Author Topic: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)  (Read 153688 times)

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #300 on: August 15, 2018, 02:00:38 PM »
The same 3.5 amps - it uses the same thyristor - a BTW68-1200n . There is an upgraded one the BTW69-1200N that is OK for 50 amps , but of course it's the dinky little heat sinks that cause the issue.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline cnc-it

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #301 on: August 15, 2018, 03:29:31 PM »
My Partsmaster has the same electronic cabinet as your TC20..same spindle drive and Siemens servo rack with the same style AC servos.

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #302 on: August 16, 2018, 01:14:14 PM »
One of the modules in the Sinumerik 820T controller that could conceivably be a cause of the angular positioning fault is the 'Measuring Card' - unlikely but possible. Now I have no issue with buying spare cards as shelf spares if the price is right,but these things have been fetching several hundred pounds on eBay, and some sellers asking  over £1K  :bugeye:

Imagine my surprise when one popped up for £12.95 'buy it now' (OK plus £16 postage) on German ebay carrying a 3 month warranty. It took microseconds for my finger to press the button. Now you tend to get what you pay for, but the seller has good feedback, has already given me feedback, and confirmed the order.

Now frankly it's very unlikely to be the fault, but well worth having 'on the shelf'  :ddb:

(anyway it's not corroded like mine - see the pictures, first mine then the one I've bought)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 01:57:16 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #303 on: August 18, 2018, 05:53:08 AM »
Today the Post Man brought a mystery package from deepest Hampshire - odd - not ordered anything from there. Well my face split into a grin when opening it I found two 25 mm shank index-able lathe tools kindly sent to me by Pete W. - gosh Pete thank you so much - those will be extremely handy :thumbup:

 :mmr: :mmr:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #304 on: August 20, 2018, 06:09:32 AM »
You're welcome, Andrew,

I had a sudden qualm - are they the correct 'hand'?  But I checked your photos on the previous page of this thread and I see that the new tools you bought are both RH and LH, phew!! 
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #305 on: August 20, 2018, 09:03:52 AM »
I have holders that will accommodate both left and right handed cutters, you just have to remember to rotate the chuck the right way for the cutter you are using as you mount right handed ones inverted. The holders differ in whether the clamp press the tool up or down.

Not a huge amount of progress recently as I've been tied up with a few other things - example just been making up the latest pork order of 116 kgs of freezer ready pork for customers this afternoon. (Sorry Will-D - that was those two Berkshires!) Also both my workshop PC and Printer decided to die one after the other. PC resurrected but much hassle getting it's Win7 re-authorised having replaced the motherboard, printer sadly terminal and replacement ordered!

However I HAVE actually cut metal with the lathe - not a lot, but just enough to 'set' a couple of tools the old fashioned 'cut and measure' way. The Renishaw HPA Tool Arm is fully working, but so far the only software I've located is a sub-routine that admittedly does most of the work, but the program that calls it is missing.

The Siemens controller is rather convoluted in the way it works. At the high level you have normal G code programs which can call subroutines and / or 'cycles'. Then the Subroutines (which are held in a different bit of memory) can use 'R Parameters' (again in a different bit of memory) as can the 'Cycles' - the cycles (identified with the '@' sign can be very simple functions such as 'jump to location' up to quite complex one such as 'move towards the probe, stop when you hit it, and transfer the X&Z co-ordinates to R parameters'

And just to complicate matters further there are three 'channels' that programs can run in simultaneously - not explored that feature yet  :scratch:

In the case of the Tool Probe Tool Offset program, a set of R parameters hold the location of the probe, and it trots off and chooses the tools one by one, reads their roughly set (by ruler +/- 5 mm) position, finds which way the cutting edge faces from a manually set table, and advances the tool into the probe, hopefully then stopping and transferring the accurate co-ordinates into the Tool Table.

At the moment my puzzle is how to accurately measure the static position of the Renishaw HPA Tool Probe. The slightest contact and it's tip of course moves so darn difficult, especially as you are in free space with no reference planes to work from. I suspect that I'm going to have to make up a 'setting tool' with accurately measured offsets done on a surface plate, measure it with the HPA Tool Probe and make corrections to it's stored location until the setting tool measures correctly.

. . . but other things in life get in the way !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #306 on: August 20, 2018, 09:24:12 AM »
For those of you wanting to practise before you apply to Bletchley Park to join the Cryptology course  I'm attaching the 'Sub Program' or subroutine that does most of the probing.

A few clues to set you off - these are the meanings of some of the 'cycles' :

@100 = absolute jump
@122 = If / THEN / ELSE jump
@320 = Transfer Tool Offsets to R parameters
@720 = Flying Measurement


. . . simples really  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #307 on: August 22, 2018, 12:39:04 PM »
Today I got more parcels from Germany  :thumbup:

A complete Input Output framework with four i/o cards for the princely sum of £13.43 plus £16.12 postage, and the awaited Measuring Circuit (Basically the card that handles the Encoders, and produces the analogue outputs to the DC servo drive) again for a bargain basement price of £12.98 plus £14.50 postage.

At those prices I really wasn't expecting much, but they came immaculately packed, wrapped in anti-static, AND THEY WORK  :clap: No idea why they were so cheap - eBay is full of ones at more than ten times the price.

There are two versions of the Measuring card, a wider one like my original that will take a daughter board, and this version, which apart from the sockets for the extra card and the width of the frame are identical. (I knew that this was the narrow version.)

I plugged it in and tested it and all functions perform just like my original, so it's a good cheap shelf spare, as is the I/O rack. Needless to say the M19 axial positioning issue wasn't affected, but then I didn't expect it to be - I'm more and more certain it's a software 'setting bits' issue
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 01:18:07 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #308 on: August 22, 2018, 12:47:25 PM »
So having totally failed to unscrew some hydraulic fittings this morning I returned to the Beaver for consolation and set too with the Tool Probing Software.

Ploughing through and translating that subroutine / sub-program that I attached above I found several errors where it could not possibly have been able to run - they looked like typos, with variable names being muddled up. Anyway I concentrated on 'Type 3' tools and got the section of code measuring them working. Gosh it must be about the most stressful bit of coding, launching a massive tool turret at a delicate probe and hoping it remembers that it's supposed to stop when it kisses.

I liken testing the program after you've written it to letting your child cross the road for the first time  :bugeye:

Anyway Type 3 tools now can be measured, and I need to work on the other types when time permits. The Type 8 tool as per the illustration a/ isn't dealt with in the program, and b/ I haven't a clue how I'm going to do it - X measurement is no problem, but how the heck do you do Z  :scratch:

There is a video of it measuring, uploading to Youtube as I type - I'll include it when its cooked!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 03:15:26 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #309 on: August 22, 2018, 01:14:36 PM »
Here is the Video - Tool Probing Tentatively at very low feed speed !


Andrew Mawson
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #310 on: August 22, 2018, 02:15:01 PM »
Looking good! I’ve been watching eBay boards for a while they can be quite expensive. Our lathe has been sitting for a while it did work but now just says “Host control initializing” but everything passes there is a guy that is suppose to look at it in the near future that has worked on them before so fingers crossed!

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #311 on: August 23, 2018, 07:02:24 AM »
Thanks Tom  :thumbup:

To gain a bit more confidence with it I set up a parting tool, roughly measured the tool offsets with a ruler, then used the automatic system to measure accurately. Of course it is only as accurate as the accuracy of the tool probe location has been measured, and I've not grasped that particular nettle yet !

Interesting to see the correction that the program has made to the tool table - first picture is my initial manual measurement, and the second one the result of running the program.

The manual measuring step is necessary to get the the tool 'in the zone' before launching it at the probe.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #312 on: August 23, 2018, 11:25:03 AM »
Then I got really brave - or maybe reckless - and tried a Type 4 tool. In fact this was because I wanted to define an offset for the 'second edge' of the parting tool so that dependant on which offset you choose, the  kerf comes from the part left in the chuck (D7 offset) or the bit you've turned (D17 offset). This controller lets me define up to 99 offsets, so with twelve positions in the turret there are lots of options.

With this operation, the tool has to go past the  Tool Probe, and come back away from the chuck to measure the correct side for Z

. . . anyway it worked with remarkably little tweaking  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #313 on: August 26, 2018, 05:26:16 AM »
Having got a bit more understanding about the tool setting process, I've spent some time creating a 'Tool Crib' in FeatureCAM that replicates the tools so far installed.

