Author Topic: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)  (Read 54372 times)

Offline seadog

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #675 on: December 17, 2018, 02:56:32 PM »
Soft wood you'd have had no problems.

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #676 on: December 17, 2018, 03:23:08 PM »
The next issue is what coolant to use. For years I've used 'Castrol Hysol Excel', which is a soluble oil product that I've used satisfactorily in all my machines and all metals.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/1757CA3C753793E880257796002FC871/$File/HYSOL%20EXCEL.pdf

But Castrol have now 'renamed' this product 'Castrol Alusol A' which reading it's spec is aimed at aircraft aluminium alloys and doesn't include grinding in it repertoire. So are they the same or not  :med:

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6C1589B46849053B80257796002F5B93/$File/453700_XI_en.pdf

I think some searching questions aimed at Castrol are called for  :hammer:

It's rather important to me that any new stuff is mixable with what I have as machine sumps get topped up rather than wholesale replacement - this stuff is expensive. At well over £100 per 20 litre drum (of which I need two  :bugeye:) I need to get it right!

(Later edit)
(Oddly those links require you to log in, but a google search for them doesn't so I'm attaching them as pdf files )
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline seadog

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #677 on: December 17, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »
'renamed' this product 'Castrol Alusol A'

A good job it wasn't renamed Anusol A  :D

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #678 on: December 17, 2018, 03:45:36 PM »
Trust you  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #679 on: December 18, 2018, 07:36:35 AM »
This morning I ventured into the wet bits of the coolant system - things could get messy  :bugeye:

First I explored, and then removed the remnants of the input filter that sits in the tank - most of it was missing! It looks from the remaining stub, that it was a standard 3/4" BSP screw on hydraulic tank filter, reduced to 3/8" BSP - presumably to benefit from the larger area of exposed gauze :med:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #680 on: December 18, 2018, 07:56:17 AM »
Then, not being able to procrastinate any further I made up half a bucket  of Castrol Hysol Excel from my remaining stock. Then I put a new input hose on the pump, balanced the end of the input hose well clear of the coolant, and with the original output hose cut short then dunked under the milky liquid, I went to the front of the machine to turn on the pump motor.

Lots of bubbly noises as the pump pumped air into the bucket. Gingerly lowering the new input hose into the bucket an impressive flow of coolant started circulating at a great rate of knots!

OK how do I stop this without getting soaked? - Pull the input hose out of the bucket making sure that the output stays submerged, hold it vertically until all has flowed that will, then high tail it to the front of the machine and hit the stop switch !

In celebration I've ordered the 'in tank' filter that I illustrated above, and also the 125 micron inline filter element. Still no definite answer on the Castrol coolant. Speaking to their local rep it turns out the the Hysol Alusol A has itself been replaced with something with loads of letters details of which he is emailing me (as at the time he was driving and I was cooking bacon and eggs  :clap:)

Hoping this afternoon to replace the remaining hoses as I think I have the correct stuff in stock, then I need to pay attention to where the coolant is injected into the turret. There seems to be a plain ended threaded tube projecting towards the rear face of the tool disk. When a tool change is commanded, the whole tool disk moves forwards to disengage its curvic coupling, then rotates and clamps back to it's previous axial position. Now on the Traub lathe the equivalent bit was made from PTFE which presumably had a bit of 'give' in it for a good seal. This one looks to be just steel on steel. I will try and remove the nozzle and see if I can perhaps let an 'O' ring into it's end, or even make a PTFE cap to go on it's end.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #681 on: December 18, 2018, 10:13:07 AM »
It turns out that the latest version of Castrol Hysol Excel is now 'Alusol RAL BF' - where DO they get these names from ! It actually looks quite useful and I'm awaiting a quote - it seems a simple phone call isn't good enough these days to find a price.

