Author Topic: Vibratory finisher project  (Read 13218 times)

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Vibratory finisher project
« on: May 25, 2009, 06:21:51 PM »
I posted this at the CNC Zone as well, but thought it might work okay here too. It's not a cnc project. ;)
I'm at the point where it takes me nearly a couple days to clean up maybe a week and a half worth of parts. I have thought about these for a little while and I was hesitant at first, but the more I saw, the more I think these will work fine for me. I'm gonna built at least one, maybe two.

I tried just some lava rock in my concrete mixer for only 10 minutes on a couple parts. I saw some good results from that test in that time, so I know a proper vibrator and media will do the job I need.

I have several of the items I will need on hand already. I have a propane tank from a fork lift. About 3' by 15" dia. I have a plastic 55 gallon drum. Even a failed sand blasting tank.
I think I will use the drum. These are typically lined with plastic anyway to keep from damaging parts.

Cut it to maybe 16" depth. Stiffen the new top with aluminum on the outside.

Install an 1/8" aluminum plate underneath for mounting.

The curious part will be the motor.
I have several to choose from. I have a new 1 HP Leeson motor I bought for my old band saw. I think it is 1750 RPM.

I have a mini mill or a mini lathe DC motor, both with the controls.
I am thinking I would like to use one of these. They may not actually be strong enough. Then again, how much torque would something like this need?

The drive mechanism will be key I think.
I have some thoughts on different ways to do this, but haven't seen many designs. I would like to see more if someone has one or a link.
I really like the idea of variable speed for this thing. That way I can make it vibrate just right to get the best out of it.


The plan is to finish 5 to 10 pounds of steel parts in 25 pounds of media. For steel I will use the 1/2 coarse ceramic type initially. I may add some smaller stuff to the mix depending.

If this all works okay, then I will make a smaller one for aluminum parts. Far fewer aluminum parts and not nearly the burrs on those, so much smaller media and of a different type.


For mounting, I would use maybe 6 springs around the bottom of the drum.

For the motor drive, I am thinking of a simple cam lobe on a steel disc. Not much of an offset. Maybe 1/2".
Then mount 6 or 8 roller skate bearings around this cam.
With the motor mounted solid to the frame and the tub on springs, this should work. May need to refit a different cam or something, but I think it might just do what I want.
I will get an drawing up of what I was thinking sometime.
Any input will be great appreciated.
Thanks.
Lee

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 06:26:00 PM »
Here is an initial image of the tub design part. The red things are compression springs.

I was looking at my motors and the one I thought was 1HP is actually only 1/2 HP. It is continuous duty though. I don't think my mini mill/lathe motors will shake 35 pounds of stuff.  :doh:


« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 12:29:36 PM by Brass_Machine »
Lee

Offline shred

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 06:34:44 PM »
I've had several little vibratory 'tumblers' about 1-2 gallon size (they don't tumble, but they call it that anyway).  In all of them the vibration-source-of-choice was mounting the motor to the bottom of the bowl and clamping an offset weight (and usually a fan blade to cool the motor) to the shaft.  Vary the weight/distance to change the vibration strength.  The bowl+motor is supported on springs.  I'm not sure that design carries over to the big vibratory bowl units, but I might be able to check a commercial one in a few days.  Doesn't require a lot of power though.


« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:36:58 PM by shred »

Offline Darren

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3795
  • N/Wales
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 06:41:42 PM »
I have heard of a short length of plastic pipe with some end caps being used on the lathe rotated slowly, obviously for small parts only.

Vibrators work well, have used them in the past and have been thinking about one for a while. Well a "rumbler" anyways.

Be interesting what you come up with... :thumbup:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

  • Guest
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 08:13:50 PM »
The large ones I have worked with actually worked on an electromagnetic principle. Just a coil bolted to the base frame with a metal plate bolted to the bottom of the tumbler drum which was mounted on springs. The speed of the 'vibrator' was just a small knob on a variable pot turning the magnet on and off at different rates thru a bit of electronics. No moving parts to wear out and basically they were just all waterproofed and could operate in all sorts of environments.
They had a capacity of about 5 gallons and used a mixture of water and detergent plus a variety of different shaped stones.

The other type was rotary and consisted again of a plastic 5 gallon sized drum and a stand that it sat slightly tilted on. Four main wheels supported the drum, while a very small rubber powered wheel rotated the drum, which was filled with the same sort of medium as the other.

The actual tumbling time took from an hour to many days, depending what finish was required.

It is many years since I used them, but if sketches would help, just ask.

John

Offline Alan Haisley

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: us
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 08:28:13 PM »
Thinking of a tumbler got me to thinking of my clothes dryer. It uses an open frame AC motor with a small pulley driving a flat belt that wraps the drum. Without opening it up, which I am only allowed to do if it breaks, it's impossible to determine the mechanical advantage but it's a lot.

Given a plastic drum, open on the top, with a bearing on the bottom center and using a bracket with rollers to stabilize the front edge, I can see how a tumbler could be built. A friction wheel driving the rim could be an alternative. For variable speed perhaps a friction cone driving an idler driving the rim could be done. In that case, the motor would either need a bracket that could be moved back and forth or some kind of sliding spline driving the cone with the cone movable to get variable speed.

Not every solution needs an electronic controller.

Alan

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 08:55:20 PM »
Thanks, Guys. I actually considered how a washer works. Something could certainly be done with belts like that, especially the barrel type finishers or tumblers. They basically just roll around.

I found this link the other day.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3012198/Deburring-Metal-Finishing-Information-Booklet

Pretty informative stuff there. I have looked around and even new machines anywhere near this size are thousands of dollars.
My parts are all fairly small with the biggest being maybe 11" x 5" 11 gage CRS sheet. Smallest is maybe 1.5" x 1".

I was thinking about this setup. My motor would actually be mounted to the frame, as would the bottom of these springs. I would turn a rounded end on some coupling nuts so that they could swivel as needed. I would put a standard pulley on the motor and mount the offset plate to it. I could even make the offset adjustable. Loosen the bolts and twist the plate. It would be centered at one end of the adjustment and give may 3/4" at the other end.
Not too difficult to make with a cnc mill.  :thumbup:

At 1/2" offset, this would give the barrel an inch of moving range. Turning @ 1725 RPM, that is quite a bit of shake.

I will get some more drawings up soon. This will become more clear by then. It is also very simple with only a few moving parts.

Lee

Offline Alan Haisley

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: us
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 11:01:23 PM »
Lee,

I'd worry about the motor bearings if you use a shaking rather than tumblering model. Maybe there is some way to decouple the side forces from the motor ... an intermediate thingie that actually provides the shake perhaps?

Alan

Offline shred

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 11:26:00 PM »
John's post reminded me that all the big tumblers I've seen have had a slurry of liquid and media in them (ceramics of various sizes mostly), so you may want to plan for that sort of mass to slosh around and seal up.

Another similar device I've seen for power-deburring and finishing smallish parts is a rotating mesh basket set at an angle with a bead-blaster shooting into it.  Sort of like a standard clothes dryer but with a blast nozzle in the door.. No media is used in that except the blast media, but it does a pretty good job cleaning stuff up.




Offline SPiN Racing

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 02:13:35 AM »
I bought one of the Harbor Freight ones.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93252

Its mediocre at best. Honestly. I found that putting a wire brush to something gently for 30 seconds achieves the same results.

I had some stainless steel items that I was polishing and or de-burring. And the thing was... with 8 items about 3-5 inches long, with some sharp edges from turning on the lathe, they took around 12-14 hours to become smooth enough.

Honestly I could have spent about 30 seconds on the lathe with some emry cloth to achieve the same results.

If the items were more convoluted, and difficult to clean and or sand.. then it would be worth it in my mind.


Problems I had... the vibration caused it to have all sorts of parts loosen up.
It also fell over at one point during the several weeks I used it.

Now it basically collects dust as an option I dont use often. I know of options where I would use it.. but I have not needed it recently. I think If I had a slew of bolts and or nuts and things that needed corrosion removed, and or rust, I would break it out.


An alternative I use on Engine rebuilds... I have a 55 Gallon Drum that I cut 1/3 off the top. I put 5 gallons of Simple Green into it, and the rest water. Then I put it on a turkey fryer/propane cooker, and bring it to a boil, then put the engine parts into it via a coat hanger.
After boiling them for 3 or 4 hours, turn the gas off and let it cool to very warm. Remove and voila clean parts.
The liquid is "enviromentally safe" other than the stuff boiled off.
SPiN Racing

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2009, 06:17:01 AM »
Thanks Guys. Good stuff.
I did get to quasi finish the initial design. These images may help to clear up what I am shooting for.















This will have provisions for a top to be locked down on it. It will also have wheels on one side with handles to move around a bit easier. Think hand truck.

You can see the arbor that I intend to use. I will initially set the top plate that spins in the skate bearings at about 3/8" offset. The way this motor and arbor mounting channel mounts to the frame, it will be easy to add extra offset. That part will be adjustable by swinging one end of the channel.

The best part about this machine and it's design is that I have just about all the parts on hand already. Left overs from other projects. It does a heart good to get rid of some stock that has been taking up space.  :thumbup:

I only drew one row of bearings, but will use them doubled up in case of vertical movement of the barrel when jumping around. Also the pulley ratio is off as drawn. There will be a larger pulley on the arbor. Likely 3 to 1 to pull the RPMs down below 600. This too may need tweaking. I only drew 1/2" shafting and pillow blocks because that is what I have on hand. I may need to bump those up to at least 3/4". 1/2" has a tendency to flex a bit.

Any thoughts now guys?
Thanks.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 11:14:04 AM by Brass_Machine »
Lee

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2009, 10:58:30 AM »
I already made a different drive design. Instead of the way I had originally planned, I will just use a flange bearing under the barrel. Not cam or skate bearings. Instead, I will do like most other machines and use offset weights.
I have some 1 3/8" square steel stock that should provide a good offset. The plan is to make them 3" long to start with.

I am also switching the shafting to 3/4" now. This will mean buying more bearings, but better safe than have to swap out later.
The pulleys can also be swapped out later for different effects. The weights can be rotated on the shaft closer to each other for another effect. The support springs will be able to be tightened or loosened to also vary the shake.

I don't see much of an issue finding the right shake with this type setup.

I will also use one of those water heater pans made of galvanized. This is what I will actually mount to the machine. It will then hold the tub in place with possibly a strap clamp. This way I don't need to install any drains in the barrel and when it wears out, put a new one on.
I can get the barrels at no cost.

I intend to use 4 or 6" PVC pipe in the center of the drum with a threaded rod to attach the lid or cover.

Anyway, here are the new images.







« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 11:14:53 AM by Brass_Machine »
Lee

Offline Darren

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3795
  • N/Wales
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 11:10:42 AM »
That's looking good Lee, wish I could draw like that !!

 :clap:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5358
  • Country: us
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 11:15:57 AM »
Looking good Lee!

BTW... I edited your posts show the pics show up  :borg: Hope you don't mind.

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 05:47:12 PM »
Nice Graphics Lee
 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 08:40:25 AM »
Thanks, Guys.
No problem on the pics. They were just a bit large, so I posted links.
They aren't extemely large in byte size though, so it works for me.  :D

I got my first batch of media in yesterday. It's the 1/2" ceramic type. Bought 25 pounds. It's not much. It's only about 5" by 10" by 10".
Not nearly enough.
I'll need at least 100 pounds. I need to find a better source than Mcmaster Carr.  :(

Several years ago I bought a large lot of 8" grinding wheels. Some were the wrong size for my machine. Others were too fine to do any good. Some where too course. I used the ones I could out of these, but still have about 20 to 30 of them just taking up space. I am going to crush them up and use them as media as well. Should really help to make the fill.
The barrel is 23.5" OD. I will have a 4 to 6" PVC pipe in the middle. That is still quite a bit to have to fill up. I expect this media will last a good while too. My test with 10 minutes in lava rock in a concrete mixer showed good results, so the burrs I am removing aren't that tough.
More to come. Stay tuned.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 08:59:59 AM by Leeway »
Lee

Offline Noitoen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: pt
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 01:44:51 PM »
Hi,

Being lurking a little around the here  :wave:and remembered this site. http://desiredcreations.com/howTo_TLTumbleSand.htm For small stuff I think it will do.

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 07:14:21 PM »
Thanks for that link. Good to know about just plain Jane rocks.
I will need a much less abrasive when I make a smaller one for my aluminum parts. All those are fairly small.
I ordered 50 more pounds of media today.

I also busted up all those old grind wheels I had and tried that stuff in my concrete mixer. I ran it for 1/2 hours and almost all the burrs were gone. I am confident that these store bought media will do the job I want.

Lee

Offline zeusrekning

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 74
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2009, 09:13:33 PM »
looks good. I will put my 2 cents in. At my last job we started doing a good bit of tumbling and I was amazed at how much can be involved.

Main thing is you want the media to roll. This has a lot to do with the shape of the bowl and the action  of the motor/weights. You want a smooth action. You don't want the media bouncing around. For the media ( tumbling rocks) Get real stuff. It last practically forever.

