Author Topic: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)  (Read 24401 times)

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #100 on: June 20, 2018, 06:41:07 AM »
Well I've gone with the Rust-Oleum Combi-Color (spelt the American way so maybe it IS the same formulation) in a tasteful  'Steel Grey Satin' not that the colour matters a jot as it's hidden under the machine!

Thanks for the suggestion Steve  :thumbup:

The citric acid seems to be doing a good job, after a day or two I'll drain it down and see if any of the old paint is still sticking wants to come off with a scraper.

Meanwhile knowing that most chemical reactions work faster when warm I've set up a radiant propane heater playing on the tank. Be far better were it pointing upwards from underneath, but you use what you have!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #101 on: June 20, 2018, 07:20:15 AM »
Come on Andrew - we are Mad Modders - MODIFY it  :lol:

A quick removal of the heating head (hold with pliers - still VERY hot) , balance on a 'JCB to Cambridge Ring Roller Adaptor' , light it up again and we'll soon have those fish boiled  :clap:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #102 on: June 20, 2018, 07:27:32 AM »
 Hi Andrew, Rust Oleum here in quart brush style cans is only found in gloss. So I'm guessing your satin stuff is different. Rust Oleum as I know it is a oil based enamel. Word was, in the old days that it contained fish oil. Don't know if that was true. But it was advertised as being suitable for covering rusted steel, iron etc. Always did seem to do well on garden furniture and the like. It comes in spray cans as well, but I have found that the paint coat does not last nearly as well if sprayed. My guess is that it is a different formula.

The brand has now diversified into many disimilar paints, including latexes, and all in one finishes, etc. So it becomes confusing. But the original quart cans of the brush oil enamel is still widely available here, and that's what i use for machinery, or anything else metal in tough service.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2018, 07:37:34 AM »
There are other oil based enamels here, minor brands, which claim to be good for rusty metal. Probably similar. I don't have much experience with them. Mainly because I'm familiar with R/O, and long term results with it. But likely most any good oil based enamel tor metal will do.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »
Well oh boy what a day !

Last night the 'tank heater' actually got the citric acid up to 43 degrees Centigrade before I turned it off. This morning the objective was to drain the tank, sand blast it and paint it in Rust-Oleum assuming the paint got delivered.

It started off well - I set the tank draining first thing before I fed the livestock, and it was just dribbling when I'd finished breakfast. So I removed the Level Gauge and Tap, and set it up for Grit blasting. The  citric acid had done its work and the horrid flaky rust was all gone with an almost shiny surface left. There was however a lot of what ever that it had been painted with - a very resilient black hard paint.

Grit blasting was going pretty well, except that the black 'paint' (it must be something tougher than paint) wasn't shifting very easily with the grit blaster. I tried hot strong caustic soda solution, and some paint stripper of the sort that stings your hand through rubber gloves, neither had much effect. I reckoned that the Rust-Oleum would be happy on top of it as it was obviously stuck well  :clap:

At this point I decided to check the diesel level in the compressor, and just as well I did. There was a fire raging at the far end of it's cabinet. Not a little baby thing, but a raging inferno blown by the radiator fan of the compressor.  :bugeye: :bugeye:

I shut the engine off and high tailed it into the workshop to grab the CO2 extinguisher that I'd placed next to the laser engraver when I got it.

A couple of blasts put most of it out, just a bit still burning on the hot silencer - another squirt and it was out - but WHAT had been burning? Some fluid - I tentatively started the engine again, and something was being blasted through the air and oil coolers by the fan onto the hot exhaust - but what  :scratch: All too bally hot to investigate so I went and had lunch while it cooled a bit.

Returning half an hour later, again I started her up, but this time holding a powerful torch which revealed diesel leaking from a hose and being fanned all over the place. All it was in the end was a loose hose clip which when tightened was fine - but it could have been a disaster. Togged up in the blasting gear I would neither have heard nor smelled the fire, so I was very lucky something told me to check the level in the tank  :med:

So back to the task in hand - I blasted the tank all over, a very tedious long winded job, then blew out all the sand with the compressor and set it up for painting.

