Carbon Credits

[Darren]

Having contemplated the carbon credit proposal, I am struck with the sheer brilliance of the concept. It appears that if we trade carbon emissions as a commodity, then somehow we are addressing the source of the problem and remediating it. And I thought that to reduce the increase in CO2 we need to reduce the emissions of CO2.

If I am wrong and carbon trading is actually a viable method of reducing the CO2 increases, then I propose that we carry it to the next logical level, "disease credits." Countries with rampant disease such as malaria and AIDS could trade disease credits with healthier countries. By doing so we wouldn't have to actually do anything about disease but we could all feel better about it.

And what of "poverty credits"? Countries with many impoverished people could purchase "poverty credits" from countries with fewer impoverished people. I haven't figured out what they would pay with however.

It seems that if we can make all of our problems a tradable commodity, then we will have no problems at all. I am now going to speak to my kids about "chores around the house" credits.

Chris De Witt, Reno

[bogstandard]

Darren,

You can bet your bottom dollar, some fatcat somewhere has come up with the idea, and will make money out of it.

If they can't skim off the top, they wouldn't even bother with any idea or suggestion.

It is people like that which got us into the situation we are in now, and because the loopholes are now being plugged, they are just coming up with other ways to scam and live the high life, by climbing on the backs of the more unfortunate.

The easy way would to be is to grab all the fatcats cash and assets before they had a chance to hide it, and use it to fund all the required poverty and disease problem fixes. It was those people who caused most of it in the first place, by stealing the natural wealth of the impoverished countries, so denying them the means of helping themselves. Diamonds, gold, oil, you name it, they stole it, and it is still going on today.

Start first with all politicians and their high flying croanies, and work your way down.

Bogs

[RipSlider]

Done properly, carbon credits, or any type of credits based system is a truely fantastic idea. The implementation is where it gets messy.

Lets say a town has five factories that cause pollution. This year they each get given 100 pollution credits - 500 in total. They are allowed to produce 100 credits of pollution each. If they go over this, they get fined £20m per credit of excess pollution.

Next year you say that there can only be a total of 480 credits of pollution - you don't care who has them. If there are any more - EVERYONE gets fined £20m per excess credit.

The year after that, the total credit pool drops to 420, then 350 and so on.

Companies have a financial carrot to reduce pollution, in that they can sell their spare credits - they make profit by going "green". There is also a stick in that there is massive fines if they don't clear up. There is flexibility in the system, in that if a slow moving company really has to, it can buy excess credits for a while so it can clear itself up. And there is peer pressure from all other companies to ensure all the others keep getting greener as well.

The two main reasons why credit systems don't work is firstly something like the amount of pollution generated by a given company is difficult to audit and measure - so how do you accurately work out the initial level of credits? You can't, so to be safe, you over-shoot. Also there are a lot of pressure groups trying to keep the numbers of credits in the system high, and to have the yearly reductions very low.

The second reason is that most governments won't penalise the companies in their countries sufficiently to make it a sczary proposition. Instead of a £20m per credit fine, it'll be £50. So it's often cheaper to pay the fines than it is to clean up. But if you happen to have spare credits, it's still nice and easy to sell.

like many things, including most the idea's that come from my wife, a nice theory but never practical in reality.

Steve

[PTsideshow]

Don't you in England already have cap and trade and didn't your utility cost jump a bunch like they did in Germany it jumped 25% as the companies passed it on.  And by the way made record profits. I know they all are running around here telling us that oh don't worry about it your utilities cost won't go up much only $125.00 a year.

As some are saying it will go up as much as $3,000 a year because most utilities in the US use our abundant coal supplies. The other thing I love is the statements coming out of Washington that say pay no attention to Spain and the other green countries were the shift to green economy isn't working like they thought. As far the jobs, and other benefits.

They also have a bill from 2 of the geniuses somebody elected that wants to limit repair parts and charge not a tax, but a surcharge on the parts for the older equipment,( lawn and garden, small engines),cars and trucks that pollute more.
Wait till it becomes well know he that if the cap and trade passes in order to sell your house you will have to have it inspected and brought up to the federal energy building code.

Which all local communities will have to agree to if they want any federal money in the future!

Least we forget the wonderful man That is the driving force behind global warming! The same fellow that claims, that the book and movie "Love Story" was written about him and his bride Tipper. And that he single handed invented the internet!

Al "my SUV running with the air conditioning on for 3 hours while I'm inside giving a speech"  Gore.

So how much has your utility bills gone up each month since you have something similar to our cap and trade/carbon surcharge, its not a tax! There in jolly old England

You can bet your bottom dollar, some fatcat somewhere has come up with the idea, and will make money out of it.

The rumor over here is Al Gore gets from one penny to 5¢ for every dollar that changes hands, Through one of his global warming front non profits since he copyrighted or patented the idea and process.
Nobody really looked into it yet.

They have already coined a new word for the coming collapse of western civilization in 2012
due to unemployment, food riots and gangs etc. They have started calling it Obamageddon. 
They are now worried that India has joined Russia and China in calling for a new world reserve currency. Because of what is going on in the USA.

I guess that old Chinese curse. "may you live in interesting times is coming true"
glen

[bogstandard]

Glen,

I am waiting for the time when we will all have nose and mouth meters fitted. Then they can tax us on how much we breathe. Or pressure meters on our feet, again so they can tax us for wearing away the earth. Of course, those ideas will come from people who think their crap smells of roses, and never walk anywhere.

Until all utilities and resources are put under independant and neutral non profit making control, prices will rise continually as the fatcats get fatter and the thin people end up dead. But as we all know, it will never happen, money and greed talks louder than common sense and humanity.

BTW, the quote above was mine.

Bogs

[Darren]

I think we must have come from the same bloodline somewhere in the distant past......the same as 90% of the population......

[Darren]

Don't you in England already have cap and trade and didn't your utility cost jump a bunch like they did in Germany it jumped 25% as the companies passed it on. code.

glen

I believe the actual figure it rose was 47% as it was a percentage on a percentage...it is set to do the same again this year.

The predictions are that if we use the amount of gas and electricity at the current rate we today then by 2020 the average annual bill is likely to be 5,000 quid a year.
http://www.moneyhospital.co.uk/blog/post/we-face-5000-a-year-energy-bills-20129?cid=MH271

Of course we can't afford those figures so we will be going cold and sit in the dark at night.



What can we do, not a lot. But we personally have fitted 5x20 solar tubes to our roof along with a 300lt hot water cylinder last year, it's working exceptionally well and we have free hot water for around 8mths of the year. Even in the depth of winter the tank normally sits at 20-25C instead of 6-8 which helps reduce the cost of heating it.
Secondly, we have almost finished insulating our whole basement with 75mm of high value insulation boards. In one large room down there if you have the lights on for just one hour and stay in it, it becomes comfortably warm with no other heating source in the depth of winter.
Why the basement, cos it stays at a uniform temperature all year round and is well sheltered from the winter bite.
It was also in the worst condition compared to the rest of the house when we bought it, so it got done first.

We can only try and hope we are doing the right things while we are still young enough to get them done.

Besides, it's now a very nice room.

 

[Darren]

Oh, and they can't tax me on making hot water from the sun or for using less energy to heat my basement.

Well not year on year...they did to install and renovate or so they think, but I beat them on that too.....deleted unsuitable words for minors  

[John Hill]

Fart tax!   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0309/S00040.htm