Here is a link. Im not affliated or advertising so  :wack:  http://www.masfinishing.com/Media.html

Feel free to call and get help with media or compound selection. I think the owners name is Bob.
But you have the ceramic media for deburring. The plastic works great for softer metal deburring but wears a lot quicker. Never run the tumbler dry. Im not sure I would buy the compound (liquid) for just deburring. What we have done with the small tumbler at work now is add a little bit of degreaser to a 5gal bucket of water and let it drip into the tumbler. Just enough to keep the media wet but have no standing water in the bottom. What the deburring compound does is remove the gunk from the small pores in the ceramic media. The polishing compound is the opposite. You use it for tumbling in porcelain media to make the shine come out. The polishing compound actually packs the microscopic pores in the porcelain so that there is no cutting action. I was impressed with the shine we achieved in aluminum by tubling for 1 hr in plastic then polishing for 1hr in porcelain. I dont think it was quiet as good as a good polish on the buffing wheel but def. cleaner and easier.

Good luck and keep us informed. I too think the comercial units are to pricey.

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 07:26:57 AM »
Thanks for that advice and link.

I did get rid of those grinding stones that were taking up space in my shop. I tried them out after breaking into small chunks in my concrete mixer. It worked pretty well on the deburring of things on steel, however it left pitted surfaces from all the sharp points. This was 30 minutes in the mixer with just a water slurry. Served to prove a few things.

My deburring needs can quickly be taken care of with a decent machine and the correct media. Use these grinding stones as backfill for the headwalls on my driveway culvert headwalls. ;)
I hired a guy to do this. I recently had to replace my old culvert. It was undersized and storm damage just washed it all out. I have had my fill of larger scale concrete work. Like roofing, I hire it done when I can. :)

Got all the parts together for the machine. Initially I was going to weld the frame using 2" x 3" angle iron. Now I think I will bolt it together instead. I may still tack it after the bolts are in place, but dowels may be a better option.
The bottom shelf eluded to in my drawings will be for holding weight. I have about 10 buckets of scrap steel sheet offcuts that would all a bunch of base weight to the frame. I use one under my grinder and it really helped that station out.

I also thought about using a paint shaker for a machine. I don't think the up and down movement would be very beneficial though. If someone has a small one though, it might be beneficial to try at least for a small aluminum finisher.
I hope to get to building the big machine this weekend. If this all works out okay, then I will scale the machine to do a smaller version for my aluminum parts.

Lee

Offline Leeway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • Leeway Workshop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2009, 05:57:35 AM »
I did manage to get the machine built. I initially tried the two opposing weights system on a separate pillow blocked shaft. While i did get decent vibration when the weights were on the same side, it wasn't enough. I felt this was going to be the case going in.

I have now switched to an offset shaft design. My first try with it was a nogo. I offset the shaft a full 1" center to center. I knew this was too much when I was installing it.  Never even turned the motor on. My springs just won't handle that much offset. I will make the next offset block at 3/8" offset center to center. I think that will be a good starting point.

The only other things I have done is to use rust converter so far on the frame. It will then get gloss black rattle can once it is shaking like it should. I did put the wheels and handles on one side to make moving it into my shed easier. Doubtful they will get much use once set in place, but were cheap enough.

I intend to make a much smaller version once this one works. It will likely use a direct drive on another motor I have. It will be for my aluminum parts. Maybe 25 pounds of media. It will be just as tall as this one on the frame. These will both need to be bolted down. No question about that. With just the weights, the larger one was walking which also reduces it's shake potential.

The big machines RPM is around 800 or so. It will still be slow going, but will show my results when I get to it.












Lee

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2009, 06:18:04 AM »
Hi Lee that look a good size machine.

We use quite large machine at our factory about 5' dia the drum comes in for a fair bit of stick  :wack: :wack: theyr'e coated with a thick protective coat of rubbery material to protect the drum from the abrasive action, they are also solidly fastened to the floor.

The used chips are sold on for hardcore.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline shipto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Country: gb
  • Redditch, UK
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2011, 03:21:12 PM »
I tried one of these for some small parts I have to make at work but had real difficulty getting the parts and media to rotate around the drum. It just made 2 pile each side of the drum (may have worked better with more media) in the end I mounted the drum I had on a 40:1 gear box and made it similar to a cement mixer.
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
https://myshedblog.wordpress.com/

Offline ncollar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2011, 09:12:45 PM »
You need to protect your bearings by not having a solid shaft. If the shaft with the weight was shorter and the shaft on bearings was connected with a rigid hose like a small heater hose or a rubber fuel line.  This way you would isolate the vibration from the bearings. Vibration will shorten the life of a bearing, even a good one.
Nelson Collar :coffee:

Offline Swarfing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: gb
Re: Vibratory finisher project
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 05:21:21 AM »
I have not read all the links so forgive me if it has already been said. Have you thought about using an old tyre turned inside out? i have seen this used and it works very well.
Once in hole stop digging.