What is wrong?

[bogstandard]

I have noticed over the last few months, as the membership is growing, that project posting and replies to them has fallen off sharply.

It seems that if your are into sucking slugs, it gets a lot more response than the very good engineering posts that a few members are putting up here. Also the way to extend and get more interest in a project post is add an off topic bit to it, and it flies away at great speed, with more interest in the off topic bit than the original post.

Does this mean that the membership are more interested in general chit chat than what the site is all about, members projects.

Do we need to use the off topic rule more fiercely?

What does the membership think about all this?

Why are only a minority few showing projects?, when we have such a growing membership.

This is a way  post, maybe we can get a few more answers than if it was an on topic one.

Or is this formum just going to become a general chit chat site?


Bogs

[Darren]

Totally agree...

Examples relating to my posts:

Bandsaw auto off modification. It was simple and it works properly, just one reply

Post on slugs: Whilst it may have been a tad titilating it was not of the subject of this forum. Eleven replies...

What does that say about us?

Like bogs says, are we into modding/engineering or are we more interested in slugs...



This is in no way a reflection on the few that do post good articles on a regular basis....and it is sadly just a few members.

I scour the net, and I have found some members web sites with some really interesting projects. Can I suggest you take the time and post some details here. Projects don't have to be current to be interesting to the rest of us....

Just some thoughts YMMV..

[rleete]

Why are only a minority few showing projects?

In my case, it's a matter of time.  I work full time, and have a lot of stuff going on (last weekend it was the brakes on the Jeep), so shop time is limited.  I don't figure anyone wants a pictorial on replacing brake rotors here.  I suppose I could post a thread about the single parts I've made, and add posts as I progress, but that would drag it out forever.  Lately, I'm trying to concentrate on one project at a time to help avoid that.

I did make a rather crude finger/treadle engine recently, but the camera has been down.  Repair is next on the list, so I should have something to show soon.

[sbwhart]

Is it the same sympton that deters people from introducing themselves, we seem to be getting less introductions than in the past, are we as regular posters a little too intimidating, not wanting to get into selfe analysis but I know I can be a little abrupt over the net at times, on a face to face meeting with people I like to think I'm not like that, but it is a beahaviour the anonimity of the net can foster in people.

It may be as simple as:- through the summer months (northern hemisphere) people just don't have the time for projects the're to buisey enjoying the good weather.

Just my thought for the day

Not getting too heavy or Froudian but still having fun

Stew

[Brass_Machine]

I think Stew has it right... I have noticed on other boards, it tends to die down a little during summer months. Last month was slower than May, but as I check the stats, we are on target for posts and such to hopefully have July equal May.

I know for myself, I haven't had time to get into the shop. Nor have I had the strength this week...

I have a feeling we will pick up some more soon.

BUT, to those guys who have joined but not yet posted... why don't you?? We don't bite! Get to know us. Share with us what you are doing. Even if you are new to making/building/modifying, maybe we can help with ideas and advice. Post up!

Eric

[rleete]

Another reason may be the "me, too" syndrome.  I see a post on how to make a carriage stop, or mount a chuck to a rotary table, and decide that it's good idea.  I make the same thing, without any significant additions or revisions, so it's kind of pointless to post pictures of what has already been shown.

I'm still learning and making stuff, just not anything new.  If I use the ideas, but don't have much to contribute, i'll keep my mouth shut.

[Darren]

Ah yes, but it's the feedback that makes the original poster feel his effort was worthwhile.

Please do show and tell....

[Brass_Machine]

Another reason may be the "me, too" syndrome.  I see a post on how to make a carriage stop, or mount a chuck to a rotary table, and decide that it's good idea.  I make the same thing, without any significant additions or revisions, so it's kind of pointless to post pictures of what has already been shown.

I'm still learning and making stuff, just not anything new.  If I use the ideas, but don't have much to contribute, i'll keep my mouth shut.

Ahh but you should post up build logs even if you are making something that someone else has done. It encourages more people to get involved and post.... know what I mean?

Eric

[sbwhart]

Another reason may be the "me, too" syndrome.  I see a post on how to make a carriage stop, or mount a chuck to a rotary table, and decide that it's good idea.  I make the same thing, without any significant additions or revisions, so it's kind of pointless to post pictures of what has already been shown.

I'm still learning and making stuff, just not anything new.  If I use the ideas, but don't have much to contribute, i'll keep my mouth shut.

Yes I can understand that:-

I made a vice stop based on Johns thread but as there had already been a number of posts on the same subject I contented myselve with just posting a finished pic, as an off topic on another thread.

If people think a subject as been done to death perhaps, they could do a simple post in the related thread showing their interpretation of the subject, its always usfull and interesting, to see how others go about things, and its always nice to see that you've been a help to people.

Cheers

Stew

[Bernd]

I have noticed over the last few months, as the membership is growing, that project posting and replies to them has fallen off sharply.

Bogs

Well, it's summer. Lot's of projects to do out doors when your working on finishing a house. Got back Monday afternoon from vacation, wife is still at there, and the lawn needed mowing, the blades of the mower had a few nice dings in it so it needed sharpening. So the last two days I spent making hay.

After I paid all the bills that had come in over the last week there isn't any left for raw stock for the hobby, espiecialy after buying new tires for the truck which came to over $500.

With the wife still at the camp I needed to make something to eat so had to do a bit of cooking, remember no money to eat out.

Today I need to gather things and load the car so I can go back to the camp tomorrow and bring her back so she can go back to work on Monday.

Now I can go into more detail if you like but I think you get the idea. I did get a chance to think a bit about my trike project while I was at the camp. I plan to do a little bit more soon.

Not all of us are retired. We have yard work to do to make the place look nice and a hobby is supposed to be an enjoyable pass time when nothing else occupies your time.

Regardds,
Bernd

[Darren]

Guys,

I don't think we are referring to the regular posters so much, but more of the 300 or so members that stay silent.

You joined for a reason, so why not take it one step further and join in  

[NickG]

I think a lot of the people that lurk on these forums have an interest in model engineering but maybe have never bitten the bullet and actually tried it. They have probably seen these models at shows and like to think they could make something similar, but don't have the commitment so have never really bitten the bullet and tried it for real. Maybe they don't have the machinery or skills, but if you're going to get the skills / experience, you need to do 1 of a few things for example 1. join a local club with access to knowledge and equipment 2. bite the bullet, buy some equipment, take some advice and have a go. 3. attend night classes.

Other things that could happen are people that used to be active in the hobby but circumstances have changed, they no longer have the time / eqipment / conviction to do it, but still like looking at the models. This nearly happened to me, I got interested at the age of 13 and it was basically all I did until I started University. Then other interests were on the horizon - cars, women, socialising, work etc. I was still very much interested and got back into the hobby a couple of years ago, all-be-it on a rather small scale and it took a long time.

I reckon there will be others that are reluctant to post project logs when they see the quality of some of the stuff on here. I've said before some of the stuff I've posted on here I feel is small and insignificant compared to some of the fantastic projects, but I always try to put some feedback / supportive replys as that is what keeps the project logger interested and ensures it's worthwhile posting.

Finally, I think Stew may have a point about the regular posters being intimidating, well not sure if that's the right word, but a similar thing happened to my wife. She was a regular poster on a forum and a few of them set up a 'breakaway' group and a new forum. This quickly became quite a clique, or at least that's the impression they gave. I wonder if lurkers on this site see the main posters as some sort of clique. I know the regular posters are not like that, they are simply sharing their experiences and offering much help.

I hope we can get more people posting, I will hopefully be posting a few more smaller scale project logs when I've got my workshop set up!

Hope some of that made sense, just chipping in with my views!

Nick

[bogstandard]

I honestly don't think we give the impression of being holier than thou. In fact I apologise at times for showing and using some of the shop equipment I have, not my fault, its all I've got to work with. We can't all have the smallest and most basic machines in the world.

I always recommend people show their efforts during someone elses posting, even though it might be a badly made part or piece. Not only does the original idea poster get a boost from knowing that other people are taking notice of their ramblings, the newbie or other person will get as just as much recognition for his offerings. What would this sport be like if we all made things to very high standards. Methinks, very boring, like 'Oh! no, not another perfect V12 engine'.

As Darren has stated, from the most lowly to the ones with a great deal of experiences should get mixed up in the postings. I learn a lot of things from newbies, they have a more unblinkered way of looking at things, and can come up with some novel ideas on getting around problems, especially lack of tooling ones. We are all in the same melting pot here, and unless we get that certain mix, the stew will turn out tasting awful. Then you will need to suck slugs to get rid of the bad taste.

As mentioned about people who would like to build things, but don't have the wherewithall to do it, whether it be confidence, machinery or cash. I think even if they just made the effort to post a comment, they would feel a lot more at home than just sitting around the outskirts, feeling sorry for themselves. I don't think I have seen on this site any posting that says you must be making things to be involved. Just a good, or bad, comment is all that is needed.

We can't do much about the people who just don't have the time, only to say, if you have the time to read this, it only takes the same amount of time to post a comment. Even if it is, 'I like that' or 'what a load of crap', at least it is a comment.

Bogs

[Divided he ad]

Well.... Personally I have no leg to stand on here..... I've not posted anything of great use for some time and I am spending most of my summer evenings out with friends.

But....

I'll say this much, IMHO there is a lot to be said for a forum where people do have a very odd sense of humour and post odd little things that are of no engineering subject what so ever.... I think that's one of the reasons I like this place so much..... Many of the other places I have tried are right stuck up jobs!

I really love the engineering stuff, I'd have thought that apparent? But I really like the humour element shared with you guys too



This summer is too good for me to spend stuck in my shop, which has a polycarbonate roof and acts like a green house! I'll be back making stuff soon enough.... Although project house starts again on Saturday    Want to see a log on that? Might help me finally finish it off??


I really want to make more little engines, but I really want to make other stuff too.... This is a site dedicated to the modding of anything and everything after all!  What to make/mod.... Now that's the 64million £/$ question!! 



Right I've waffled for long enough.....


You guys are great and your engineering and humour suit me just fine.







To all those who have joined but not yet posted........



You're missing out 






I'm off to the pub! (some of us gotta have fun too you know!  )



Ralph.

[cedge]

John
Considering the season and the outdoor activities many of us are chasing, I'd say the board is getting a normal traffic pattern. I'm one of a minority who consider summer time to be shop season. Winter seems to draw the rest back around hearth, home and shop.

I too wish more of the lurkers would join in the fun, but long experience with forums and news groups tells me your expressed frustration is likely to be long lasting. There is simply a segment who will never surface to actively contribute. We do, however, sometimes underestimate their contributions. They obviously mention the forum to friends and associates and that has helped this board grow. 

Putting your bare arse out in public view is not something most people will ever be comfortable with. My own is leather tough and battle scarred enough that I've learned to enjoy it, but its still an adrenal rush when I start up a new project thread. Once begun, it's a whole lot of fun and it certainly keeps the project moving. I highly recommend giving it a try.

Steve

[sbwhart]

 Although project house starts again on Saturday    Want to see a log on that? Might help me finally finish it off??

Ralph.

WE WANT TO SEE A THREAD ABOUT RALPHS LOG CABIN

Stew

 

 

[John Rudd]

Guys,

I don't think we are referring to the regular posters so much, but more of the 300 or so members that stay silent.

You joined for a reason, so why not take it one step further and join in  

seems to be an internet thing...I'm an Admin on a 'famous' modelling forum, here are a few stats...

362,245 Posts in 17,602 Topics by 5,768 Members..with over 25 members who haven't activated their account...


Every now and then we prune the list purely because it takes back up space on the server..

We also suffer from the same lull in posting ( saves having to moderate so many posts too ) during the summer months..So its not just this place where things are quiet...

[bogstandard]

This posting has now done it's job, and given valuable information. Thank you gents.

Another member and myself had discussed this offline, it is most probably the people at fault, not time of year. This was the only way to prove it.

I posted this  post at midday today, now, 8 hours later, there are 16 posts in this topic. Ok a few are mine, but only in response to other postings.

Most short technical posts on here get usually about a total of four or five at best and if they are lucky, but usually a couple is about the norm.

So 16 for  , just a few for on topic.

So this proves that it looks like it is a general discussion about crap, or guilt, that brings people out of the woodwork. Not working projects.

To the people who say that it is the time of year, but managed to post in this topic, I am sorry, if you can post on this topic, you should be able to do the same with the great technical posts we have on here. By the looks of it, technical posting has little or no following any more.

There is only one course of action that can be taken at this time, ban every off topic post for a short while, and just let's see how popular, or unpopular, the site really is.

To me, and a few others I am sure, a very, very sad state of affairs.


Bogs

[Baldrocker]

I watched this maliase happen on HMEM a while ago.
Now it seems to be infecting this forum.
ELITEISM.
BR

[cedge]

John
Is this recurring desire to chew on this same old bone a seasonal thing with or do you do it at random intervals. It's getting almost too predictable. Let the board be what it is and stop with the whining already.

Steve

[shred]

I'd suggest part of the problem is this forum isn't like most of the internet machining forums-- the bigger, easier to find ones where newbie-flaming is a well-practiced art form.  Got a machine from the wrong country?  You suck.  Don't agree with the Mighty Guru?  You're wrong.... You know the forums... Anybody that's been through that is going to be very careful about posting anywhere and might just hang out and quietly suck up all the info they can.

Cedge had a good post about the few forums that do think somebody's first wobbler engine and 7x12 lathe is cool and don't immediately drop a 'here's my shinier, fancier, better one' post right on top of it.  There aren't many.

[foozer]

I honestly don't think we give the impression of being holier than thou. In fact I apologise at times for showing and using some of the shop equipment I have, not my fault, its all I've got to work with. We can't all have the smallest and most basic machines in the world.

Lurker here. I learn a lot from what is posted here. I haven't a clue as to metal types, what to expect from cutting em, but watching the curls come off is fascinating.

So I try to use what I have to get two pieces fit together. Sounds a lot easier than it really is. What I'm working with is an old AA109  aka boat anchor, and more than once it was headed for the sea. But it is improving as I practice more (still better to blame the machine)

Tried to make a fancy flywheel once. Little thing figured mount it on a face plate at an angle, get some weird offset faces and cut the spokes with the double tapered look. Ha! Boy did that get ugly real quick. Salvaged what material I could and ended up with an insert type with a taper lock hub. An idea from this board. With your writeup on flywheel making using soft jaw chuck, I went out and got one. I love that silly little thing.

Current is trying one of itty bitty rocker/thimble engines, tiny pieces, so started on the axle piece. I cant even focus on em but what the heck. It is good practice in getting the numbers right. Smaller the part, less room for error.

So the post the regulars do make are not in vain. I'm sure that like myself the information is taken in, posting my amateurish attempts, well . . .


Robert

[bogstandard]

I watched this maliase happen on HMEM a while ago.
Now it seems to be infecting this forum.
ELITEISM.
BR

BR, unless I have been wearing the wrong glasses, I have never seen a single incident of elitism on here. Everyone who has asked a question, in my mind, has been given a fair answer without reverting to 'well you must go out and buy such and such to carry out the job'. I my opinion everyone (except in one case) has been shown what to do with the bits they have to hand with no malice or holier than thou thoughts showing through.

You might have confused elitism with a group of the same members doing all the posting on this site.

It is nothing to do with elitism, it is just a fact of life that a few core members are doing their level best to keep the site interesting, and the rest of the membership just sitting back on their ar**s and not responding to anything.

I can tell you now, those core members are spending most of their free time, making up posts, scratching around for ideas and articles that just might keep the members coming back. Not elitism at all, just a group of people dedicated to keeping the site interesting, FREE OF ELITISM, and where members can get assistance if they need it.

It is not our fault that the normal membership can't be bothered to write a short comment every now and again.

With regards to HMEM, that was recognised many moons ago, and was brought into public discussion by myself, and was shouted down and ignored. It seems exactly the same thing is happening here.

Bury your heads in the sand, and let natural progression take it's course was the order of the day.

You now have a HMEM that will never be able to revert to it's original goals, where 'holier than thou' and 'elitism' reigns.

So much for natural progression.

John
Is this recurring desire to chew on this same old bone a seasonal thing with or do you do it at random intervals. It's getting almost too predictable. Let the board be what it is and stop with the whining already.

I do love these open discussions Steve, unfortunatley you are totally wrong this time.

This time, I am just the gob on the front, the one who raised the issue.

A few of the 'elite' prolific posters have had a few private discussions in the background, I am sure you can find a way of making even that illegal, and have basically come to the same conclusion. We break our backs, like you do, making all sorts of things, and spend most of our waking lives making up posts to be shown on here. Only to have it all ignored by all and sundry.

Then why do it you may ask. We want to see the site survive and flourish, but it seems like the rest of the membership don't want that to happen.
If they just want information, then I suggest they go out and buy a book. This forum is about showing what we do, in a light hearted and informative way. If the membership can't be bothered to respond to what is being shown, then why should we even bother to make up the posts in the first place?

Without feedback, how are we to know what the membership thinks, and what they want to see. I don't think any of us who do technical posts are clairvoyant, it should be up to the members who are reading our ramblings to let us know what they want.

Let the board be what it is and stop with the whining already

I am very sorry but this just doesn't cut it this time Steve, please read the above reply to BR's statement.


I would just like to add a thank you to Foozer above, for taking a bit of time out to let us know what he gets out of the site, and any comments like that are deeply appreciated.

Keep up the good work Foozer.

Bogs

[cedge]

Bogster
We'll have to agree to disagree. I've watched this scenario played on several boards and it always ends in the same manner. This time I'm sitting by and let it run its course. I'm not the engineer on this particular train.

I will call foul on the elitism comments... for both boards. I've been on the elitist controlled boards and neither of these venues comes even close to being guilty of that sin. If moderators holding posters to certain standards of safety and civil behavior is a sign of elitism, then your definition is badly skewed. 

Steve

[sbwhart]

Hi Robert

Thanks for you input and comments, that fly wheel looks interesting your second picture especially I can see what you were trying to do, a pity it didn't come off, the basic idea seemed OK, perhaps you could have another go some time, you have to try these things and learn as you go.

Cheers

Stew