Another Fruitful Day in The Hills

[Darren]

I didn't really know where to put this post, so I've stuck it here....


An ad came up in my local Freecycle for some window sash weights. Of course I begged for them.....

In the ad the chap asked for a brief explanation of what they might be wanted for, so he could choose the successful applicant accordingly....quite a common request on Freecycle.

I told him of my workshop and even put a link up to this place......well it worked...but best of all he told me to come over to the Welsh Highland Railway workshop!!!
oooh....sounds good to me....TBH I didn't know of it, I knew about the other Railway but not this one...

I met a very nice chap there and he gave me these,



He then invited me into the machine shop.......read, big toys, excited little boy.....
Some nice machinery in there, met some of the chaps, talked tools etc as you do. Got a good look at a Briggy to check out my pulley issue (well you would wouldn't you)
Obviously it became apparent that I knew at least something of machinery and also obviously we discussed the Beaver mill.

To top it all I was invited to come down and join them in the workshop, I explained that it's all relatively new to me and I've only just got the Beaver etc, etc....a  total novice compared to these guys.
Rubbish I was told, come down, watch, learn and we'll see if we can't teach you a thing or two and get you using some of the machines. "you'll be fine"

You know I just might take them up on the offer.....

Anyway, whilst chatting outside I spotted a Quaters and Smith hacksaw looking rather neglected. I asked what it was doing outside in the elements to be told they'd pulled it out to go off for scrap tomorrow.....!!!

Well my face must have said it all...."do you want it"........and thus they loaded it into the back of my car.......for free....
Feeling rather guilty of scrounging I asked if they had a donation box for the cause and duly left a deposit of the monitory kind.
I was then asked if I wanted a Boxford lathe......!! These guys are just too kind, but I declined as it was a plain lathe and didn't offer any advantage over what I already have. let someone else have it I thought.

Anyway here's the saw





And it cut this 80mm steel bar like butter.....Until the motor died, no matter I have spares..can't complain eh...



It does need a minor repair to a bushing, the part will have to go on the mill, but I think it will fit.

Then the chaps threw these in the car





Some pictures of my afternoon









And some machines, this was quite a big miller. They were making quite a few of these









Anyways, just to make you really sick   I found this in the scrappy yesterday, works fine too....



He couldn't decide what it was worth, so told me to bugger off.........

[John Hill]

You jammy bar steward!

[Brass_Machine]

I am on the train heading home so I can't really see the pictures in their full glory but it sounds like a good haul machine, material and possible knowledge. By all means, take them up on the offer. I wish I had something like that around here.

Eric

[John Stevenson]

Those sash weights, smack them on the ground so they snap in the middle.
If the break is dull grey keep them, if they have any shiny bits in them at all dump them, they will ruin every tool you own.

Remember sash weights were cast out of the last of the melt to get the most out of the weight melted. the result was that a lot had high percentages of dross in them, didn't matter for what they were used for but they are very unpredictable.

John S.

[CrewCab]

You jammy bar steward!

John, those were going to be my "exact words" 

Darren ............. how do you do it, can you pick some lottery numbers for me this weekend  .................... well done mate .......... right place, right time eh 

CC

[PTsideshow]

Yes, yes, yes a very good day or even week for that matter indeed! As Sir John said also wack the out side with a hammer of the weights to check if there are any voids in the castings, after doing what Sir John suggested. They were only done as close to shape and suggested weight for the money. I like the flat sided ones better because they make good hold downs with a lot of rolling around!
As to the hacksaw problem, it was the use as a paint can shaker that made it pack it in.

[sbwhart]

Hi Darren

Looks like you've dropped on some good contacts there Darren.

The milling job you showed is a bearing block for a loco, it looks a real nice job, those chaps know what they are doing.

You're not the only one who's a "jammy bar steward" looked at what I dropped on



It was being scrapped off at a workshop I visited the other week because of being 240V single phase, it was outside in the rain, I asked if I could have it, took it home let it dry out for a couple of days, plugged it in stood back switched it on and it ran smooth as silk, a lot better than the cheepo grinder I got from B and Q, the wheels were in good nick too, just needed dressing up.

That saw looks a good size too a little bit of tlc will do the trick.

Have fun

Stew

[bogstandard]

If you don't ask, you don't want, so you don't get.

They can only say one of two things, and one of them sometimes ends with off.

Very nice finds there gents.

Darren, I use sash weights for a lot of my cast iron for model cylinders and the like, and what John says will stand you in good stead.

If they have the loops cast on the end, that is usually at the bottom of the mould. I normally find that cutting off 3" to 4" at the opposite end to the loop gets rid of most of the slag and dross, and I am usually left with a good 12" of useful, just over 1 1/4" diameter cast iron bar that has been seasoned for maybe over a 100 years. With such a fine grain that it can be polished to an almost chrome like finish. It was sash weight material that I made the cylinders for my two 'paddleducks' engines, and the boxer flame licker, plus others that have long since gone to better homes.

Bar of that diameter is now about 1 squid an inch if bought from model engineering suppliers. It is well worth the trouble getting it out if you can.

To get rid of the skin, you start at the broken end and then cut below the skin thickness, say a 0.020" (0.5mm) cut. That way it should just peel it off as it goes along. If you try cutting into the skin by going along the outside, say goodbye to a few tools.
For the initial breaks to length, I score around the skin with an angle grinder to a depth of about 1/8", and then 'tap' it with a sledge, it normally breaks off rather cleanly. But now you have your power hacksaw, just cut into the skin with the angle grinder to give the blade something good to go at, and just chop to length.

John

[Darren]

Thanks for the encouragement guys.... 

Yes, it was one of those days when you just know things are about to change......I will try to follow up on the offers, some good socialising and knowledge to be had me thinks...

The saw as far as I can find originally had a 3ph 1HP motor fitted, along with the always missing suds pump like the mill. One day I'll find a machine with it still present. Dream on eh....

The motor was a 1/2HP single phase and prob why it gave up. The machine was also running too fast which wouldn't have helped it.
I have a 1HP single phase motor that I'll prob fit, that should do it. I suspect the old one was wired in reverse, not certain on this, it just didn't look right?

Anyone got any info on which way the motor should run? I'll do a diagram later to try to explain why I believe it matters, but it's a bit like the Rocker engine, one direction the blade is being pushed straight, the other the wheel is lifting the blade arm up/down.......confusing?....I'll do that diagram...

[bogstandard]

I think a 4 pole 1ph motor would do better Darren, as you know, they run much slower.

The saw should cut on the backwards stroke, and lift off on the forwards.

A tin can or bottle hanging up on a pole, with a tap and a flexible tube going down to the blade will solve your coolant problem. Just have a pipe connected to the table drain, thru a filter and into another container, ready to be used again.

John

[Darren]

Thanks John, I keep forgetting about the suspended bottle trick, prob be good enough for this task.

Both the old 1/2hp and new 1hp motors are 4 pole, so I'll fit a smaller pulley on the motor. I doubt the one fitted is the correct size, prob just what was on the motor at the time.

Quote
"The saw should cut on the backwards stroke, and lift off on the forwards."

I'm not sure that will work on this machine? But I'll go and have a look later with that info in mind and see.....thanks I wouldn't have thought of it...

[Darren]

Nice find on the grinder Stew, the old ones have something about them don't they......like some metal in em.....!!


Mine has the usual grey wheel but on the other side is a Brown one, it's sorta mottled and is finer grained.
Any ideas what it is for, or is it just a finer wheel?

[Darren]

Found this very informative page on grinding wheels......http://www.georgiagrindingwheel.com/grindingwheels_basics.htm#faq1

Seems brown is a general purpose grit, in my case a finer grain than the other side.....

[CrewCab]

"The saw should cut on the backwards stroke, and lift off on the forwards."

I'm not sure that will work on this machine? ...

Hacksaw's, be they manual or mechanical always cut on the backstroke, there's no particular magic, the profile of the teeth will lift the blade up on the forward stroke.

CC

[Darren]

Thanks....I will look into it....

Been looking at that bushing I was going to fix on the mill. It turned out to be a loose locating pin and is all ok now. No need to machine anything.....

It has a hydraulic lift pump, needs new seals mind but when don't they....!! I'll study that to see when it lifts.....

[Darren]

Hacksaw's, be they manual or mechanical always cut on the backstroke,
CC

You have the teeth pointing towards the handle in one of these?



First I heard of that....do tell more.....

[CrewCab]

You have the teeth pointing towards the handle in one of these?

Yes, Always    

If I was sawing wood then it would be the opposite, in fairness a hacksaw can cut in either direction but I was taught with metal, to cut on the "Pull" and that's always stuck 

CC

[John Hill]

OK, I am going the change the blade around in mine as I find hacksawing very frustrating due to wandering off line, perhaps pulling to cut will be better.

[Darren]

Try one of these John, you'll find sawing much less taxing....

[Darren]

Which reminds me.....I need to let this go....if you are interested PM me or it's off to Ebay tomorrow...

John, sorry but it won't swim too well.....

[John Hill]

Thanks Darren but if I need to do any heavy cutting I will turn to this old stalwart...