Anyway I took out the old and very sticky hoses replacing them with identical length new ones. I suspect that that long curly one is intended to be tethered to the rear cover when it is re-installed leaving sufficient for the carriage to trundle up and down the ways without tearing it off. At first glance it seems too long, but it can always be trimmed.
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #682 on: December 18, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »
It turns out looking at the Patent Application drawing, that the Coolant Nozzle is supposed to be spring loaded, so as to seal properly as the tool disk re-locates backwards on a tool change. It wasn't, it was stuck tight !

A bit of fiddling about with grips and a bit of Plus-Gas and we have a moving spring loaded nozzle again  :thumbup:

Look carefully and you can just about see it move on this short video

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #683 on: December 19, 2018, 10:39:25 AM »
There's no point in getting the coolant up to the tool disk without sorting out how it is directed at the individual tools. The VDI40 tool holder incorporates an internal duct from the hole in the tool disk to the outside world close to the tool, but there needs to be a short (about 2") length of tube of some sort directing it at the tool 'action point'.

I'm blessed with three different methods for mounting the tubes across my range of VDI40 tool holders.

1/ The genuine Beaver ones have a sphere, through bored 6 mm, locked in place by a countersunk hex cap screw allowing the ball and tube to be swivled to point where you want it.

2/ The non beaver holders have a similar ball, located by friction, and tapped in the bore M6 x 1

3/ The Baruffaldi Powered tools have a 1/4 BSP port intended for 'Loc-Line' fittings. Now this always raises an issue because 1/4 BSP loc-line connectors are rare beasts, they are usually 1/4 NPT 18 TPI as opposed to 19 TPI for BSP

The four genuine Beaver tool holders I have equipped with bits of copper pipe to direct the flow.
The four threaded sockets raise a problem. Threading M6 x 1 on the end of soft copper pipe is a no-no as it buckles. I had this issue with the Traub and bought some 6 mm heavy walled steel tube but can't for the life of me find the remnant  :bang: I may silver solder a thread on the end
For the three powered tools I have ordered up some Loc-Line and the 1/4 NPT connectors are going to be warmed and gently eased into the 1/4" BSP hole - dead easy to sheer off the fitting doing this, but it does work 'sort of'. I'm actually tempted to make up some 1/4" BSP compression fittings and do it in copper as a better engineering solution. we'll see . . .  :med:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:50:27 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #684 on: December 20, 2018, 06:09:00 AM »
Slight change of plan: I decided not to use Loc-Line (despite having ordered it!) and to run the powered tooling coolant in brass compression fittings and copper tube. The Loc-Line doesn't go round as tight a bend as 6 mm copper will, and having a coil of 6 mm copper tube I can easily customise the nozzle length and shape in the future if different tools are loaded.

So last night I fired off an order the RS for some 1/4" x 6 mm compression fittings which duly arrived today in the same Parcelforce van as the Loc-Line  :clap: Never mind, it will undoubtedly be used in a future project!

Fitted them this morning and it makes a nice neat job of aiming the coolant at the cutter.

Now I need to devise a way of making the M6 threaded nozzles for the other tooling. I notice that there are firms selling a 'lollypop' of a ball on the end of a tube, but I'm not sure how my friction mounted ones will stand up to removal and re-fitting. Also were I to go this way I might just as well drill the spheres that I have out to 6 mm !

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #685 on: December 20, 2018, 07:19:38 AM »
For the threaded spheres I thought I'd see what I could bodge together from an M6 bolt and a bit of copper pipe. The largest hole I felt I could drill through the bolt was 3.5 mm and still maintain some strength in it, so I mounted it up in the lathe by the simple expedient of running a spare nut onto the end to keep it concentric. Then I ran  the drill through and counter bored with a 6 mm flat bottomed end mill.

Setting a scrap of  1.6 mm welding rod upright in the vice I threaded the components on ready for silver soldering and had at them with my propane torch.

Hasn't come out too badly considering the crudity and will probably work, I just need to produce an other five or six of them.