By way of a test of this process I drew up a simple dome ended bar, ran it through the Post Processor, uploaded it to the 820T controller and made it. All went very well until the last 'finishing pass' when the index-able insert chipped. This is quite consistent - I know, I've chipped four tip edges so far   :bang:

Assuming I was doing something wrong a lot of head scratching ensued  :scratch: :scratch: But then the penny dropped - the program is driving the tool well past centre on the finish pass - in fact 6.6 mm past centre - then engaging with the work resulting in an upwards force on the tool until it is back the correct side of the centre line. It is probably made worse by the fact that the tool has only a very small clearance angle on the chuck facing side. However I tried it with the TNMG1604 illustrated below and also with a DCMT11T3 with identical results.

Still, I'm pleased that the lathe is at least now producing swarf for the first time in a decade  :thumbup:

It was then I looked at the FeatureCAM simulation screen, and saw the finish pass going well beyond centre - not sure how I can tweak that - I need to do some digging in the bowels of FeatureCAM and see if there are limits or whatever that I can set.

Amazingly the finish was not at all bad on the dome end considering the wrecked tip, but of course it can't be to size with a bit of carbide missing !



Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Will_D

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #314 on: August 26, 2018, 05:59:17 AM »
Nice clogs!
Engineer and Chemist to the NHC.ie
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #315 on: August 26, 2018, 06:03:48 AM »
Yes Will I must find some simple video editing software - don't have any atm !  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline cnc-it

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #316 on: August 26, 2018, 04:38:45 PM »
The spindle sound good considering it's been sat for 10 years or so  :headbang:

Under the finish tab in Feature Cam it has finish point and start point..I presume you have tried that with no effect?

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #317 on: August 26, 2018, 05:18:43 PM »
That might be on a later version perhaps as I'm not aware of those options. Can you confirm version and put up a screen grab of the feature ?

I'm running FeatureCAM 2007 V 13.1.0.28
Andrew Mawson
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Offline cnc-it

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #318 on: August 26, 2018, 05:42:12 PM »
It's an old version 2004.

Offline cnc-it

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #319 on: August 26, 2018, 05:48:52 PM »
Managed it..brain fade again  :doh:

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #320 on: August 26, 2018, 06:02:46 PM »
. . . ah that looks interesting. Also interesting that your drawing does to same over enthusiastic finishing pass.

Not sure those settings are still in 2007 version but hopefully they are . I'll experiment in the morn. Meanwhile I've been fighting power cuts.   :bang:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline cnc-it

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #321 on: August 26, 2018, 06:13:59 PM »
I'm pretty sure the setting are the same in later versions I don't think FC has changed much even on the latest version..I also noticed the x position going below center line but it leads in at an angle and only touches the work piece at the center line by the looks of it...

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #322 on: August 27, 2018, 03:14:46 AM »
John, you are entirely correct - this feature IS in the 2007 version that I have, BUT - up bright and early to test it out (well actually up bright and early to get the bins out - yes they collect on a Bank Holiday!) and the results are not at all what I expected.

Specifying a start point on the Z axis slightly away from the Z=0 point with X=0, sure enough it moves there having done the rough pass, but then continues to the X=-6.6 point that it previously was doing and carries on.Only done it in simulation, as I'm running out of good edges on my inserts !
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 04:27:50 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #323 on: August 27, 2018, 03:56:28 AM »
OK problem solved  :thumbup:

Another setting in the MISC tab is approach angle, which was set to zero. Altering it to 30 degrees gives a much more healthy state as far as the insert is concerned - no more upwards pressure tending to chip it.

So I shifted the G54 offset to -1 mm from where it was (thus skimming a further 1 mm off the part) and ran the new version with the 30 degree approach - guess what - no insert chipping  :ddb:

My thanks to John for starting me looking at this area of Featurecam  :thumbup:



Andrew Mawson
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #324 on: August 27, 2018, 05:25:25 AM »
That is very nice. Tool path looks nice with 30 degree approach angle and sounds logical.

I still don't quite grasp why does cutting edge starts wrong side of the spindle axis (rotating wrong direction in cutting direction, inserts don't stand that or rubbing). Is there a offset relative to spindle axis and why it is default? Or is the insert tip radius decade off? I don't get that.

Pekka