Author Topic: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)  (Read 2705 times)

Online awemawson

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Well I've been and gone and done it again  :bugeye:

This Beaver TC 20 CNC lathe was too much to resist - after all it's paint scheme matches my Beaver PartsMaster CNC Mill  :lol:

Ex Portsmouth University, the sellers father bought it, had it briefly running, but then unfortunately died - that was five years ago and the machine has sat unused and un-powered for that period. The cosmetics of the outside are excellent, but inside the swarf guards have light rust - it's obviously been turning machinable wax, as there is still some swarf in it, and that would be without coolant, so the guards haven't been kept oily by coolant hence the rust.

The control is a Siemens Sinumerik 820T - having been left powered off the back up battery (last changed 2008!) is obviously dead as a door nail and all the parameters and plc data have been lost.

I went to inspect on Thursday, and although I got 3 phase power on to the machine I could get nothing what so ever out of the controller - no screen display, no leds nowt  :scratch: Might be dead simple, might be a nightmare

A bit smaller than the Traub this is an estimated 3 tons and has a 2.75 x 1.98 metre footprint - just need to get it shifted the 80 miles home and I can start playing  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 02:17:31 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2018, 07:22:47 AM »
The fellow who is selling has lost all the documentation and also the tool setting probe which is very sad, the Siemens stuff is all available on the web for download but Beaver went out of business in the early 1990's so the machine specific stuff is thin on the ground.

Fortunately there is a floppy disk in a door pocket that claims to have the machine and plc parameters on it - I do hope so - it may just be blank  :bugeye:

« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 09:38:45 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Joules

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 07:26:44 AM »
You have a problem Andrew, what with this knowledge of skipping porn stars and an addiction to Beaver, you really should seek help.

       :lol:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline seadog

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 07:52:36 AM »
I await the next awemawson epic. Showing on a forum near you, soon!  :clap:

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 12:55:40 AM »
Well a tiny bit of progress, I've located a Renishaw tool setting probe. You'll recall the seller of the lathe lost his  :bang:

The one I've found is off a Beaver CNC lathe and was left behind when the lathe was sold. Vendor can't remember the model number, "but the Chuck was 300 mm". Now the TC 20 has a 250 mm Chuck and as far as I can find out Beaver never made a CNC lathe with a 300 mm Chuck

Chuck size is important as the probe reaches round and past it to touch the selected tool in the turret. The problem is that these probes are assembled from a huge variety of element lengths to suit a particular machine - hopefully if this isn't spot on I can move the programmed measuring point to suit it - I'm hoping he'd forgotten the size of his chuck - I never mentioned Beaver, he named the lathe so hopefully . . . :med:

Darren, my Tractor Shed builder has volunteered to shift the machine the 80 miles to my place, but we are waiting on the seller to fix the steering ram on his forklift so he can load it
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 01:35:20 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 08:54:35 AM »
Well today is officially a GOOD DAY  :thumbup:

The touch probe seller has been in touch (no pun intended!) and confirmed that it was off a TC-20 lathe, and not only that he still has manuals for the Sinumerik controller - so how good is that  :clap:

. . . . negotiations are in progress . . . .  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2018, 10:20:26 AM »
Do you believe in co-incidences ?

Turns out that the probe I've found is coming from Gosport - now the lathe was originally at Portsmouth University 13 miles away by road, but by Gosport ferry across  Portsmouth Harbour probably less than a mile  :bugeye:

Now from my research Beaver were making about 45 TC-20 per year from 1987 to 1992 - or approximately 225 as a total world population - surely there has to be a very high chance that this is the original probe.

. . . how cool would that be . . . suitable question fired off to probe seller regarding his affinity to the Engineering Dept at Portsmouth University  :ddb: :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2018, 01:16:32 PM »
So Andrew....

Nice find! But, are you gearing up to run a production line?

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 01:29:01 PM »
Eric,

As you know well, it's the journey that I enjoy rather than the end result   :clap:

I just love taking some neglected unloved bit of machinery and putting it right, if only some young slip of a gal  would do the same with me  and put  a smile on my face :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 02:06:36 PM »
Awesome!
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 10:29:24 AM »
I knew it was too much of a co-incidence. The chap flogging the Renishaw Probe used to operate this machine at Portsmouth University :clap: :clap:

Not only that - he still has manuals and training materials - negotiations ongoing . . . .
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 12:23:02 PM »
Man that's what I call fall over in Doris' sty and coming up smelling of roses :D

Offline hermetic

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 01:03:07 PM »
Have we done the Balding Beaver joke yet Andrew?

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 03:46:31 PM »
Just come off the phone from a long chat with the Renishaw Probe seller - he still works at the Uni . . . .

. . . . the manuals are mine and being posted tomorrow. He was last machining PTFE on it, and that was 2010 - the swarf from it is still in the machine  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 10:57:16 AM »
Still not managed to get the machine transported - seller hasn't mended his forklift yet, and no one can tell me what the machine weighs  :bang:

BUT - the probe has arrived along with the bundle of software manuals, as has a second hand 'Peli Case' that I bought to house it. The tip of the probe would originally have had a protective cover, which has gone missing so I 3D printed one this morning, and at the moment the Cetus 3D printer is making me a cap to protect the electrical connector, but that has another three hours to run.

. . . just need the 'pick and pluck' foam block that I have on order for the Peli case and it will be safe.


 . . . oh and the lathe would be quite handy too  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 01:14:35 PM »
And the good news keeps rolling in  :ddb:

The nice chap who sold me the probe has been looking though his files and has emailed me with what appears to be a complete set of back up parameters from this machine for the  820T controller, the PLC, and all the various off set corrections and pitch corrections. He has even included one or two examples of programs.

