Author Topic: David's Mini Lathe......  (Read 4621 times)

Offline Stilldrillin

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David's Mini Lathe......
« on: October 08, 2019, 04:17:14 PM »
One of my pals, died last year. He was a member on here. davidcurtiss021.

Poor chap, never properly, got to grips with retirement, or making swarf. Alternately, he was unwell. Or his lathe was..... 

This was one of his final problems..... https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,12166.0.html

The lathe is mine now. It arrived, as a  lego set, in several boxes. In serious need of rebuilding.

I started during the summer......




I finished the mechanical work, this weekend.......




Next up. The electricals. Never before, fumbled with Sieg's, mysterious clever stuff.....




Inside the box.......




And, back view of the loose board......




I plugged together, what seemed to fit together.

Not sure which way around the input lead fitted, as both outputs from the emg switch, were black/blue wires.

Switched on. Hoping for a click. Or, a little light...... Nothing!  :scratch:

HAH! No fuse, in the plug.  :thumbup:

Fitted 3amp fuse. Switched on..... Nothing!  :scratch:

Metered the supply, into this gubbins. But, not out of it......




No fuse in there, either......  :thumbup:

Fitted another 3amp fuse. Switched on..... Nothing!  :scratch:

Checked the fuses. Both of them had blown. Quietly....  :(


That is the limit of my electrical understanding. It's time now, to hand over to a higher authority.

Hope you guys can sort me out, as you have done several times in the past......
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Deko

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 06:59:47 AM »
I would love to be able to help Dave, but electrics I am OK with, electronics are way beyond me.  :zap: 

Sad to hear of your mate dying, but that is one of the things that old age brings with it. I have lost quite a few mates in the last few years.  :(

Seeing that you are still posting is great, and I wondered if you would be going to the Midlands show next weekend ???  :beer:

Cheers Derek.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 07:09:11 AM »
David,
As usual always glad to help.....

First up, have you got a dvm, know how to use it?
Can you follow a schematic drawing?

Is there an XMT number on the speed control board? ( I think it might be XMT 2335 or summat...)
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Offline Joules

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 11:29:29 AM »
David, youíre not a million miles away from me (Rotherham). I have a fair bit of electrical test equipment if you need help.   Available weekends.  :dremel:  and a very similar Mini lathe here.
Honour your mentors, and pay it forward.

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 05:00:08 PM »
I would love to be able to help Dave, but electrics I am OK with, electronics are way beyond me.  :zap: 

Sad to hear of your mate dying, but that is one of the things that old age brings with it. I have lost quite a few mates in the last few years.  :(

Seeing that you are still posting is great, and I wondered if you would be going to the Midlands show next weekend ???  :beer:

Cheers Derek.

Hi Derek.
 Thanks for your kind words.
I reckon, you will have met David, back in the Harrogate days.....

I'm afraid, me old feet n legs are not up to show standard anymore.
 Only allowing up to an hour at a time. Even if I'm doing something really interesting, in the shop......  :(
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2019, 05:12:56 PM »
David, youíre not a million miles away from me (Rotherham). I have a fair bit of electrical test equipment if you need help.   Available weekends.  :dremel:  and a very similar Mini lathe here.
Joules.
 All the years, I have seen your handle. I thought you were in France! Not just up the road!  :palm:

Thanks for your kind offer.
 
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 05:26:15 PM »
David,
As usual always glad to help.....

First up, have you got a dvm, know how to use it?
Can you follow a schematic drawing?

Is there an XMT number on the speed control board? ( I think it might be XMT 2335 or summat...)
Hi John.
 This is becoming a habit, isn't it! :palm:

Dvm? Sounds like my little black box, with a needle in a window.
 Tells me if a fuse is good, or blown.... Also, if a wire is live, or not. (A few other things, as well).  :thumbup:

Schematic drawing? Probably.
 This one will be no problem. Mebbe...   http://littlemachineshop.com/reference/drawings/4507-XMT-C3Lathe.pdf

XMT-2335........




Are we off to a good start?  :thumbup:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Joules

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2019, 01:03:43 AM »
I found this, but I guess itís probably out of date being from 2006.  It is however a starting point.

Honour your mentors, and pay it forward.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2019, 04:24:00 AM »
David,

I'm assuming you have all the wiring in the right place...,,?


