Author Topic: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel  (Read 5825 times)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2019, 07:44:43 AM »
Thank you for the link. I don't know how I missed it. Must read in the evening.

Offline Joules

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2019, 10:42:56 AM »
Take a look at aquarium gravel, I am looking for cheap media to try with such as Brasso and paraffin.  The Aquarium gravel is very regular in size and probably more suited for smaller parts, plus I can get bags of the stuff locally at a pet shop.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Joules

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2019, 12:10:45 PM »
 :D

Not forgetting the ultimate tumbler video from Photonicinduction.

Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Joules

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2019, 01:55:22 PM »
I got my tumbler the other day and started doing some tests.  I wasn't keen on buying some of the tumbling media as it can get a bit pricey.  A friend who's Mum lives in France has vast quantities of walnuts, so it looks like I will be getting a sack of shells to play with at some point...
 :lol:
Hmmmm, crusher is going to be on the ever increasing list of projects.   I went to the local pet shop and picked up two bags of Aquarium gravel, not really knowing how much I would need, one bag would have done twice over.  Hey only wimps read the manual first !!!  I did surprisingly read the packet for the gravel and washed the first 2kg as instructed.  Then couldn't wait for it to dry, thinking it will self lubricate wet.   Tumbling was not a success with twice the amount of wet media it rolled about in clumps.   Open the second bag, dry the drum and try that...   Much better and started thinking about different grades of media and getting some spares bowls so I didn't contaminate the media.  That was when I found out you add upto 2lbs (about 1kg) of dry media.  Soooooooo, weighing out the correct amount I went on my way with a few more tests.  Finally doing some serious work with snap rings I make here.  These are stainless steel, heat treated and sized in a die.  Previously they have gone into the ultrasonic tank for cleaning, but this time into the tumbler.  It did a similar job on removing the scale, however the ring ends had the sharp edges knocked off from shearing the wire, and they work hardened a little better after 2hrs in the tumbler.   This isn't conclusive proof your old fish tank gravel will work wonders, but it was cheap per kg.  I did try tumbling some plastic parts, and they didn't float about as I thought they might, but the fine gravel didn't really have much mass to rub down the PLA.  I think heavier media and possibly sharper media would work better.

With more experience I am sure this will become a valuable tool for the workshop and provide surface finishes, deburr of small metal components I make here.  This model of tumbler runs about 60w, so a few hours tumbling won't really impact my parts electric cost.   Tumbling isn't fast, but it's a lot less hassle than deburring by hand and you can be getting on with other work.   My only caution would be using gravel, lay some paper towel over the tumbler to stop gravel dust getting into the shop/lungs.   I sift the gravel after use and discard the material that falls through the sieve as it does get broken up during use.  Plug any holes or gaps you don't want jamming with media in items for tumbling.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2019, 02:41:12 PM »
Interesting test. How did that gravel deburr the ends? Just knocked off the burr or actually round the edge?

I raise thin, but pretty sharp burr when parting off (lathe). Think that lathe burrs are thin but pretty high.

I imagine that those snap rings have relatively large burr.

Offline Joules

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 09:55:32 AM »
Hi Pekka, it knocked the edges off rather than debur, but my shear doesn't really leave a burr on these.  It cleaned the scale off from heat treating.

For anyone after a 3D printed solution I came across this.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3666116
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline appletree

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 03:11:34 AM »
I had a similar tumbler, the lid was solid so dust didnít come out, as the media was heavy I ncreased the mass off the eccentric weight and yes it did work better. Unfortunately the bearing housings wore out. Be warned!

Offline tonyfoale

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2020, 11:08:55 AM »
I recently had to make a trip to the US. Usually on my way back to an airport I stop off at a Horror Fright store and top up my luggage allowance.  However, past trips had pretty much exhausted my needs of stuff small enough for luggage and so I bought one of these
https://www.harborfreight.com/5-lb-metal-vibrator-tumbler-67617.html

and https://www.harborfreight.com/540-lb-Medium-Ceramic-Abrasive-Polishing-Tumbler-Media-63673.html

and https://www.harborfreight.com/520-lb-Rust-Cutting-Resin-Abrasive-Tumbler-Media-63672.html

I also tried some sharp sand and some glass beads.

I feel that I had wasted my money.  It is useless.  Against the wisdom of the instructions I tried the bought media with water.  That worked a little better but still very poorly.
I will try it with some of the media suggestions from this topic.

PS.  A while back I built a very Q&D rotating tumbler using a 75 rpm motor and gearbox from an old photocopier and that works so much better.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2020, 03:20:22 PM »
Great update.

