Author Topic: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?  (Read 1637 times)

Offline awemawson

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Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« on: April 30, 2018, 04:52:06 AM »
I've been doing a bit of woodwork recently, using among other tools my Planer / Thicknesser which is part of my Dominion Elliot combination woodworking machine.

Experiencing feed issues I realised that the lower table that wood slides on had a slight haze of rust from infrequent use. Now I use Silber Wax usually on woodworking machines but it does mark the timber.

I'd spotted a Beeswax Spray in the domestic stores - ideal I thought, a light beeswaxing and the spray should carry into the bits I cannot reach.

. . . this morning I took a look, and there was significant RUST where I'd sprayed  :bang:

There must be a load of water in the aerosol spray  :bugeye:

So, a good idea that went wrong but there must be a non-water-loaded wax spray - anyone know of one?

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline sparky961

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 05:49:17 AM »
You can dissolve beeswax into many solvents. Laqueur thinner comes to mind, but some less volatile might work too.

Offline chipenter

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 05:50:33 AM »
Our machinist used paraffin and oil mixture 50 50 , for lube and rust preventive .
Jeff

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 06:36:06 AM »
A bit of googling suggests dissolving beeswax in genuine turpentine, so I've ordered some from that amazing department store eBay  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline edward

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 01:02:43 PM »
would waxoyl or another car type wax work? I've an aerosol 'cavity wax' that I used on the car and also use on cycle parts. ACF50 might also work, I use that on the inside of steel bike frames and it seems to protect them.

Offline Pete.

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 02:12:52 PM »
Is it turpentine that you have to be careful that it doesn't spontaneously combust if you throw a load of rags with it on in the bin?

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 02:45:21 PM »
It has been known !

Painters overalls were a major safety concern when I owned some launderettes. Even having been washed they were a hazard if dried in a tumble drier and left warm over night. Strict condition from the insurers was that they were removed to cool before staff left for the evening  :bugeye:

Linseed oil is another problem, again painters overalls !


(we did have a major fire, but not from that cause)

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline krv3000

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 05:08:30 PM »
hi yes spray wax is out there 

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 06:11:19 AM »
OK I've received a gallon of genuine Turpentine and a kilo of Beeswax so the experiment begins:

My hand spray bottles are 500 ml, so 500 ml of the Turpentine into a Pyrex flask but how much Beeswax will dissolve into it :scratch: I weighed out 100 gms of Beeswax into another flask and started adding it slowly and stirring - it seems it's going to be a slow process.

No doubt a bit of heat would help, but Turpentine is very inflammable so maybe not too clever an idea  :zap:

I'll leave it for a few hours and if things aren't happening I'll put the bigger flask in a bowl of warm water.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 11:19:58 AM »
So time passes - like watching paint dry - a slow process.

Added a little heat in the form of a bowl of hot water, and continued adding the lentils of Beeswax and stirring it whenever I walked past. So far 25 grams are pretty well dissolved in the 500 ml of Turps - there are still one or two floaters of partial lentils.

I'll leave it in the bowl over night - no doubt the water will cool, so it may start to settle out of solution - at the moment the viscosity is OK for the hand pump spray bottle but when it cools it may need a bit more Turps adding - I hope not as I want to be able to leave a decent wax deposit on the machinery when the Turpentine evaporates.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 03:14:17 PM »
Surprisingly after supper I found that the water had cooled and the dissolving of the wax pellets was pretty well finished  :thumbup:

So I decided to filter it through a paint spraying filter, put it in the hand spray bottle and have a go at the machine table. A light coat of the wax solution and a gentle scotchbriting brought the table back to life - cleaned it off, gave it another spray, wiped it down and we'll see how the Turps evaporates overnight before I attack the rest of the machine
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 03:18:43 PM »
All this has encouraged me to at last sort out my extraction plumbing and make a simple box to extract from the thicknesser and rip saw when in use - by golly they kick out loads of wood plannings  :bugeye:

In celebration I put another 25 grams of Beeswax in 500 ml of Turpentine to leave over night and soak - maybe all that warming and agitation isn't needed
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 03:48:36 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 04:05:28 PM »
It dissolves pretty slow without heating, but if you give it a shake couple times a day it will dissolve in couple of days.

Pekka

Offline sparky961

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 08:52:13 PM »
Have you considered heating up the beeswax to liquid and pouring that into the Turpentine?  I don't know if it would just solidify immediately, or go into solution better.  It's something to try though.   Any idea how the flashpoints compare?  I think beeswax is fairly low, but higher than paraffin.

Setting up a double boiler over electric heat should be fairly safe.  Maybe use a hot plate outside to add some insurance.

I'm interested to see what sort of film/residue you ended up with after the turpentine evaporates.

Offline sparky961

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 08:56:34 PM »
One more thing: Don't you have any apiaries nearby?  That mylar space package of beeswax looks expensive!  Find a local honey producer and ask them about a couple kilos of bulk wax.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 02:03:02 AM »
The wax wasn't a major expense, it's the genuine Turpentine that's expensive.  £38 for a gallon inc postage. But a gallon will probably last me out.

Watching videos of Beeswax furniture polish being made they add molten wax to a mixture of Turps and boiled linseed oil in a 1:1:1 ratio. The wax coagulates then they leave it for a few weeks on a sunny window cill  and it turns into a soft paste.

The smell of my spray stuff is superb  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 05:56:25 AM »
Sparky,

The Turps has nicely evaporated on the machine bed over night, and the wax residue is nice and firm, giving that squeaky  feeling as you rub your fingers over it.

I tried scraping with a sharp wood chisel to see what sort of deposit was left, and apart from where I'd missed bits in the wiping process there was no perceptible wax coming off, (so probably a few tens or hundreds of molecules thick ) but I'm convinced it'll do the trick.

As a test I put a bit of water on the table and as expected it balls up with no wetting at all.

The beaker of extra Turps & Beeswax is slowly dissolving at room temperature and only the occasional stir  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2018, 06:53:21 AM »
Just turn upside down every now and then - it will be rady when you need. Bain-marie is only needed if you need to speed things up - or you are cooking hide glue (shudder).

I keep this sort of stuff in glass jars, stored upside down. Counter intuitive, but if there is even one componenet that will set in atmosphere the lid would glue up and there would be a skin in the jar.

Being eternal optimist, this sort of jars are stored in plastic tubs....I'm affraid cap seal leanking, that has never happened, but I have bumped down and crashed glass jar on the floor....makes interesting cleaning if it has any solvent and vax an/or linseedoil and the usual stuff.

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 08:49:48 AM »
Not a good idea Pekka - it's in a flask only covered with kitchen foil  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 12:34:51 PM »
You should get a jar of pickles....good to eat, then easy to put lid/jar onto dishwasher, label and then fill with your favorite flakes.

Beeswax probably does not oxidate  to hard residue, but when you decide with finishes you will find out that it makes pretty good glue. Linseed oil hardens to pretty tight.

Pekka

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2018, 04:04:39 PM »
Watching this with interest folks as I have used Waxolit which is a German table wax and brilliant. It seems to ave fine aluminium flakes in it but protects and lubriscates well. Thatís just as well considering the mortgage needed to buy it in the first place bu5 it sure goes a long way.

The beeswax idea just appeals,to the cook in me . I know lots of dishes that use honey. M8nd you I quite enjoy just chewing a bit of comb if I get the chance.

Keep us updated on surface resistance etc Andrew please.

Regards Ian

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2018, 04:42:58 PM »
I am well impressed with this stuff  :clap:

It is leaving a very nice thin waxed surface. Previously I've been using Silber Gleit  which is supposedly the bees knees, but I find that it's not too good at stopping surface rust unless it's put on really thickly, in which case it dries leaving lumps. I've now cleared all the Silber Gleit off and waxed it.

Having need just now to get a definite measurement for my Ripsaw spindle (1.25" / 31.75 mm) as I'm buying new blades I undid the large left handed nut that holds the 500 mm blade on, and promptly dropped it into the cowl that leads to the dust extractor  :bang:

Despite many contortions I couldn't reach it - so saw off / dust cover off / cowl off and eventually found it 6" up the extractor hose !

BUT, having got in so far it revealed a large compaction of sawdust round the elevating mechanism that must predate when I wired the extractor to come on with the saw, and my builder was using the machine on my house rebuild and he didn't always remember to turn it on manually. Clearing it all out let me spray my magic Beeswax on the sliding surfaces of the rise and fall table, and the spiral bevel gears of the height adjusting mechanism, all of which now work so much more smoothly.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2018, 10:18:26 PM »
The latest best anti-rust stuff for car undercoating here in Vermont, where salt on roads in winter does huge damage to auto underbodies is called FluidFilm. And it works! I spray some on every Fall.

I know Andrew you would probably prefer wax for woodworking table surfaces, in order not to mark wood, but elsewhere, this stuff is amazing.

Now, I know you have the ingredients to formulate this stuff at hand, Andrew, and in true Madmodder fashion I expect to see you producing your own DIY FluidFilm.

What is it? Lanolin and bit of finely chopped wool! The lanolin penetrates everything, the wool holds it in place. And your car or truck smells like a lamb chop when the exhaust first heats up for a day or so.

 :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 01:54:53 AM »
Steve, pure lanolin has been used for years to fight rust and as a water proofer. After all the sheep are out in all weathers and (usually) survive !

Bradford in Yorkshire was a major centre for Woollen cloth production from the beginning of the industrial revolution. Lots of lanolin was released by the processing, and was commercially extracted from the sewer water !

Somehow in this Ecco conscious age I doubt it still happens.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 03:33:52 AM »
Yup Andrew,
      Never seen a rusty sheep yet.   :ddb:
  Although here in Australia specially outback they can look rusty. Red dust, red dust and more red dust at times.
      Wool scouring plants don't usually suffer from rust either as protected by the lanolin. Pretty sure they have to extract it for environmental reasons now but it seems we ship the greasy wool to the likes of China and buy it back again. (Progress??)

  I grew up in the country areas but never on a farm except to visit for holidays etc.
  City dweller now (sigh). Still, essential services like Dr. Hospital are a lot closer when you need em!
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Offline wgw

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 04:49:32 AM »
Lanolin is very good for cracked skin. Here in GB mine comes from Australia, used to buy it in a cardboard box very cheap but its expensive now for rustproofing. Don't forget that anthrax is called "wool sorters desease".

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2018, 07:23:17 AM »
Steve, pure lanolin has been used for years to fight rust and as a water proofer. After all the sheep are out in all weathers and (usually) survive !

Bradford in Yorkshire was a major centre for Woollen cloth production from the beginning of the industrial revolution. Lots of lanolin was released by the processing, and was commercially extracted from the sewer water !

Somehow in this Ecco conscious age I doubt it still happens.

At one stage in my youth I did a bit of cave exploration.  The ladders we used had tubular rungs of Elektron tube attached to stranded steel 'stiles'.  The recommended maintenance treatment after use was to apply a solution of lanolin.  I don't remember what solvent was used, it might have been 'trike' or carbon tetrachloride!

Am I right in thinking 'Elektron' is an alloy of aluminium and magnesium?

The 'with it' method of climbing the ladder was to insert one foot in one side of the ladder and the next foot in the other side, quite tricky when you're trying to keep the jet from your acetylene helmet lamp from melting the nylon or Terylene safety rope!

I was eventually persuaded that SCUBA diving was a preferable way to get my exercise but the techniques of getting my far from slim body through small gaps still come in handy when I have to park the car close to another car or to a wall.   
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 12:42:07 PM »
Andrew, I knew you had the source right to hand. Why not build a CNC sheep squeezer to extract the stuff?

I assume it's the same process they must use to produce baby oil?  :hammer: :thumbup:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2018, 01:44:33 PM »
Well Steve, as it happens I HAVE just been squeezing a sheep, but for milk not lanolin ! Twins born a couple of weeks ago, both apparently thriving initially but last week one wouldn't feed from mum and going down hill rapidly. Vet reckoned Vitamin B1 deficiency (but why only one lamb  :scratch:) So a course of injections and we've been stomach feeding it with a tube. It's got to the stage now that it'll suck from a bottle but not from mum.

So earlier I had her on the ground on her back, titties upwards, held there firmly by my legs each side of her neck, and plonked lamb on the nipple. Lamb did take milk and mothers milk is far better for it than the substitute stuff. I reckon this lamb can't see very well - it has issues and may well not survive.

Hope this doesn't carry on too long - that Ewe is a Jacobs with sharp horns
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 05:02:02 PM »
I'd have to do some digging to find out for sure, but I think the mixture that blacksmiths wipe onto hand forged objects to protect them from rust is equal parts of beeswax, turpentine and linseed oil.

Just out of idle curiosity, how much beeswax were you able to get dissolved in the turpentine?

Don
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 05:11:22 PM »
Don, I only went as far a 25 grams in 500 millilitres

I'm quite sure I could have dissolved more given time and more warming, but I only wanted to lay a very  thin layer on the machines.

Beeswax, boiled linseed oil and Turpentine mixed 1:1:1 are the components of traditional furniture cream which in that ratio forms a paste.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2018, 02:27:31 AM »
Pure beeswax looks pretty on fourniture and can be buffed to luster repeatedly, the turpentine (or other solvent) is there to help spreading, but it spread without it on just a slightly warmer than room temperature. Pure beeswax softens at body temperature and if it used to finish chairs, your pants will absorbe wax while you widget in family function. Linseed oil (especially boiled linseed oil) will oxidize, harden and stabilize. Good news on fourniture finish, bad thing on metal objects if you ever need to move anything appart. It makes pretty good glue most of the times if it seeps in close fitting surfaces.

Pretty much all vegetable oils will "harden" given enough time. Been reading of Camelia oil being used traditonally for japanese hand tools to prevent rusting....
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Camellia-Oil-Spray-Rust-Protection-P407.aspx
Bought a little bottle of different brand. Really can't tell if it any better or worse of any other vegetable oil or wax. Scent is milder and it hardens slower than most oils, including raw linseed oil IMHO.

Main thing is to buy "raw" not cooked linseed oil, if you dont't want it to set. Cooked linseed oil is basically a warnishs. How I did found out? Long time ago I read how great linseed oil is, renovated bedroom, put very nice wall papers and made all mouldings from plank up. They looked very nice, "painted" them with raw linseed oil and dried them with a rag. Really nice, smooth lustre. Few days later I fitted them in place and admired my handiwork. Few months later I noticed that on many places the linseed oil started to seep into light blue wall paper. Yellowish blobs don't go well with light ble floral patterns. That prompted me to study a little deeper.

Pekka

Offline Will_D

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2018, 05:18:22 PM »
When I was shearing sheep on a Welsh hill farm in the late 60s after a week your Levis were totally waterproofed!

Has no-one mentioned Waxoil? Car I built in the 80s was full of it! Chasis rails were 4 x 2 by 3 mm steel box.
It was a Burlington Arrow built on a Triumph Vitesse donor. Straight 6, triple Webber 40s!!
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Offline nrml

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2018, 10:17:17 AM »
It's a bit of a late suggestion, but I'll add it anyway in case someone else comes searching someday. I use this https://www.bilthamber.com/dynax-uc for corrosion protection. It takes a few weeks to lose the tackiness but the performance cant be faulted. I have never had to re-spray it on a machine yet. The price isn't too bad either as a little goes a long way.


Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2018, 11:57:05 AM »
I bet none of these commercial alternatives smell as good as my Genuine Turpentine and Beeswax concoction.  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mcostello

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2018, 02:59:19 PM »
Do They make bees wax like They make baby oil?
High Speed steel in a Carbide world.

Offline appletree

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2018, 04:44:37 AM »
Back in the 70s when I was an apprentice we used to wash the lathe down wit an oil/paraffin mix, maybe 10 to 20% oil.
These days I mix slideway oil and automotive panel wipe mixture.
The panel wipe cleans the machine then leaves a very thin film of oil.
Obviously no use on wood working machinery, but would beeswax dissolve in panel wipe, to be fair I have only "speed" read this thread, but just wondered.

Phil     

Offline awemawson

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2018, 07:26:45 AM »
Phil, I'd be surprised if it didn't - it seems to dissolve in most spirity solvents - just the time taken seems to vary
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2018, 10:31:39 AM »
Pretty much all common oils, waxes and solvents work in rust retardant. And pretty much the only problem is with "wax" residue with finishing system. Best to clear off all silicon and such....problem being that many incredients are "trade secret" or low quantity (impurities etc.) that does not interest concotion marketer, but interests the person that sprays paint/laccure and it has million blisters.

Once I was renovating daugter's room and had considerable problme painting radior....after washing, stripping the pain, matting and the paint developed silicon tell tale blisters....had to ditch the paint, roller, brush and tray, lett the paint dry, wash it with silicon remover, mat, repaint. Clacking bell.

I have heard may times someone spraying the first dry lubricant or such "universal oil" on the garge on the thicknesplaner and then had troublem with laquere.

I would trust pretty much on besswax and "natural" solvents if my finish has same incredients.

Pekka

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2018, 01:11:26 PM »
Do paint and resin manufacturers still use silicones dissolved in carbon tetrachloride to stop modified resins foaming in gas kettles? :bang:

Anyone with practical knowledge comment on what happens today?

Regards

Norm

Offline russ57

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Re: Sprayable Wax - does it exist?
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2018, 01:31:11 AM »