A slight delay as by then it was feed time for the pigs (obligatory pictures to satisfy Will-D !) Then I painted the tank with a long armed 'radiator roller' inside and outside. I'll leave it over night and give it a second coat in the morning assuming this coat is dry.

Then pack up the sand blaster followed by a badly need shower and an even more badly needed glass of Old Speckled Hen  :lol:


Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #105 on: June 21, 2018, 02:15:37 PM »
Well the day seems to be ending on a high  :clap:

While I was blasting, fire fighting and painting DPD crept in and delivered a parcel from Germany containing the Battery Backed RAM Daughter Card, and the Interface Card - best part of a week AHEAD of schedule  :thumbup:

So after a very careful inspection and copying session for option jumpers in they went :

 :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: AND THE CONTROLLER SPRANG INTO LIFE  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

. . . phew, it looks like the gamble may have paid off and this lathe might once more return to active service !

Lots more to do to restore the various bits of data so it knows which lathe it's running in, and you can be sure that there will be a few 'Gotchas' along the way  but most definitely PROGRESS with a capital P
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:42:49 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #106 on: June 21, 2018, 02:35:31 PM »
Excellent!

This would be the point at which I would consider myself properly 'on the road'.

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #107 on: June 21, 2018, 03:32:53 PM »
Yes Pete I'm sitting gathering my thoughts in a mixture of exhaustion from today's activities, quiet satisfaction in getting some sense from the controller, and relief that the lathe hopefully now won't be a very large, expensive, and slightly embarrassing door stop  :clap:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline pycoed

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2018, 03:59:30 PM »
Isn't it amazing what Old Speckled Hen can achieve? :drool:

Offline Will_D

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #109 on: June 22, 2018, 04:59:28 AM »
A great day Andrew. Thanks for the pig(x)s!
Engineer and Chemist to the NHC.ie
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #110 on: June 22, 2018, 06:18:32 AM »
You are welcome Will - you have a Saddleback and two Berkshire there  :thumbup:

This morning I gave the outside of the coolant tank a second coat (no pictures - one coat looks much like another!) When this has hardened a bit, probably tomorrow, I'll invert it and give the inside another coat.

Then the Postman (Steve) brought me two 40 BAR flange mounted hydraulic gauges to replace the rather unreadable ones on the machine. I'll need to be able to read them as I commission things.

#1 Gauge monitors pressures associated with the automatic chuck, and #2 does the same for the tail stock.

All these gauges are glycerine filled for safety, and the originals both had cracked plastic lenses that were bulging ominously and the glycerine had leaked out, so best replaced.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #111 on: June 22, 2018, 01:22:44 PM »
What a result on the electronics side Andrew! 40 bar, wow thats quite a lot, is that air or hydraulic, I assume hydraulic, does the machine have a pump on it?
Phil.

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #112 on: June 22, 2018, 05:51:21 PM »
Yes hydraulics for opening and closing the chuck and advancing the tail stock from a built in biggish pump.

I thought that one of the 'Gotcha's ' had caught me this afternoon. I was experimenting putting binary data into the part of the control memory that sets up the serial port. I could put '1's ' in no problem, but not '0's '  :bang:

Turned out that in fact three numbers weren't working on the keyboard so probably a 'select line' on the decoder, so either something on the interface card that I installed yesterday, or just possibly a bad connection.

Leading from the key matrix and the LEDs on the front panel are those very thin flexible PCB 'cables' pushed into the gripper type connectors. I took them all out, cleaned and sprayed them with contact cleaner, and PHEW - numbers now working  :thumbup:

It seems that this controller is a half way house between two generations of the control, so I'm having to interpret instructions rather than just obey them. I think possibly the University had a peek at what was coming and wanted it early.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #113 on: June 23, 2018, 04:12:54 AM »
Today's task - put the last coat of paint on the inside and top surface of the coolant tank. So having let out and fed the cat, the geese, the chicken and the pigs, and returned the dogs to the house it was painting time.

I liken the painting of this tank to an Ocean Liner - pretty from a distance, none too brilliant close up but functional. And after all I'm applying the paint in the same way they paint liners - with a long handled roller.

So while I was in scruffy clothes I thought that I might as well do a job I've been putting off for a few days - rolling on the ground installing the three remaining levelling feet and pads. When the machine was delivered it was placed on the four pads roughly at the corners and levelled, but these three are right in the middle surrounding the tunnel into which the coolant tank goes, so they needed fitting before the tank can go back.

Trivial job - unscrew the ball ended bolt - slip the pad with a domed recess under the  ball end - tighten the bolt so it just bears weight - what could be easier  :med:

Answer: not having to do it at arms length down a tunnel 6" tall by 18" wide  using spanners that you can barely lift with your arms outstretched :bang:

First one wasn't too bad, but the ones down the far end of the tunnel were . . .challenging . . . :clap:

All done now though, so I can climb back into clean clothes, have breakfast and take the dogs for a walk (wife in Houston for the week staying with youngest son)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 05:19:04 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #114 on: June 23, 2018, 04:59:52 AM »
That was all very well, but I was just packing up and I realised I'd totally forgotten to grit blast and paint the 'Funnel Strips' that fix on to the tank and presumably try to avoid to much fluid being lost   :bang:

Never mind - get on with it.  They fit into my cabinet blaster but using the Hydrovane compressor would take too long. Some time ago I plumbed a 'Claw Fitting' onto the outside wall of my welding shop connecting the internal compressed air system via a ball valve. So connect up the Road Compressor (no fire this time !) blast them, and use your last roller to paint them (memo to self, buy more roller pads)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline AdeV

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #115 on: June 23, 2018, 06:25:57 AM »
I liken the painting of this tank to an Ocean Liner - pretty from a distance, none too brilliant close up but functional.

I believe the Americans call this a "20ft paint job". It looks great.... from 20ft away  :lol:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #116 on: June 23, 2018, 06:56:19 AM »
Ade, the ironic thing is it will never be seen! It's tucked away under the machine out of sight down that tunnel - the only bit that will show is the broad end, which will have another thick plate sitting on it holding the pump and intake filter.

Actually the finish isn't that bad considering it's grit blasted rust, but not car body standard !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #117 on: June 23, 2018, 10:08:53 AM »
Exciting read, Andrew, about the compressor fire and the console coming alive!  :coffee: :coffee:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #118 on: June 24, 2018, 01:21:03 PM »
Frustrating day today going round and round in circles :(

I've been trying to re-load the back ups of the parameters that I obtained back into the controller. The available documentation is vague to say the least. Having eliminated cable issues (I'm re-using the RS232 cable that drove the Traub) by belling it out against the Siemens documents I then had to juggle the usual 'how many data bits, odd, even or no parity, what baud rate, which signals are in control RTS/CTS DSR/DTR or is it using XON/XOFF - is is ascii or is it EIA coding.

I started trying to dump from the controller and comparing the format with the back ups that I had. It was at this point I found that the port I was using on my multi RS232 box was blown. OK no problem I had a spare port. One of the problems was that a required '=' character was coming out as a 'NULL' - eventually traced to a parameter defining what code the '=' character is. Guess what it was set to '00000000' or NULL !
Then after much Googling and lots of  :scratch: and  :coffee: and a bit more  :scratch: I came across a posting from years ago from my late lamented friend Mark McGrath helping someone else with the same issues. So I blatantly copied his 'setting bits data' into the controller and was able to load some of the less vital stuff, like tool offsets and something called 'R-parameters' that are essentially variables used in canned cycles, but wasn't able to load the vital stuff like the PLC program and the main parameters for the control.

There is obviously something obvious here that I'm missing, and after so many hours at it I decided it was time to walk away from it and clear my head

. . . anyway there's supper to cook !

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #119 on: June 24, 2018, 02:29:12 PM »
Andrew what would be the option for a person who bought such a beast and absolutely had no chance of getting the controller working again? Would it mean a full-on retro-fit or would the machine be basically spare parts?

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #120 on: June 24, 2018, 02:50:58 PM »
There are firms out there that would repair and reload the controller for a price.

Hood on the MIG welding forum has a friend (called Forbes but not Peter) with a TC-15 Beaver lathe (slightly smaller than mine) that they have retrofitted with MACH3. By one of those amazing co-incidences it was sold to his friend (without the 820T controller) by the aforementioned Mark McGrath before the poor chap popped his clogs.

. . . .small world isn't it

(Mark was a friend of John Stevenson, and Tim Leach, and Peter Forbes . . the list goes on . . . all lost to the big C )

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #121 on: June 24, 2018, 04:45:44 PM »
While I was waiting for the Chicken to put themselves to bed I bolted the 'Funnel Strips' back on the coolant tank. This involved replacing four of the M6 'hank bushes' that I'd had to remove to get the rusty bolts off. Fortunately the ones I carry in stock had the same diameter body, so it was just a case of tapping them in with a mallet and setting them with the special mandrel tool.

Prior to this some more extensive Googling turned up a reloading guide written by Siemens - seems much the same as I've previousy followed, but I'll work through it word by word tomorrow when I'm back from picking up the pig food.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #122 on: June 24, 2018, 11:09:25 PM »
I feel your pain, Andrew. This winter I worked on resurrecting an MTI dicing saw circa 1990's, all Fanuc boxes, with a bad XYZ servo amp, bad HSSB fiber optics comm card, and NT4 Windows uber-computer with about a 3 gig hard drive and "difficult" controlling software, and little useful documentation. Mfr. no longer in business.

I feel your pain especially re. the non-standard mfr.. innovations, like slightly altered ASCII, and the joys of RS232 trial and error com parameters (and cable terminations). Always fun if those params also can be user DIP switched to alternatives, or even re-written to static battery backed RAM, no longer battery backed.

But I know you'll crack it in the end. These things only have a million or more combinations. And there will be a breakthrough somehow, or through someone. 99% of them are due to somebody not explaining something "special" onboard in the right terminology, or at all. You'll get it.  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #123 on: June 25, 2018, 09:20:48 AM »
Things have progressed in leaps and bounds  :thumbup:

Having got the pig feed I was free for a bit to try that new document. It >almost< works - still a bit fuzzy where they talk of changing from German to English, as if it is already in English some of the steps described are still needed. However the main controller software is now loaded. One file, which appears to be a main memory dump of all the programs, took nearly half an hour to load at 9600 baud.

The one file I'm missing is one of type 'PCA' which cross references error numbers to error text apparently. But if you look at the picture below at least some of the error numbers are translated  :scratch:

Incidentally all those errors are expected - it's reporting errors on the various servo systems - not surprising as they are not connected.

ps Will_D where were YOU when I had to unload quarter of a ton of pig feed with only the dogs to help  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #124 on: June 25, 2018, 02:29:41 PM »
So enough of this software malarky - let's get something physical done !

I replaced the level gauge and drain tap on the coolant tank, then went for a dance with it, shimmying it into place. I was sure it would fit as I'd tried with a wooden mock up some time ago, but the workshop is a bit crowded round the back there and it was a relief when it was in place.

Then I loosely re-fitted the plate with the coolant pump on board just to see how everything fits together. I suspect that this pump came off ten years ago !

I've done a modest bit of investigation round the 'tripping 100 mA RCD breakers' issue. I'd suspected the main spindle drive - a "KTK Mentor" 26.5 kW DC spindle drive. I've not been able yet to source a manual for this model, but the 'Mentor 2' that replaces it says it could have leakage up to 185 mA  :bugeye:

However, with mains disconnected, measuring from phase input to chassis ground I am measuring 300 ohms, and if the breaker for the Mentor is opened this 300 ohms goes away. Now this isn't conventional chopping high frequency leakage - the power is off and I'm measuring with a DC ohm meter (Avo 8) but if the drive is powered up (no earth on the chassis  :bugeye:) the drive comes up and says it's ready to play

Maybe there's a dead mouse in there somewhere - a job for tomorrow I think.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex