep pushing up against the job rather than taking away any material. I had a look last night and used a file - I think I`m going to just file it out and take my time - with the mill disassembled I`ll keep checking it on the actual spindle.


Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2009, 09:27:08 AM »
Further to Johns message over in Tims "belt Conversion" thread - I still don`t see how the key way is going to need a grub screw or even take a grub screw for that matter? - will it simply just tighten up against the key?

I could understand if the key itself in the spindle is removed from the key way and the grub screw is used in replace of the key to lock it all up.  This would also remove the need for making/'shaping this difficult key-way. Would it not be secure enough if the key was removed from the key way and grub screw used to hold the pully in place?

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2009, 06:55:10 PM »
Well I`m so pleased - I`ve managed to finish the main pulley for the belt conversion - key-way is cut and fits like a glove, no movement at all. I need to drill and tap the grub screw yet but I`ll do that later when I have the base plate so that I can ensure the position aligns with the spindle lock hole. I know this is probably run of the mill stuff for you guys, but making this, and more impressively actually having it fit has been a real confidence booster. I can`t actually believe I have made it! I can`t see the smaller pully being too much of an issue after turning this one - then it is on to the base and motor plates.

The only error I made was taking the V groove a little low on the larger pully but I`ve been looking at it and I really don`t think it`ll make a difference. I was concerned the belt may rub but it is slightly elevated anyway.

The keyway was a pain. It took me a good few hours and I resorted to going to RDG tools, buying a file the correct width that fit the collar with the machined original key way. Once I had this it was much easier as it was just a case of filing straight along the line I had already milled a little to get it square.

I am sad enought that I made a video  :lol:  :doh: ....enjoy



Chris

Offline websterz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 12:30:19 PM »
Well I`m so pleased - I`ve managed to finish the main pulley for the belt conversion - key-way is cut and fits like a glove, no movement at all. I need to drill and tap the grub screw yet but I`ll do that later when I have the base plate so that I can ensure the position aligns with the spindle lock hole. I know this is probably run of the mill stuff for you guys, but making this, and more impressively actually having it fit has been a real confidence booster. I can`t actually believe I have made it! I can`t see the smaller pully being too much of an issue after turning this one - then it is on to the base and motor plates.

The only error I made was taking the V groove a little low on the larger pully but I`ve been looking at it and I really don`t think it`ll make a difference. I was concerned the belt may rub but it is slightly elevated anyway.

The keyway was a pain. It took me a good few hours and I resorted to going to RDG tools, buying a file the correct width that fit the collar with the machined original key way. Once I had this it was much easier as it was just a case of filing straight along the line I had already milled a little to get it square.

I am sad enought that I made a video  :lol:  :doh: ....enjoy



Chris

You are sailing right along the learning curve Chris. I have spent weeks doing hands-on training with guys who didn't come along as quickly as you are. Definitely something to be proud of!! I guess some folks are just born metalworkers.  :beer: :thumbup:
"In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.  Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal."
 :med:

Offline kvom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 07:06:01 PM »
I made a pulley as a class project last summer.  I am wondering why you needed a form tool.  I used the parting tool with the compound set to the taper angle for the sides.

I was fortunate that at school we have broachs and an arbor press to cut the keyways.  Filling one would drive me nuts.  :hammer:

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2009, 02:06:54 AM »
Cheers Webby!

Kvom - you are right,  in retrospect I didn`t need a form tool. I`m new to this and I have copied most of the build from Tim (see SpudEvans belt conversion) and it looks like his lathe compound slide won`t set at 17deg, there is something in the way, I don`t know what lathe he has. So he made a forming tool, I saw what he had done, it worked,  I understood so I copied. I did use a parting tool to take away some of bulk and bring to depth, now I realise I could have used it to form the sides! Anyway, you live and learn. It worked!

What is an arbour press?

Offline kvom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2009, 09:14:49 AM »
I don't mind answering the broach question.  They are used to cut keyways in shaft holes, such as for pulleys.  You have a round sleeve the same diameter as the hole with a square cutout the same width as the key.  Put the sleeve into the pulley.  Then the broach, a tapered, rectangular cross-sectioned, serrated cutter that fits into the slot, is pressed down (arbor press!) cutting the keyway.

I have never done it, but it would seem to me that a ground HSS tool held in a tool post on a lathe ought to be able to cut a short keyway as long as the setup is rigid enough, and sufficiently small cuts are made..

I have a small 1-ton Palmgren arbor press bolted to my workbench.  It is useful for press-fit parts the size we use for models.  Of course, the jaws of a milling vise can also act as a press.  If I were to do it again I would get the 2-ton model.  That said, neither of these would likely be capable of broaching in steel.  The press at school is a big Dake model that is probably 15-20 ton.

Offline websterz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2009, 12:03:04 PM »
I have never done it, but it would seem to me that a ground HSS tool held in a tool post on a lathe ought to be able to cut a short keyway as long as the setup is rigid enough, and sufficiently small cuts are made..

Indeed it can. I have cut many keyways like that.
"In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.  Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal."
 :med:

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2009, 12:07:01 PM »
I think SpudEvans tried to cut the keyway this way - if you check out his belt conversion further down in the projecs forum. I did have a go but I found the tool pushing up against the work and not actually taking a bite - when I tried to progress to get a deaper cut it would just jam. Clearly I was doing something wrong but I did try this way!


Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2009, 12:34:56 PM »

Bernd - sure thing  :whip:

Thanks Chris.

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 03:51:29 PM »
I finally completed the project, I`ve have had it setup for about a week now and it seems to be working perfectly. It is certainly much quieter and obviously no future concerns about breaking any plastic gearing! I have also fitted a simple fignoogle DRO setup on this mill and I have to say I have been more than happy with it!  Just a short vid showing it working. I`ve mounted a pin on the front for locking the spindle exactly the same way Tim (spudevans) has done it and it looks really neat. Need to dismantle it down and buff it up - I think I`ll do it in a few weeks when I have some free time, functioning fine even though it isn`t shiny yet  :) :lol:



Thanks Tim for the comprehensive pictures in your project log, I would have struggled much more than I had without them.
Thanks Eric for helping us out with a source for the V-belts.

 :nrocks:

Chris

 

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2009, 04:00:38 PM »
Nice Job Chris  :clap:  :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3795
  • N/Wales
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2009, 04:25:15 PM »
Well that works, well done ..... :thumbup:

You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Country: us
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2009, 08:31:39 PM »
Glad I could help Chris! Nice job on making the project work.

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline spuddevans

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Country: 00
  • Portadown, Northern Ireland
    • My Photo website
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2009, 01:39:28 AM »
Well done Chris,  :clap: :clap: :clap: it's soo much quieter and smoother isnt it?


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2009, 02:44:28 AM »
Thanks guys,

Quote
"quieter and smoother isnt it"

It sure is! Certainly a worth while mod and probably cost me about £20 in materials. I didn`t have large enough scrap for the main pully or the base plate so I had to buy these in, which is where the money went. Still a lot cheaper than $130+ for the ready made ones - and much more fun!

Anyway, must go to work as it is 7:45am and I have been woken by my daughter at 6am and spent the last hour in the shop!!  Never mind swine flu, I have :proj: :proj: :proj: :proj:

Chris

Offline NickG

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1890
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2009, 05:54:15 AM »
Well done Chris, sounds like a good mod. A guy in our club has just bought an X2 so will point him in the direction of this, not sure whether forums are his thing so in that case I could print the article out if you don't mind?

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline raynerd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2893
  • Country: gb
    • Raynerds Projects - Raynerd.co.uk
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2009, 06:47:46 AM »
Nick - I would certainly suggest it and it is relatively easy in the grand scheme of things! - I got it to work so it can`t be that hard  :doh:

I recommend printing Tim`s thread out (if he doesn`t mind) - exactly the same thing and with much better descriptions and pictures : http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1245.0

Offline spuddevans

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Country: 00
  • Portadown, Northern Ireland
    • My Photo website
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2009, 07:33:30 AM »
I recommend printing Tim`s thread out (if he doesn`t mind)
I dont mind at all :thumbup:
Quote
- exactly the same thing and with much better descriptions and pictures : http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1245.0

Dont do yourself down, (let us do that  :lol: ) it's always good to read everybodies build thread as everyone will bring something different to the "engineering" table. We all can learn from each other  :coffee:, that's why we contribute to this forum.

I'm totally with you on recommending the belt-drive conversion, it is the best thing I did to my mill  :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline NickG

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1890
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2009, 06:00:23 AM »
Cheers guys.
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline CrewCab

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
Re: craynerd`s X2 belt conversion
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2009, 04:19:48 PM »
Nice job guys (Chris and Tim  :thumbup:  ) .............. I took the easy way out and bought mine, but you guys seem to have had far more fun  :headbang:

I'm liking the locking pin doo - dad ........... feel another X2 mod might be on the way ............ when I have a good tidy up and can get back into the workshop that is  ::)

CC