Funnily enough today I was looking through his programming course notes hand out that he had sent with the probe, and noticed that in the very first example they give they had printed an error - simple positioning to turn a stepped profile - it had the set up bits like metric measurement, absolute positioning etc then went straight into a list of co-ordinates without issuing a G00 or G01 move command, so it could never have worked. I hope they found that on the course   :clap:

At last I've found a weight for the machine - 6.25 tons  :bugeye: and at vast expense have commissioned a professional machine moving company to collect and deliver using their enormous hi-ab equipped lorry - only problem now is that the seller is proving elusive and not answering phones or texts.

Meanwhile I've been offered another Beaver TC-20, slightly younger but in far worse condition cosmetically for less than it's costing to MOVE mine ! Shame to miss it, as obviously it would be an excellent spares 'Christmas Tree', but again I'd have to move it. Tempting as I have room for it and it has a full set of documentation. I'll try and liberate the documentation at least, or just maybe buy it and strip it on site though the removable chunks are pretty sizable on their own .

. . . any volunteers for a day out in Birmingham helping me pulling a machine apart in a controlled fashion !

It's not quite identical being fitted with a different tool turret and machine control panel but the Sinumerik controller is fundamentally the same. Picture to show it's not as nice as mine  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline chipenter

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2018, 01:53:43 PM »
Was that on ebay last week ? if so they wanted 100 loading fee , I am not surprised it nod not sell .
Jeff

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2018, 02:58:30 PM »
Yes Jeff, and it's been re-listed. He is paying huge warehouse fees and is getting desperate poor chap.
Andrew Mawson
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Offline AdeV

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 05:00:57 PM »
A word to the wise....

...be extremely cautious with that seller.

I bought my first Interact 1 Mk2 machine from him. It was described as being in "good working order", having a TNC151 controller, and - since the photos on eBay showed it outdoors - I specifically asked if it was stored indoors, to which I received an affirmative.

When my man went to pick it up, it was still outside, and soaking wet (it's Birmingham, it rains almost as much there as in Manchester).

The tools, when I got them, were all full of water.

The controller was a TNC150, not the promised TNC151 (ok, I can maybe understand that mistake).

Once I'd given the machine a week in a warm place to dry out, it "mostly" worked. The motor cooling fan was seized (from the rain, probably) and the coolant pump didn't work.

Fortunately, I managed to acquire the machine I still use to this day, for less money, later on; and shifted the less good machine on for what I paid for it (to a chap who was happy to take it at the price even with the faults described).

It's highly unlikely it's costing Bilal anything in warehousing; chances are it's still at it's original owner's place, and he's screaming to get it out of the bl**dy way...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 12:58:44 PM »
I speak as I find, and to be fair the chap has been very helpful to me - he made a special visit to the warehouse to photograph the documentation for me, and try and find a weight for the machine. If it doesn't sell on eBay this time round I've no problem getting back in touch with him, but obviously I will keep your caution in mind Ade.

There's good and bad in all of us I suspect  :med:

Andrew Mawson
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Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 04:46:43 AM »
Well after several false starts and delays I got the call 08:30 this morning to say it's loaded to the wagon and on it's way  :clap:

Now this has sent me into a flurry, as previously it was going to be tomorrow and I've committed to transporting an elderly friend to and from the dentist for a check up bang on when it's expected  :bang: Oh well I expect it'll sort itself out  :scratch:

Have some pictures of my lathe swinging from a large hook !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 10:19:18 AM »
So rather surprisingly we were able to get Geoff through the dentist slightly ahead of time, and I got a text from a friend just as he was finishing, to say that a big lorry was pulling into the farm and did I need a hand !

So we got back to the farm in time to see the lathe swinging again on the hook - a very professional chap on the (remote) control knew just what to do - extending the Hi-Ab as far as the load limiter would allow got it poked so that the Tailstock end was just able to be put on skates, then he shifted the lifting point to the Headstock end and was able to gently ease it into place.

Then a bit of work with some rather nice toe jacks got it off the skates and back on it's levelling feet. All a bit tight but 'workable' (I hope) - it's slightly smaller than the Traub so how the heck I got that in I don't know  :scratch:

It's been a  bit of an emotional roller coaster getting so far and I feel exhausted, but when I've fed the pigs I'll go back to the workshop and try and get a feel for what I've taken on this time  :bugeye:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 10:24:12 AM »
The firm I used had all the right equipment and the driver certainly knew his Hi-Ab. Superb lorry, nice Toe Jacks,, good skates and a massive hook on the hi-ab that probably weighs more than that Denford Mirac that I mended !

Of course it would never have moved if Geoff hadn't given a push at the crucial time  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline j1312v

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 11:25:07 AM »
 :jaw: Nice Project Matt!!!

I that the ex-uni lathe or the one in the Midlands?


Online awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 01:39:25 PM »
Ex Portsmouth University

. . . who's Matt  :scratch:


State of play at the moment is that I have it wired to 415 three phase. With an earth connected it's tripping a 100mA RCD - (when I hooked it up on site it had no earth) - symptoms remain as previously, no life or LEDs on the controller.

I'll try and pull the controller out this evening and see what's happening - the way it's mounted is a bit silly as there is no easy way to it's rear other than unscrewing it, and the back up battery is mounted on the rear of the controller. This battery has to be changed with the power on, so not sure how that is supposed to happen - may find out later!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex