Author Topic: in a flap at Farnborough  (Read 462 times)

Offline BillTodd

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in a flap at Farnborough
« on: July 20, 2018, 01:46:23 PM »
I've just got back from a trade day at Farnborough air show .  There is the usual small booth BS that accompanies the preiphery of the aircraft business   - 100's billions of currency units changed hands this week, so there's always some thing to pick up, business wise - even I have found myself designing machines to make bits to fit sub assemblies , for assemblies that eventually find there way on to an aircraft. Among the smaller booths this year was a couple of guys with a completely off-the-wall idea that caught my eye and I think might interest you lot here:

www.volerian.com

a propulsion system based on a ducted flapping wing! 

Bill
Bill

Offline tom osselton

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 02:33:37 PM »
I donít know I think itís going to be a nightmare to maintain!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 09:28:06 PM »
Nothing like rendering up a scene of happy city dwellers fluttering about like butterflies among the skyscrapers.  What city wouldn't want several hundred thousand of them stalled wing to wing flapping internally in unison, burning kilotons of fuel at rush hour, cawing 20 stories up, or buzzing by office windows, pulling U-turns in a 100 foot width between buildings. Seems easily do-able with the right software and the glut of synthetically produced hydrogen we'll have.

Come to think of it, why wings at all? Too complicated. Just fill a sack of hydrogen and wave a canoe paddle. Joust with your fellow travelers. Outta my way, Bub!

The future is wonderful stuff.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline S. Heslop

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 01:50:24 PM »
They're some bold claims on that website!

I've heard that people in the investment world are having a hard time finding things worth investing in. Which explains why the whole (mostly Californian) tech bubble has survived so long on just a few successes. There's alot of people with deep pockets wanting to be first in on the next big thing, and I get the impression that they're not very informed when seeing pitches like on that website.

About a year ago i read this and I remember thinking it was a good explanation as to what the hell Uber is supposed to be, and you can assume this is how alot of these companies function and survive to some degree. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-one-understanding-ubers-bleak-operating-economics.html

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 02:10:49 PM »
Slight promice of tax evasation is like gummy bears, no person with too much money can resist the idea of getting something tax free....

Offline Joules

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 05:19:17 PM »
Wow, thats some BS laden proposal, come on guys, whats the power to weight ratio to just get it off the ground.   Reminds me of the old black and white film of the aircraft !!!  with the big umbrella opening and closing above it.   ROFL

In fact it gets even more weird, one version of this attempted vehicle had flapping slats....  VERY, much like the above genius proposal.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 06:28:15 PM by Joules »
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline vtsteam

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 11:23:40 PM »
I love the older imaginings. Classier and more fun. The city mass flight dream is an old one, if somewhat imperfect, as envisioned by graphic artists, rather than pilots. Apparently cross-wind takeoffs are not a problem in cities, and runways need only be parallel with the building face. A whole squadron could take off at once with that number of runways -- a great advantage. Private planes could cross right through the middle of the commercial runways, and everyone is guided by vertical beacons. Dirigibles float up from below the runways, providing an breathtaking surprise for passengers and crew alike. The scale of this giant building puts the former twin towers to shame. Just look at the real estate it uses, abutting the empire state building. Most of the west side of manhattan becomes a convenient parking lot.

I do love this older stuff. Wonderfully imaginative. The newer schemes seem so much less grand.

(apologies for the large image, but you just can't read the print otherwise -- attached, anyway)

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 02:17:52 AM »
I recall USS Missouri arriving in England  in 1949 and we, at RAF Hendon and RAF31 ( The Goldstars) Squadron got a a visit from a Bell helicopter.  Understandably, the survivors of the Battle of Britain, Bomber Command and numerous other bits of forgotten history surrounded this  'heap of mechanical bits' shook their expert heads and pronounced that it wouldn't fly..
It did and probably there are more 'choppers' today than what was a miracle of 'a Thousand Bomber raids'

Today, the two of us that survived until now try to collect the necessary funding for these successors to the two ambulance Avro Anson 12's that were part of our bit of aviation.

And Yes, I was at Farnborough 1949. I recall the gigantic Brabazon out of Filton, Comet1 and Meteor8 jets with reheats and 40 thousand feet in  4 minutes.

Farnborough 2018 CAN happen- but there will be a lot of expensive failures- as in my day.

Oddly, I'm scheduled to go back to the now RAF Museum at Hendon on 22nd April 2019. That is quite another anniversary and the burns of the wreckage of exactly 70 years ago cannot be seen. now.

Before then I will be flying into France-- faster than the Spitfires that were parked alongside that 'contraption'

Offline BillTodd

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 04:10:16 AM »
In fairness to the two guys who were 'selling' this: the idea is to make use of a known phenomenon , not magic.

The ducted wing generates thust with a smaller, slower motion than a conventional spinning aerofoil , thus potentially less noise and greater efficiency. The motion of the wing is a simple oscillation , which is not without its issues, but is easily produced compared to the flap of a bird's wing for instance.

They seem to have spent their time developing and optimising the duct aerodynamics rather than the mechanics of the system hence the rather crude wobble cam and lever shown on the site. 

Probably best to ignore the fantastic renderings and consider the idea as an alternative form of propulsion. The idea could have some merit.

Think what this might do for submarines where stealthy silence is life or death.


Bill
Bill

Offline nrml

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Re: in a flap at Farnborough
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 06:30:22 PM »
In fairness to the two guys who were 'selling' this: the idea is to make use of a known phenomenon , not magic.

The ducted wing generates thust with a smaller, slower motion than a conventional spinning aerofoil , thus potentially less noise and greater efficiency. The motion of the wing is a simple oscillation , which is not without its issues, but is easily produced compared to the flap of a bird's wing for instance.

They seem to have spent their time developing and optimising the duct aerodynamics rather than the mechanics of the system hence the rather crude wobble cam and lever shown on the site. 

Probably best to ignore the fantastic renderings and consider the idea as an alternative form of propulsion. The idea could have some merit.

Think what this might do for submarines where stealthy silence is life or death.


Bill

Point well made. The technology will likely develop and find an application but probably not what they currently envision. It makes you wonder why obviously very clever people like them present their technological development in this manner. Is the dragons den (a reality TV entrepreneurship program in the UK) effect making it to mainstream business culture?