Author Topic: Project Halo  (Read 29591 times)

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2009, 04:55:26 AM »
The spring is not my idea Stew, just something I picked up along my journey.

If you want any springs like that, I am sure we can find one or two.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2009, 04:57:46 AM »
Hi John,

I'm not sure if I missed it in your posts but on the round parts you drilled at 45 and the square in line?

I take that it's not critical then..... :scratch:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline kvom

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2009, 08:39:51 AM »
My reading of the plans is that the orientation of the holes IS critical.  The holes in the flange are for mounting on the crankcase once the flange is squared.  The holes on the cylinder orient the cylinder head.

Offline Darren

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2009, 08:47:49 AM »
Thanks Kirk,

Just me no reading properly then, 45 to each end it is then.... :thumbup:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline NickG

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2009, 11:31:26 AM »
Bogs,

Great to see you churning this superb work out. I think we all learn from your posts. Can't wait to see this thing start to take shape, it's a beast!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline kvom

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2009, 06:21:28 PM »
Based on this and other threads, I have put aside some other projects to work on making a tapping station.

Offline Darren

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2009, 06:42:05 PM »
You won't reget it, I was forever snapping small taps until I made/adapted a small drilling machine.

The difference is unreal and no more broken taps....It's very hard to explain why it helps, but once you've tried it you'll never want to use a small tap the old way again.... :dremel:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2009, 07:20:14 PM »
I had these done a couple of days ago, but it is only now I have felt like spending a bit of time doing a write up.

If you remember a couple of posts back, where I made the drilling jig, but also said a part of it was to be used later, and that I had machined the flats to a critical dimension. Well this is how it works.

I am using the square collet block from a 5c block system to put the square ends on the flange.
First off, I turned up a couple of stepped pins, 1/8" to match the holes thru the jig and the other end turned down to the same size as the holes in the flange.




The cylinder was mounted into the collet but the collet wasn't tightened up, the cylinder was free to rotate. The jig was put into the bore and the pins were located into two diagonal holes thru both the jig and cylinder.




I had previously calculated how far the flat on the jig was from the centre of the collet block, so that it would sit perfectly flat when pushed down onto a 1/4" parallel. So onto the flat surface on the back of the vice, the para in position, the collet block was pushed down until it too sat flat on the flat surface. The jig and cylinder rotated in the collet until the flat on the jig sat perfectly flat on the para. The collet was then tightened up, leaving the cylinder in perfect alignment to have the flats machined on the ends and the holes to be in the correct position.




The collet block was mounted into the vice against the backstop, and the cutter brought down to the correct height. Everything except the Y axis was then locked up solid.




By rotating the block and taking single pass cuts, the flats were machined on the ends of the cylinders. They only took a couple of minutes to do each one, and each square was within 1 thou of nominal size. That'll do for me.
Except, because of my impatience or rushing, I managed to fluff up two of the squares, so I am down to only one spare cylinder. It always makes sense to have a couple of extras in the background. Not to worry, the duff ones can be used for setting up the next machining operation on the lathe. That will save having to use good ones.




This is another method I could have done it without the use of the collet block.

Zero up your RT, including the degree scale. Stick two pins in adjacent holes and push a para or a piece of tool steel against the pins.
Rotate the part in the chuck until you get a zero/zero runout on the DTI when run down the Y axis. Once that is done, get the correct distance for cutting and do your standard 0,90,180,270 cut.




Here is another shot of the setup.




All the bits ready for the last operations on the lathe.



As I have said, this is how I did it. I am sure there are many ways and methods you could use to achieve the same result.

Unfortunately, later this morning, I have a banana lathe to sort out, so it might be a while before I can carry on with this post.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2009, 07:53:56 PM »
Fancy a game of Skittles anyone.....Johns got the pins, who's got the ball?... :ddb:


Looking good there John......coming along nicely.... :thumbup:
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2009, 01:33:15 PM »
John,

Without sounding like a kiss ass... It is remarkable to me how quickly and accurately you get this stuff done. I aspire to be half as good my friend.

