Author Topic: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection  (Read 19098 times)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2019, 05:37:42 AM »

The panels were retained by self tapping screws - I don't like self tapping screws in this situation, anyway they were quite rusty. I'll probably replace them with nuts and bolts as hand access to the rear is fairly good. I contemplated putting in 'hank bushes' and may still. At least there is no marking out to do, all the 'pilot holes' being there already !

Do you want to try any M4 or M5 press nuts?
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,11012.msg151330.html#msg151330



I have only M3-M5, they are all stainless steel. Only downside is that they need a reamer or pretty good exact diamter drill. EG. M4 is 5.41mm and I need to check if I have correct one for the steel sheet thickness you have. Can't really remember for which gauge I have them. Send msg. if you are interested. I could send you envelope up to weigh limit. They are all stainless steel. Gave aluminium ones to my brother.

Offline Muzzerboy

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2019, 08:42:12 AM »
The "PEM" style inserts mentioned above require precise hole sizes and "proper" tooling to ensure consistent and reliable setting. They rely on the sheet metal flowing into features in the insert. Great for volume production but not something you can do reliably in a home workshop with a hammer for instance, particularly if you are inserting them into steel.

I've used "rivet nuts" to good effect, available from a variety of places and fitted rather like pop rivets. Simple and quick, available in sizes up to M12 or so.
CPC stock them at reasonable prices:
https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=rivet%20nut%20tool

Offline WeldingRod

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2019, 12:19:52 PM »
I vote rivet nuts too!  I've had good luck with them.

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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »
Rivnuts here too....

I used them when building up the enclosures for the vfd drives for my mills and lathes....Makes attaching everything so much easier....and easier to dismount parts if the need arises.. :coffee:
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2019, 12:52:59 PM »
Thanks chaps for the offers and the suggestions - much appreciated but I've decided on Hank Bushes as I have the kit to fit them.

This morning I set too replacing the eight anti-vibration rubber bobbins that secure the main cabinet to the chassis. Originals were 3/8" UNF x 32 mm tall male male. My replacements are M8 20 mm tall and male female. I saw this as a potential advantage when it comes to fitting, but obviously I needed spacers to make up the 12 mm shortfall. I made eight delrin spacers and 'set too'. It was only then that I discovered that five of the eight originals had been screwed into tapped holes in the chassis rather than held by nuts from below - this necessitated not only unscrewing them but lifting the cabinet even further and drilling out the threaded holes to 8 mm clearance. I got there in the end  :thumbup:

In the process of replacing the rubber bobbins I also removed the cabinet heater, that actually is a green house heater if I'm not mistaken - it doesn't work but I think it's probably a good idea keeping the cabinet dry so will get a replacement.

Then I wanted to sort out the main output terminals as they were flopping about unfixed at one end, not good with this sort of power behind them :bugeye: To my horror I then found that they had only been fixed with self tapping screws one of which had pulled out - the cables attached to these terminals are massively heavy and self tappers are in my opinion definitely NOT correct in this situation. I drilled them out, fitted hank bushes and bolted it back securely.

So, no excuse, get ready for painting. A last go over with a wire brush, a bit of masking of things not to be sprayed, and an acceptance that it's not going to be a perfect job, as the more I look the more bits of flaking paint I see !

So a wipe down with a rag soaked in the 'Universal Thinners' that the paint uses, drag the machine out on the fork lift, spread a tarpaulin to limit the mess on the floor, plonk the machine back on bearers and mix up some paint.

This is when things started to go wrong - I pour paint into a mixing cup through a paint filter funnel but this time I succeeded in overbalancing the cup and funnel dropping a fair amount of paint in the process  :bang:

Clearing up the mess I started spraying and it went quite well - first gun load of paint went on nicely. Diluting the second batch I messed up somewhere as initially it was far too viscous, and when I added a bit of thinners I went too far in the other direction and ended up with some runs. Still this is only the first coat - at least one more to follow and an opportunity to rub down in between.

Still it definitely looks far 'bluer'  :clap:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2019, 02:10:09 PM »
Rivnuts here too....

I used them when building up the enclosures for the vfd drives for my mills and lathes....Makes attaching everything so much easier....and easier to dismount parts if the need arises.. :coffee:

What I've been referring to as Hank Bushes are indeed the same a Rivinuts - seem to work OK if you get the hole sizes correct !

Googling tells me real hank bushes are pressed in from the rear of the panel with a press, whereas mine are set rather like a pop rivet from the front.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2019, 04:19:00 PM »
I installed a great many hank bushes as an 'apprentice' sheet metalworker assembling light boxes for a big contract. Popped them in the hole and set them with a small ball pein hammer.

Offline tom osselton

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2019, 04:33:56 PM »
I never heard of them before I had to look them up.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2019, 04:40:44 PM »
Pretty much all good ones needs accurate (reamed hole) and assembly with press to give any good service
http://www.captive-fastener.com/Catalog/Recommended%20Installation%20Procedure.pdf

But it is not diffct to asemble them right - if you have press and can make the anvil.