Meanwhile I placed an order for the coolant which should arrive shortly after Christmas
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #686 on: December 20, 2018, 09:45:44 AM »
Made some more up this afternoon, so now all the tools that are fitted have coolant nozzles. The two locations in the tool disk that have no tools will probably have axial drills or boring bars so will need custom lengths as and when.


(Looking at the picture I must remember to put the missing VDI40 blanking plug in!)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #687 on: December 20, 2018, 11:58:55 AM »
I found a curious thing later this afternoon . .

By program :

M08 turns coolant on
M09 turns coolant off

. . .or at least they should  :scratch:

There is also a pair of push buttons on the front panel for 'coolant on' and 'coolant off' . Now these buttons work just fine. Ploughing through the PLC logic I can see the bit where it handles the coolant contactor, and there is a mystery latch that has to be set to enable the M08 /M09 commands to operate the relay. But for the life of me I can't see what is supposed to set this latch

There is a bi-stable that represents COOLANT within the PLC logic, and writing a loop to turn coolant on, pause 5 seconds then turn it off, then pause 5 seconds and go back and start over I can see the bi-stable changing state but it's output doesn't get to the output for the relay due to the mystery latch - all very odd  :scratch:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #688 on: December 20, 2018, 02:03:09 PM »
Mystery solved  :ddb:

The Siemens 820T control console has masses of push buttons, the vast majority of which are not used. However it turns out that next to the two button that turn coolant 'ON' and 'OFF' which are clearly labelled, is a third, that with the aid of a torch and magnifying glass, you can just make out 'COOLANT AUTO'  :lol:

. . . . obvious in'it  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #689 on: December 20, 2018, 02:17:37 PM »
Thatís the last place anyone would look! :thumbup:

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #690 on: December 21, 2018, 04:37:04 AM »
A quick bit of re-labelling this morning has resulted in far more legible buttons than previously.

Of that row of 23 buttons only 7 are used. (as far as I know !!!)
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #691 on: December 21, 2018, 05:09:54 AM »
While I was clearing up the paper cuttings from labelling, the postman brought the replacement 'In-Tank' input filter.

Might as well screw it in. I wanted to set it's depth so that the tank didn't have to be absolutely topped up and yet it could draw coolant, but I hadn't realised that the vertical threaded  3/8" BSP pipe that sets it's depth actually locks with the hose fitting outside the tank pre-determining it's depth.

Sorry about the second blurry photograph, I ran out of hands !

So now I'm just waiting for the 125 micron in line filter element and the coolant itself to start splashing white milky coolant everywhere :clap:

I must investigate the door interlock. Things aren't supposed to happen with the door open but they do at the moment. I did a minor investigation when I got the machine delivered, as the door contact was one thing that I could operate and measure, so I know the switch itself is OK but someone has nobbled it 'down the line' !
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #692 on: December 21, 2018, 08:30:29 AM »
Well that was easier than I had expected  :thumbup:

It turns out that the key-switch on the front panel inhibits certain setting changes when LOCKED and enables operation with the door open when UNLOCKED. So I suppose it's a sort of maintenance facility built into the machine.


In a fit of enthusiasm I've started to try and get the black overspray off one of the Versatool cabinets. In the picture of 'as it was' it's sitting on a pallet by the way.

When it's all off I'll 'compound' it with Tee-Cut but at the moment I can't find my compounding pad !

Carrying on with the enthusiasm theme I've ordered 10 metres of 25 mm x 6 mm sticky backed neoprene firm foam tape to go on the rear surfaces prior to the cabinet covers going back. There are vestiges of some previous seal but completely crumbled away.

Gosh if the covers are nearly ready to go back I must be getting to the top of this particular mountain!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #693 on: December 24, 2018, 03:48:50 PM »
I spent the afternoon scanning the User / Operations manual for the Beaver TC-20. I have an original paper back copy that is getting rather fragile. Siemens don't have it as a .PDF - it's apparently lost in time (!) so I thought it'd be a good idea to do it before my copy completely disintegrates.