****With the lathe unplugged from the mains***

With new fuses fitted where needed, meter switched to Ohms range, can you measure between the Live and Neutral pins on the 13Amp plug, do this with the Red E-stop button not latched....
What reading do you get on the meter?

We are looking for a low value that is causing the 3A fuse to blow......

If the result is good, that is there is no short across the supply, I suggest disconnecting the motor and in its place a 100 watt light bulb, then try the machine plugged in..


Joules, good find on the schematic...the circuitry hasnt changed much over the years, they are basically the same as the KB boards from the USA..
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 04:23:07 PM »
Hi Joules.
 Thanks for the diagram. I'm afraid, it's lost on me, these days.

In the past, I have built a couple of rc, (valved) receivers. But, that was some 60+ years ago......
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2019, 04:29:57 PM »
Hi John.
 This evening, I have checked the wiring against the little mc shop diagram.
All is correct. Though, several terminal screws were a little loose.

Tomorrow, I'll apply the meter......  :zap:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Joules

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 04:41:35 PM »
No worries David, the schematic is here for you and others.   Perhaps over time we can build up a table of test points and voltages for others to fault find from, as it seems a common problem sorting these boards out.
Honour your mentors, and pay it forward.

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2019, 10:30:08 AM »
What reading do you get on the meter?

We are looking for a low value that is causing the 3A fuse to blow......

Is this low enough, John?  :palm:

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2019, 12:09:19 PM »
David, that is a low reading, likely to cause a fuse to blow....

I see there's a little power supply in one of the previous fotos, can you disconnect the power feed to it and measure again?
If the reading is still low, can you disconnect the mains wires going to the speed board and try again...?
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2019, 02:57:43 PM »
John.
 The speed control knob doesn't click, off. In the stop position.
Thinking this might be at fault, I disconnected all three wires. No difference.

 The feed wire to the transformer, is already, not connected to anything. In the pic, it lays over the top of the control box.

I have also pulled out the plug, where the wire to readout connects.

No difference......  :bang:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2019, 03:44:25 PM »
David,
The two wires connected to the speed control board at the Line In terminals, can you disconnect them from the board, then:
1) measure the resistance across the L and N pins of the mains plug ( do this with E stop in its normal state) ( this will determine if there is a fault in the incoming wiring stuff)
2) measure the resistance across the two Line In terminals on the speed control board...
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2019, 04:37:02 PM »
John.
 Wires disconnected. Meter across plug pins... No reaction.

Meter across, the two terminals. Needle fully over, reading zero.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2019, 05:16:40 PM »
David looks like theres an issue with the board then...

Would you like me to look at it and effect a repair?   :zap:

( I just checked, a new board is £132... From Arc..Ouch, didnt think they were that much...)
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2019, 06:05:34 PM »
Please John. I certainly would!

It's a pity, I can't fit one of the spares, you repaired last year.....

No rush. I'll detach, and box it up, over the weekend.

Thanks for your input. I've enjoyed this little fault finding exercise.....
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2019, 03:45:12 AM »
Do you have my current address? I'll message it to you...
I dont live in Hull anymore.....

Why cant you fit one of the others? Are these the KB boards?
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2019, 04:28:36 PM »
John.
 I have your address, from Feb/ Mar, last year. When you repaired two KB boards.

Still not installed/ tested em! The best way to never have a breakdown, is to have spares.....  :thumbup:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2019, 03:19:05 PM »
The board is now on it's journey North, to John's.  :thumbup:

I was imagining the chaos, all those loose wires could cause. (Despite having a diagram).  :zap:

I thought it best to tape em to each other, before removing the board......



David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2019, 04:43:05 PM »
Several times, over the years. David called here, with lumps of his lathe for modification.

The first project was to replace the orrible saddle strips, with solid ones. Seems they have stood the test of time. No work needed on that area. Still sliding sweetly...  :thumbup:

A couple of years ago, he installed taper roller bearings. Calling here, for the gear spacer mods.

Faced the front one to correct alignment. Then made a 2mm thick, spring "wave washer", from a couple of turns of stainless welding wire.

Just visible, to the left of the Lo gear.......




When it arrived here, I realised, it still wasn't right.

I faced 3mm off this face, to allow for the wider bearings.......




The tumbler gears, are now aligned correctly......

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2019, 04:13:04 PM »
Next up, was the leadscrew handwheel.

Using a left hand, leadscrew plummer block, bushed to 10mm bore. On the r/h end.

Lopped the end off the leadscrew, and inserted a length of 10mm silver steel.....




Left hand dial, is held onto plummer block, with grub screw.

Right hand dial is fixed to handwheel. 10 thou' between graduations.......

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2019, 03:40:29 PM »
Next job, tailstocks. Got three of em. The blue one is mine. It's quill thread is rather tired.

Mixing and matching. Hoping to finish with two good uns.

Anyone contemplating a camlock?
 This one is useless. Won't clamp securely to the bed. Slides under quite light pressure......




Making a clamp nut.......




Think that looks at home, under there.......




Can be accessed, over the top of the compound slide.......

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2019, 04:33:13 PM »
I converted a Clarke CL300 tailstock to camlock.....copied the exact same from my Sieg SC3... Worked a treat..

After sorting the motor ( had to buy a new one..) and speed controller, I sold the machine on....

But the camlock is one of the best mods ever for the minilathe...
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2019, 04:41:48 PM »
John.
 I guess your conversion would be quite robust, compared to the genuine Sieg version.

I wouldn't like to try to drill 6mm, in m/s. The tailstock would be retreating, under load.

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2019, 03:08:35 PM »
Sorry for the usual delay. Life, yer know.....  :palm:

The magic box, of coloured magic parts, came back from John's.

It works very well. The wheels go round, just like they used to do.....  :thumbup:




I was surprised to see, the original lathe is rated at 3,000rpm.

This set up peaks at 3,600. And, the bearings don't like it. They gibe, and the motor cuts out.  :scratch:

I guess, we now need to lower the overall gearing......
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2019, 03:43:38 PM »
What bearings are you running? Tapers? Is the preload set ok, not too tight?
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2019, 04:22:55 PM »
Yes, tapers. Not set for any machining, yet.
 Just gently nipped, until there is no discernable movement, felt by hand.

The proper set up, is to come after a bit of running in.

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2019, 04:53:10 PM »
Managed some workshop time, yesterday.

While I was busy, I set the lathe running in Lo gear, 700 rpm.
 Tweaked the bearings, after 10mins, and upped the revs.

Eventually reaching peak revs in Lo, 2,180. (Seems rather high to me)......  :scratch:

All seemed ok, so I changed to Hi gear.

Ran for a while, eventually reaching 3,000rpm. The supposed peak revs. 
 Wound it up, a bit. Reached 3,600. The digital reading stayed there, but the revs continued to obey the speed control.

The bearings seemed happy. Not getting warm at all. So, I tweaked the speed control a bit more...
 The revs climbed higher! Until the motor cut out, with a, "PUP".  :zap:

Apparently, no harm done! (Except to my nerves). It re-started, as usual.  :thumbup:

Grabbing my laser tacho, I decided to see just what were the peak revs?  :scratch:
It peaked at 5,000rpm!!  :bugeye:  .. Before going, "PUP":zap: again.


That's just a bit too enthusiastic, for my liking.......  :palm:


Time to check the motor. Should give 6,000rpm. According to the label.....




Reflector tape, on the pulley......




By ek! We must have the GT model.......




John suggested checking the voltage supplied to the motor. As, this determines the motor speed.

The result wasn't helped by my 35yr old meter reading x 2(+).

500+ volts! I don't think so.......




New meter on order. Further fumblings, in a few days time.

Any comments/ helpful advice gratefully accepted......  :thumbup:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2019, 04:52:37 PM »
The new multi meter arrived, early this afternoon.

After a bit of familiarisation,  :zap:  I checked the full revs voltage to the motor.

That's, ok......




John suggested, I check the speed pot, R3.

As the other two, are sealed, with gloop. I guess, someone has twiddled with R3......




I set the lathe running, sensible revs. Rotated R3 anticlock. The revs reduced!  :ddb:

1/4 turn at a time, on R3, while increasing the speed knob setting.

After almost 2 turns, we hit a "stop". Flat out at.......




Guess the "stop/ resistance" was the original position of the pot. I'll leave it alone from now on. Probably.  :thumbup:

Sincerest thanks to Mr. Rudd, for his help and guidance, through fings wot most of us don't understand.  :mmr:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2019, 04:42:22 PM »
Spent ten mins in a perrishin' cold workshop, today.

The lathe produced blue swarf, from a piece of 1" dia unknown steel, just as I hoped it would.  :headbang:

I now have the rest of the winter/ springtime to bed it in.
 While making a few mods to my original, mongrel mini lathe.  :thumbup:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Meldonmech

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2019, 08:16:56 AM »
 
 A very interesting post.
                                              Cheers David

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2019, 05:17:23 PM »

 A very interesting post.
                                              Cheers David
Thank you, David!

Nothing much of interest will happen, over the next few (cold), months.
 If/ when it does. I'll post pics etc.

Incidentally.
 The next owner, says he would like a Dixon toolpost installing. Before delivery.....  :palm:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline DavoDavo

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2020, 08:41:26 AM »
David looks like theres an issue with the board then...

Would you like me to look at it and effect a repair?  :zap:

( I just checked, a new board is £132... From Arc..Ouch, didnt think they were that much...)

Hi John,
Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm hoping you can help me.
I have a Sieg X2 Mini-Mill with an FC350BJ/230V motor controller board that has bitten the dust  :zap: (motor speed goes berserk on full throttle - somewhere around twice its rated speed of 6,000 RPM).
The motor is 350Watt 230V, same specs as the lathe I believe.
The original board is no longer available and it seems that the replacement is the XMT-2335.

The XMT-2335 has more terminals than the old board and I haven't been able to see how they are labelled from any pics of it, and I don't have a circuit diagram for the mill either, so I'm wondering how to wire it up, I looked very carefully at the pics that were posted of David's lathe controller but couldn't see how it was wired - you mentioned a small transformer in one of your posts but I think that is a power supply for the lathe speed display.
The terminals on the FC350BJ are:
1 and 2 - DC for Motor,
3 and 4 - AC for 230V Mains input,
5 Not sure what it's for (goes to one of the switches on the panel I think, the board is on my desk right now), and
6 and 7 jumpered together.
And then there are P1, P2 and P3 for the control pot.

 :bow: I'd be very grateful if you would let me know what you can about it, you know a lot more about these infernal devices than I do.

Many thanks from an Expat-Pom living in Australia.

Cheers,
Davo.
Cheers,
Dave (Yes, another one. I'm sure we're being cloned somewhere)  :scratch:

Offline John Rudd

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2020, 11:12:04 AM »
Dave,
Helping is no problem....
I'll dig out the schematic for the XM board, I think the best thing to do is take this off line...my email address should be in my profile or you could pm yours to me....

If the motor is going flat out then chances are the fets are shorted....board can be repaired but I doubt you'll find any one down under...you could send it to me here in the uk....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2020, 05:44:06 PM »
By ek!
 It's been a while, since I showed anything about this project.  :palm:

All the loose bits have already gone to Scotland.
 And the lathe is slowly being crated, ready to follow.

Must find and show some pics.....
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2020, 05:54:39 PM »
This lathe refurb, was always intended to be a long term project. As, when, and if....
 Consequently, it is still on schedule.  :thumbup:

Back in February, a new 4" chuck and adaptor, arrived......



I made three balance plugs for the redundant holes in the adaptor plate. Then realised, only one was needed!  :doh:

I like to fit 40mm x m6 grubscrews, shortened as necessary, as chuck studs....




Everything fitted together well. But the workpiece insisted on 5thou'+ eccentricity!
 Started to check every locating point.....




All's well here, too......




That's disappointing! The chuck is 5-6 thou eccentric, on all three (six) jaws......  :(




Relieved the locating recess, by a few thou per side.
 It's easy enough, while changing chucks, to set true to a mandrel. Before finally nipping the chuck nuts.....




Thanks for looking in!  :thumbup:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2020, 08:36:00 AM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Great project David! Sorry I've been away and missed the start.

 :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline Kjelle

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2020, 08:06:38 AM »
 :wave: Welcome back Steve!! Missed you!

Kjelle ( in Sweden!)

Offline vtsteam

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2020, 10:46:41 PM »
Hi Kjelle,
I haven't done any metalworking in over a year. But I know I will get back into it at some point soon. I tend to cycle through interests every several years-- taking a break periodically, but never giving them up entirely. I guess dropping in here tosee what's happening is a sign I'm thinking about it again.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline tom osselton

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2020, 04:22:00 PM »
Nice to see you checking in!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: David's Mini Lathe......
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2020, 05:44:51 PM »
Thanks Tom!  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com