[Darren]

Well that's different John,

I think we deserve an explanation......

[bogstandard]

Hacksaw's, be they manual or mechanical always cut on the backstroke,

That was a standard apprentice gotcha, put the blade in the wrong way around, they would spend ages trying to cut thru a bit of bar.

As far as I know, a hand hacksaw cuts on the forwards stroke, only the Japanese wood saws cut on the backwards, and CC of course.

Bogs

[John Hill]

Well that's different John,

I think we deserve an explanation......

It is a 2HP chop saw with a HSS blade of about 10" diameter, 32 tpi (I think).  It is very heavily geared down in fact the blade is maybe too slow turning at only about 50RPM.

I got given it because it had a 3 phase motor and a broken blade but I knew where there was a blade that only needed sharpening and the single phase motor on it now came from an industrial size floor polisher.

It cuts much faster than a power hacksaw and makes a perfect finish exactly square, or at an angle if the vise is set over.

[sbwhart]

OK, I am going the change the blade around in mine as I find hacksawing very frustrating due to wandering off line, perhaps pulling to cut will be better.

Hi John

I have set the blades so they cut going forward, just the way I was taught, learnt to haxsaw when an apprentice, part of the kit of tools we made in the first year training shop was a set of three leveling jacks there were made from old 3" dia line shafting, if you were caught messing about the punishment was cutting jack blanks out of the shafting, boys being boys we soon turned the punishment into a competition: how quick, least number of blades etc, we soon learnt to haxsaw.
 


Any way this is my recipe:-

Get the tension in the blade correct not too much not too little:-
Don't force it let the blade do the work:-
Put a little bit of oil or WD40 on the blade:-
Use good quality High Speed Steel Blades Cost a bit but they out last cheepies 10 to 1:-
Use the correct blade for the job you can get them with different teath per inch the thinner the part the more teath per inch you need:-
And to help keep the cut straight use the vice jaws as a guide or for bigger bits clamp a bit of tool steel up against the job.

Using jaw as guide blade set at 90 deg in frame



Or this way



This is the result only a little bit left to mill away



This is my collection of saw



The ally saw has the blade set at 90 deg, the yellow blade has 24 TPi used for thin plate The small job is a junior my Dad made about 50 years ago, its made in one pice bent round to shape:-

I love old home made tools I think they say so much about the maker.

I hope you keep your hands clear of that circular chop saw it looks a nasty beast an accident waiting to happen

Have fun

Stew

[John Hill]

As far as I know, a hand hacksaw cuts on the forwards stroke, only the Japanese wood saws cut on the backwards, and CC of course.

Bogs

John, I once had the chance to examine a carpenter's tool box and contents in Kabul and his saws that he had for fine work cut on the back stroke.

[Darren]

Thanks for that Stew, cutting against the vice jaws, I'd have assumed that would damage them in time. But happy to follow your lead and give it a go....

John, that was my thoughts, one slip and......... Or a tooth/chunk whatever, But I suppose 50rpm is much safer than 5,000 or so from a fiber cutoff saw....

[John Hill]

Stew, the chop saw has tremendous torque and would easily draw in anything or anyone who got in the way.  I do not use it much but for some jobs there is just no substitute.  It does have a sort of safety built in that it needs one hand on the handle to pull the saw down and the natural place to stand to do that is well away from the blade.  Some sort of blade guard is on the to-do list and now I have a lathe I might be able to make a mounting collar for such a thing.

I thought I was the only one with hacksaw marks on their vice jaws? Sometimes I get to remember to use the two pieces of angle iron I once cut for that very purpose.

 I have changed my mind and will not even by trying with the blades reversed!

[CrewCab]

only the Japanese wood saws cut on the backwards, and CC of course.

 Edited as CC is obviously suffering the early stages of dementia

Back to Darren's Hacksaw methinks 

CC

[bogstandard]

Methinks you have got your glasses on back to front Dave, he is saying you cut on the forwards stroke, as his diagram clearly shows.

John

[CrewCab]

Methinks you have got your glasses on back to front Dave, he is saying you cut on the forwards stroke, as his diagram clearly shows

Your quite right John, I think Hospital food us having a strange effect on me 

CC 

[dsquire]

Hi Gang 

You had me a bit worried for a while there. Dad taught me to cut on the push stroke with a wood handsaw and with a metal hacksaw. I never knew him to steer me wrong. I'm not sure that I would be able to operate a hacksaw if it was cutting on the pull stroke.

Cheers 

Don

 

[Darren]

I've been invited back to the Railway this weekend..... to have another chat with the workshop guy......

nothing to loose as they say......