Offline Muzzerboy

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2019, 05:51:36 AM »
Pekka - what you are describing is different to the Rivinut / rivnut / rivet nut everyone else is talking about. Your product is a solid insert that is NOT deformed itself during insertion, whereas the rivet nut is held in place by deformation of the insert by the tool.

In my multi-decade experience of these parts, the market leader (and originator) is PEM (Penn Engineering) https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/. In fact, if you look closely at the Captive Fastener online catalogue, you will see that the product design copyrights are actually owned by PEM.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2019, 07:21:16 AM »
The day started with sorting out three pigs that were due to go on a one way journey (Sorry Will_D !) but when that was finished it was time to get a first coat of paint on all the odds and sods that I'd removed for various reasons.

Spread another tarpaulin and set them up and gave them a first coat - some like the insides of boxes, will only get one coat but other bits like the lids for instance will need another coat.

I used up the gun full of paint catching a few bits on the engine that got missed so it will have to wait a day or two to harden before I can Scotchbrite it and then give it another coat.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 04:59:16 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2019, 07:54:22 AM »
Whats the paint Andrew? Celly or summat else?

Looking good so far...Any idea how many hours run the unit has clocked?
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2019, 07:57:51 AM »
Pekka - what you are describing is different to the Rivinut / rivnut / rivet nut everyone else is talking about. Your product is a solid insert that is NOT deformed itself during insertion, whereas the rivet nut is held in place by deformation of the insert by the tool.

In my multi-decade experience of these parts, the market leader (and originator) is PEM (Penn Engineering) https://www.pemnet.com/fastening-products/pem-self-clinching-fasteners-new/. In fact, if you look closely at the Captive Fastener online catalogue, you will see that the product design copyrights are actually owned by PEM.

True...Thank you for the link. It all looks familiar:
https://www.pemnet.com/design_info/animation-library/pennengineering-animation-library-nuts/pem-self-clinching-nuts/

.I just saw few picures of similar self clinching nuts and someone mentioned hammering....I have used that pop rivet variety too, they come often as a kit. No idea what pullout forces or torques will be on those kits. They look usefull for blind assembly though.
http://www.swfastener.com/pdf/RIVNUT-TheOriginalRivnut.pdf

O-O

Good work Andrew. Accept alfanumeral "Like". Like Fords at background too.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2019, 08:03:48 AM »
John, the paint is a professional version of the now discontinued 'Hammerite' - it's quick drying and covers a multitude of sins !

The meter is showing about 600 hours if I remember correctly

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline timby

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2019, 08:09:56 AM »
'Hammerite'   is still around,        https://www.hammerite.co.uk/

Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2019, 08:18:54 AM »
NO! What is now sold as Hammerite is NOT the original formulation and is a shadow of the original product originally made by Finnigans Speciality Paint.

Like many products it's been 'dumbed down'

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2019, 08:30:52 AM »
We used Hammerite by the 5l tin when I was at ICI.....anything coming into the workshop for repair got a lick, along with an undercoat of Galvafroid.....Genkleen was the solvent of the day for cleaning up afterwards...

But like Andrew says, the latest Hammerite is not what it used to be.....( crap imho....)
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Offline timby

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2019, 10:00:37 AM »
NO! What is now sold as Hammerite is NOT the original formulation and is a shadow of the original product originally made by Finnigans Speciality Paint.
Like many products it's been 'dumbed down'

Yes I expected a reply  like that, I used to manufacture a product and I used gallons bought directly from Finnigans.

It was easy to  spray as  a one coat covering onto my welded product.

 Finnigans  used to say "do not spray below 50 degrees F" but it worked OK when it was near freezing point in my workshop. 

Offline hermetic

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2019, 12:27:59 PM »
well that looks 1000% better with a coat of paint Andrew!! Guy who used to spray for me in the "old days" used to carry a clean paintbrush in his pocket when spraying odd shaped machinery like this, and brush out any runs he got, so when you put on the next coat, they dissapear.
Phil.
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2019, 12:52:56 PM »
It's certainly better Phil, just don't get close enough to see the detail  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline AdeV

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2019, 03:09:10 AM »
I believe the Americans refer to it as a "20ft paint job" - i.e. it looks good so long as you're at least 20ft away! Obviously a "10ft paint job" is what you're aiming for  :)
Cheers!
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2019, 05:09:37 AM »
Up early this morning, gave it a bit of scraping in places and a rub down with a green Scotchbrite before giving it another coat. It's actually come out quite nicely and I reckon it's OK up to about 2 foot away now Ade  :clap:

Photos probably won't look too different from the previous ones but the actual job definitely is better :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2019, 05:35:57 AM »
Looks good. I reeks utility and looks loud even when it is not running.

Good job.

Offline JHovel

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2019, 10:01:02 AM »
So Andrew, what WAS the paint you used then? What brand and sources? You only hinted that it was the "professional" version of Hammerite....  :scratch:
Cheers,
Joe

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Puma / Dorman 6LE / MacFarlane B46B / 110 kVA Generator Resurrection
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »
That looks like a far better paint job than I could ever achieve.

But, for aesthetic reasons, I think it needs some small parts picking out in a different colour.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!