I have been using tumbler and commercial media, laced with polishing liquid. I am happy with results. I typically use it for light deburring and it takes from 1/2 hour to 2 hours of buzz in garage.

Pekka

Offline tonyfoale

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2020, 04:34:08 PM »
Pekka,

Can you give some more detail on the media and polishing compound?
Watching your video shows that the media motion is totally different to mine.  It is much more active and the media path is very different.  Tomorrow I will video the motion of mine and post here.  Comparing yours and mine it is very obvious why mine is such a disappointment.

Your video also indicates that the suspension system on yours has a lower resonant frequency than mine.  i.e. it is supported on softer springs but this could be related to the rpm of your motor, do you know what that is, the specification plate does not include that.  I will check mine with a strobe.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 05:05:26 PM by tonyfoale »

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2020, 06:03:47 PM »
The OP video is not mine, I don't speak German,  Stefan Gotteswinter does!

I bought these:

1: Deburing:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/ceramic-media/triangle/ke-d-46-6-10-10-in-5-kg-bags2

2: Satining:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/ceramic-media/cylinder-angle-cut/ke-zs-22-4-3-10-in-5-kg-bags1

3: liquid for color metals, testing with steel:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/compound/compound-vf-109-in-5-kg-kanister

More on #25:
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,12940.msg155256.html#msg155256

Mine tumbler is cheaper and the movement is a little different. There is that circulation that turns media/parts up to bottom, but the media also "walks" inside the tumbler in clockwise direction.  I noticed that polishing works better when media density is close to part density. I am not sure if this is a general thing or just experience. Also the "cutting oil" seems to help and prevent post polishing rust, but it is hard to put number on it.

Pekka

Offline tonyfoale

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2020, 06:57:56 AM »
Pekka,

Thanks for the info.  It sounds like your media motion is similar to mine.  Mine has a bowl with vertical ribs in it, which must hinder the rotating media.  If I can get a Leyman bowl of similar size I would be interested to see if there was a difference.
Sorry about the mix up with whose video it was. 

This morning I added some detergent and water in the same quantities as in Stefan's video and although it has not been running that long yet it does seem to be working better.  That is with the plastic/abrasive media of the same shape and size as in the video.
Mine has a 2 pole motor in it so it spins at just under 3000 rpm @ 50 Hz, although made for the US 60 Hz which would be 3600 rpm.  I expect that with a 4 pole motor and half the rpm the magnitude of the drum motion would be greater but whether that would clean/deburr/polish any better is anyone's guess.

Offline Ben

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2020, 07:57:33 AM »
Not sure if this is any help

The uk aquarium gravel is most lilky pea shingle that helps keep the white hard water line around the top of your aquarium tank also helps to kill your plants by rasing the water hardness and ph not so good for all the fish

However some peple use german quartz gravel as its inert

Offline tonyfoale

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2020, 12:41:47 PM »
Here is a link to a 20 second video of mine working (or not working) with two different media loads.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dz77ztunty1qp4k/BadTumbler.mp4?dl=0

Compare to the first 10 seconds of Stefan's video.  It is not hard to see why mine is a disappointment.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2020, 02:33:01 PM »
Mine is something in between. I noticed that total weight of the "load" is a factor. My brother has a Lyman case tumbler, that circulates mead a little faster with brass cases and corn cob or walnut. I don't know how much these are optimized (or marginal design). Mine is that loud that I put always lid and leave it running on garage floor (no way of running of the table or scuffing something).

Pekka

Offline tonyfoale

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Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2020, 11:01:55 AM »
An update on my HF tumbler. 
In original form the out of balance weight is at the bottom of the motor.  I considered this as incompetent design, totally sub-optimal, and thought that it should be raised to fit between the top of the motor and below the bowl.  I removed the motor and weight and offered it up to the bowl upside down.  It looked like with minimal mods it would fit.
The original weight was from round bar and to get working clearance I would have to space the downward more than I wanted so I made a replacement weight from some scrap 1/2" steel plate.  The original was also mounted far out on the motor spindle so I cut the spindle shorter and mounted the new weight as close to the motor as possible. with these mods I only had to space the motor downwards by the width of a washer.  Quite acceptable to me.  All that remained was to drill a hole in the base to reroute the motor cable to the switch and power supply.
The first was with an empty bowl and it was immediately obvious that the bowl was vibrating quite a bit more.  Loaded with about 1.5 kg of the plastic abrasive media the flow pattern of the media was very different and much more active.  My assessment of the original design was proved correct but the really annoying thing is that i added no additional parts and the manufacturing cost would not have changed to make it properly.
I'll post some photos of the mods and video of the agitation in the next few days.