Eric
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bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2009, 01:40:45 PM »
Thanks Eric,

But due to me having some unfortunate bad news, I will not be able to continue with this post for the forseeable future, unless I can steal a little time for myself.

Sorry about that, but family must always come first.

I will still try to help out on the site when I can't sleep, late at night.

So if you see me burning the midnight oil, if you can, give me a Skype call if it shows I am available. I am always up for a bit of gumbeating, day or night.

John

Offline NickG

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2009, 02:18:13 PM »
John,

Sorry to hear you have had bad news, we will miss your project logs whilst you take care of priorities. You shouldn't have apologised, anybody else would have to do the same. Hopefully we can follow your example and create the interest with some posts of our own.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2009, 07:57:24 PM »
Over the last few days, I have been pecking away at the cylinders doing a bit here and there. So this is the stage that they are up to.

I have come to realise that these cylinders are in fact the trickiest bits of the engine to build. The rest of the bits, although fiddly, are really just straight forwards machining exercises. The cylinders on the other hand are all to do with 'feel' to get them right. So hopefully, these bits I am showing here and in the past few posts will get you over the main stumbling blocks.


The first thing to do when using the topslide for the feed and very fine plunge cutting is everything has to be square to each other. If you don't do this, not only will measurements be out, but you will start to break the fine cutting tools.

The first thing I did was to zero up the topslide (compound slide). It was a matter of slackening the hold down bolts slightly, and either by winding on the topslide handle (laborious) or winding the saddle (much better), and gently tapping on the topslide sides,  you get the topslide showing no deflection from straight. Very gently tighten up then recheck.
The area shown to check on isn't perfect, but unless you want to strip down to the dovetails, this will have to do you.




Again, this isn't the perfect method, but it works for me. You would usually set the lathe tool edge square to the rod in the chuck, but because I am using such small tooling, it is easier for me to do it this way.




A piece of rod was mounted into the chuck to make a holding mandrel. Once this is made, it will not be removed from the chuck until every machining operation on the cylinder has been carried out.
This mandrel will be used to hold each part in a perfect position for it to have repeatable machining operations carried out, without having to worry about resetting everything up and rezeroing each time.




A spigot was turned to be a nice sliding fit in the bore, and about 1/16th shorter than the cylinder length.




The end was drilled and tapped to take a short bolt with a washer fitted.




This is how it looks with a part fitted.




I will explain about how I mount the cutters first.
Because I am only using a 3/16" cutter in basically a 5/8" holder, it can be difficult getting the grub screws to grip while as mentioned before, getting the tool square to the chuck centre axis at the same time. This is how I do it, because it makes it easier for me, and the tool should end up to being spot on or very close to square




Now first off, I will explain about the tooling. Because I will be cutting hundreds of fins and slots, I made up three double ended tools. The cutting areas only have front rake. Because I am cutting brass, no top rake is required, and because I will be plunge cutting, hopefully square to the lathe axis, I don't use side rakes either. They were just ground up on my surface grinder, three ends at a time to exactly 0.025" width.
The text comes next. I worked out a machining sequence for cutting all the grooves and fins to exactly what is required on the drawing. If you don't want them to look the same as that, you will have to work out your own.
By having that working procedure, it was very easy to work out dial settings to religiously follow that at the end, I will have what is required.
This is all on the assumption that you have all your bits to the same length (or within a couple of thou), and the tools are set EXACTLY ON CENTRE HEIGHT, NOT NEAR ENOUGH, BUT EXACTLY. If you don't know how to do that, just ask and I will make up a little article on how to do it.




I used the first scrap cylinder to check that the tools I had made would have no problems plunge cutting to the depths required.
Now for the trial cuts. Using the second scrapper, I followed my machining routine to the letter.




This is what it turned out like, spot on.
When you cut the end fins down to size, small rings of brass are produce that sit in the grooves. The hooky tool is to get them out of the grooves.

So now that the finning has been proven, the flange area has to be completed first. So that is what I did, put the finning tooling to one side, and prepare for getting the flanges to the correct thickness and position.




Just a reminder, all tooling has to be sharp enough to shave with, have clearances that will work, and again, be EXACTLY on centre height. These are the very basic rules for lathe work, if you can't get them right, you need to take up knitting instead.

So what I did was stick one of the scrappers onto the spindle, with the correct end to be machined nearest the tool (it sounds obvious, but a few times I have done it the wrong way around, and ruined perfectly good parts before realising what I was doing).

Using the saddle stop, I machined down the flange until the spigot formed was spot on size. The topslide and cross slide dials were both zeroed with the tool in it's final cutting position.




The second scrapper was used to prove the settings. They again were spot on. So now I could work on the real thing.




One of the precious parts was mounted up (I only have one spare left). The tool was moved into the zero/zero position, and taking a cut towards the head at full depth, was cut until the saddle hit the stop, then with hand pressure holding the saddle against the stop, the cross slide was wound outwards to remove metal that was left by the angled front cutting face. This was repeated on all the remaining parts.




21 spigots cut in no time.




Now we come to what I consider the most difficult cut on the whole engine.
Because of where the fins end up near the flange, the widest cutting tool that can safely be used to cut the flange to thickness and depth is 1/16". Plus because it will be plunging to a depth of around 0.280", and an interrupted cut caused by the square flange and the four holes in it, the tool will require side clearances. As you can see, the root of the cutting part is very thin, and because I ground this up by hand, I don't want to have to make another one, so very easy does it.
As can be seen from the schedule, once the depth of cut and position of cut is obtained, everything will be locked up, and the cut will be done by the cross slide only. So cut to depth, retract, change part, cut to depth etc etc.




The tool was set up with the cutting face square to the lathe axis.




Depth of cut was found and the cross slide dial set to zero.
I have to mention that I could not use the scrappers for setting up, the interrupted cuts that they would have made would almost certainly have resulted in a broken tool.




The saddle was locked up and shallow plunge cuts were made on the back face of the flange until it was the correct thickness. Sorry about the quality of the picture.




Now ready for the cut. I had the machine running at 900 RPM, and fed fairly fast until I reached the main meat of the part, then I hand fed at approximately 0.002" per second, using a very smooth continuous two handed swapping action. A continuous steady feed is even more important than the feed in speed. If you are speeding up and slowing down or even worse, stopping, that is when you will get tool breakage.

This shows the finished groove.




I must have done something right, because I got them all cut, and the tool lived to cut another day




So the cylinders are nearly fin-ished, just got about 200 of them to do.


Bogs

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2009, 03:41:13 AM »
John,

Nowt to add.......  :bow: :bow: :bow:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2009, 04:04:04 AM »
 :jaw: You Rock John. :jaw:

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2009, 04:27:09 AM »
Thanks gents, but you must inform me of any areas you don't quite understand.

With this being a warts and all build, if possible, by following it, you should be able to build one of these engines if you have the plans and materials.

By not understanding something I am doing, then you are leaving yourself open to mistakes.

But that is not to say my way is the correct way, you might have a better solution with the equipment you have. In fact, I did consider using a slitting saw and RT to machine all the fins and flanges. But for me, that would have been a long and arduous process for the quantity I have to make, but it might be acceptable to someone who has only a few cylinders to make, and isn't too sure of their tool grinding and plunge cutting abilities.
In my case, it is like parting off 200 items to perfect width. I have no trouble parting off, but others might consider it a thing from hell.

Many thanks again.


John

Offline NickG

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2009, 04:53:43 AM »
Great stuff John, I've never attempted to plunge cut fins that thin, it always scares me but think I could probably tackle some meatier ones with your advice now.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2009, 05:20:12 AM »
Great write up John,  :thumbup:

CC

Offline kvom

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2009, 07:48:13 AM »
Nice work John.