I have a PlusTek flat bed 'book scanner' that allows scanning close to the fold between two pages, which helps enormously, but it still take an age. I've now finished the Operations bit, and have the Programming part to do. It scans in then OCR's the images producing searchable .PDF's which is a very useful format - much quicker to find a reference than in the hard copy (although I much prefer reading hard copy)

Now I need to remember how I managed to stitch several .PDF's together before (I did the same exercise for my Wire EDM machine manuals a few years back - indeed it's why I got the scanner in the first place)

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online Pete.

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #694 on: December 24, 2018, 04:13:56 PM »
I use PDFill for splitting and joining PDF's. It's free and simple to use. Also installs a virtual printer so you can print anything to PDF output. I use that a lot.

Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #695 on: December 24, 2018, 04:20:22 PM »
You know Pete I think that's what I used all those years ago - I seem to remember stumping up $20 to get the 'pro' version. I must search my email archive and see if I still have the enable code !



Later edit:

Yes, still have the code AND it still works - thanks for reminding me  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #696 on: December 28, 2018, 10:01:57 AM »
Over the last couple of days I've snatched the odd hour here and there to finish scanning the  Operating and Programming manual, cleaned up the scans to remove various marks and blemishes, and made the major chapter index entries into active links within the document. It just remains to load it up to my ancient iPad which at the moment is resisting to co-operate. There are about 1500 photos from 2013/4 on it that I want to delete to free up some space, but the delete feature has vanished  :bang: When I tell it to look for updates to it's operating system it says 'searching' for ever, but can update apps quite happily  :scratch:

I gave up searching for my 'compounding pad' to finish off the paint on the Versatool cabinet, and ordered another one which came today - so the cabinet got cleaned up and the black over spray is a thing of the past.  :thumbup:

Also in today's post was the replacement glass for the Rohm tail stock pressure gauge so that got fitted.

And in a fit of 'tidying up' I replaced the covers on the Hydraulic pump / tank assembly and the main spindle motor and it's cooling motor.
(apart from one M6 x 65 mm socket cap screw which was missing when the machine was delivered and is now on order !)


. . .still waiting for the coolant . . .
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline russ57

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #697 on: December 29, 2018, 03:54:21 PM »
I have a sense of impending doom... Another awemawson project is coming to a conclusion.
I hope you are scouring the 'good home wanted' ads for the next exciting saga.

Russ


Offline awemawson

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #698 on: December 29, 2018, 04:31:02 PM »
Funny you should say that Russ but the same thought passed through my head this afternoon as I was fitting the neoprene foam strips on the rear faces of the electrical enclosures before the panels go back.

Fear not, there are things on the 'back burner' that may well come to the fore:

a/ I have a vacuum former - quite a nice one and fully working before putting in storage, but has suffered over the last decade - I'll have to pull it out and give it a bit of titivation and then probably sell it as I've not used it recently

b/ Then there is the 100 kW Induction Furnace just waiting to be brought back to life. It's in the 'welding shop annex' which is actually a fireproof building that I built specifically to house such hot things, but the space is currently bally cold being winter, so it may have to wait until the spring

c/ Then I have a humongous TIG welding machine that needs an extremely large electric feed that I've never powered up in the five years I've had it - apparently it has an intermittent fault, and I have a feeling I know what's causing it, but I need to extract my digit and get on with it !

So sorry you will continue to be harangued by my goings on 'down on the farm' , and actually I will now have a bit more time for the workshop, as I've sold all my sheep and now just have the pigs (the wife has retained her Jacob's sheep)

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Muzzerboy

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Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Reply #699 on: December 29, 2018, 05:08:44 PM »
Interesting stuff in the pipeline! What make is the TIG welder? My Miller / Interlas 320ABP weighs about 400kg and you could almost climb inside - sounds similarly unwieldy. Takes something like 70A from 240V single phase on full chat.