Two questions:

1) On the tapered part of the cylinder, do you cut the lands to diameter directly, or did you pre-taper first?

2) The crankcase plan shows .001 difference between the hole and the spigot.  My plan was to use a .500 reamer for the hole and turn the spigot to fit.  I was wondering what your plan is (i.e., what diameter are your spigots?)

Offline ozzie46

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2009, 07:57:58 AM »


 [ and the tools are set EXACTLY ON CENTRE HEIGHT, NOT NEAR ENOUGH, BUT EXACTLY. If you don't know how to do that, just ask and I will make up a little article on how to do it]

    Please do John, I'm very interested in how you do it. I have been setting up by adjusting the tool to the dead center point, but don't know if that is close enough.


   Ron

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2009, 08:18:20 AM »
Kirk,

Nothing was pre cut for the tapered finning. By using my cutting routine, everything comes out as it should. All the plunge cuts between the fins are done first, then the fins are plunge cut to correct size afterwards.

All the spigots I have made are 0.500" give or take half a thou. Because the crankcase is not pressurised and so doesn't need to have close fitting cylinder parts, I am most probably going to just drill the holes in the crankcase, haven't decided just yet, I might even bore them, that is just as quick as drilling. A couple of thou 'woggle about' clearance isn't going to do any harm to this engine. But I will be making a drilling jig that drops into the 1/2" hole and machined flange recess, to allow me to very quickly hand drill the four flange mounting holes.

You have to remember, you will be using your RT standing on it's side, so throat clearance has to be thought of when coming to fit long bits into holders. I usually wait until it is all mounted up before making a decision. I might find that the only cutting tool I can get in is a 1/2" slot drill, and so will have to use that. Or maybe even use the spindexer, that would give me a lot more throat clearance.

Those are a long time off yet, and anything can happen in the meantime.


Ron,

I need to get all the fins cut before I can change the lathe over. As soon as that is done, I will make up a bit of a post to show all the methods I know of to find centre height, then people can add their ways as well, so it will then become a reference post. Unless someone wants to start it off before I am finished.


John

Offline ozzie46

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2009, 11:12:31 AM »


 No hurry John, I know your pressed for time on these Halos.  I'll be waiting :coffee: :coffee:


Ron

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2009, 03:02:31 AM »
I went over to see John yesterday (didn't get onto my 'puter last night!) He showed me the cutting of the fins on these very small cylinders........  :bugeye:

5 min's and there's another done...! Fair do's a bit of forward planning added to the very quick and accurate turning of the handwheels and it was all done!


The DRO set up meant that the work was barely looked at :jaw:    I can see me saving up!  :lol:


It was good to see you John, seems like ages since the last time.... Always good to sit down and talk through stuff  :)




Also now I've got a little more than a bit of plastic material to practice making flywheel spokes on....... So now I have to concentrate!!!  :scratch:






I'll be looking forward to seeing how you get around the next bit when you do :thumbup:






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline NickG

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2009, 03:49:34 AM »
Ralph, I remember using DRO's at university and I agree, good quality ones are superb. Just due to the amount and quality of equimpent, I made things there 11 years ago when I was 18 that I have not managed to repeat on my machinery!

I intend fitting some digital scales to my machinery but don't think I can justify proper DROs! Some of that money would probably be best spend on tooling for me such as a rotary table, quick change tool post, power hacksaw etc. things to take some of the tedious stuff out which will encourage me to do more!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

bogstandard

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Re: Project Halo
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 03:51:13 AM »
Glad you enjoyed the demo Ralph. The DRO's do save a bit of time, but instead of DRO gazing, watching the handwheel dials would be almost as fast. A little bit of preparation, and difficult bits like cutting the fins are not difficult any more, as I showed you. Also, I was not doing anything that anyone else on here couldn't do, if a little bit of care is taken in the setting up.

It is always nice to have visitors, especially in these difficult times. It cheered Mal up no end.

Now you just get on and practice on that RT, you will soon be banging out flywheels by the dozen.

Thanks for the visit.

John.