Author Topic: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!  (Read 14831 times)

Offline raynerd

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Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« on: August 04, 2009, 04:21:35 AM »
Hi Guys

I purchased this some time ago from fleabay with the intention of using the boiler but after posting on here and reading the replies I have decided to sit it on the top shelf for now. So I have wasted my money on the intended use of the boiler therefore I may as well restore the little wobbler and get something out of it.



And then after I removed the copper intake pipe and unscrewed it from the rotten wood base this is what it looked like:



This is going to be more of a polishing & blinging exercise as with some light force the engine is free to turn. The frame is slightly out of line and is causing the friction and of course there is no flywheel - I`m confident with a little time and drop oil, this will be running fine .... so straight onto dismantling



I have found that the piston is not fitting correctly onto the piston rod and will need re-threading. Obviously I have cut off the brass pipe steam intake so I will need to make a nice intake. Also there is no flywheel so I will need to make a new one and some how attach it to the crank shaft.

Lots of machine marks in the piston block as well as it being badly tarnished so it took me a good hour because of its shape but now it is gleaming! Before and after:



And finally a picture of the main frame:



So now I could do with some help and advice. Obviously I could polish this all up and put it back together again "as is" but that wouldn`t be any fun at all. Anyone got any initial suggestions as to how I could modify or bling this up a little bit or otherwise I`m going to have no machining to do and we can`t have that on madMODDERS!!

I really don`t have any ideas yet for the frame but I was initially thinking about profiling the crank to a balanced shape. I know this isn`t exactly the height of engine building and restoration like some of you post on here but already has been a great project for me to get my teeth into!

Any ideas or advice more than welcome!!

Cheers
Chris
 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 04:24:07 AM by craynerd »

Offline Darren

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 07:40:33 AM »
You've just rubbed away 100yrs of Patina......

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Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 09:22:00 AM »
I`m not one for patina! ... you? I hope not because the same 100 years is about to be rubbed off the frame later this evening :) :D 

And besides, if it was a nice finish then fair play but the machine marks needed to come out. Brass only takes a few years to reach maximum patina and I believe it is quite easy to both speed up the process and even fake it! 

However, none of the latter is relevents as I want mine shiney!!!!

Chris
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 09:29:36 AM by craynerd »

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 04:34:49 PM »
Chris

I cant see any steam ports  :scratch:

Why the four screws on the top of the cylinder  :scratch:

Puzzled

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 04:46:43 PM »
I imagine the cylinder is bored through and capped off with a plate?

Dunno about the steam ports though?.. :scratch:
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 05:32:19 PM »
Steam ports, pivot pin is hollow? :scratch:
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Offline rleete

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 06:07:38 PM »
Ports are there, hard to see but visible in the disassembled pic.  Last pic is of the back of the base.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2009, 03:24:20 AM »
Ports are there, hard to see but visible in the disassembled pic.  Last pic is of the back of the base.

Yep......

Found `em now!  ::)

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 03:36:43 AM »
Hi Guys

Yes, ports are on the other side of the frame than from the angle pictured above - you can just make them out on the disassembled pic. The cylinder had been bored right the way through and then capped, the four screws are holding the end cap on. Hope that helps...

Anyone any comments regarding the patina that Darren seemed rather concerned that I had recklessy removed!

Also anyone any ideas how I could mod or develop this little engine further? - seems a bit too simple just cleaning and putting it all back together and I would like to do some "work" on it. Bling it up, convert to twin cylinder...ideas ...?

Chris

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2009, 04:34:50 AM »
For a start you could replace those horable slotted screws with studs a acorn nuts.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2009, 05:24:33 AM »
Now it has had all the originality destroyed, removing all hope of it ever being used as an example of home workmanship, whether bad or good.
Someone spent time and effort making it, maybe without or very limited machine tool use, and was most probably their pride and joy when finished. Things like that should just be preserved as is, not hacked about.
 
Throw it in the recycle bin and hope some day it can be used for it's metal content.

The engine itself just isn't worth spending any time and effort on, you could knock up a brand new one like it in a few hours, saving yourself most probably loads of time and resources.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2009, 05:52:54 AM »
Quote
Now it has had all the originality destroyed, removing all hope of it ever being used as an example of home workmanship, whether bad or good.
Someone spent time and effort making it, maybe without or very limited machine tool use, and was most probably their pride and joy when finished. Things like that should just be preserved as is, not hacked about.
 
Throw it in the recycle bin and hope some day it can be used for it's metal content.
 


:lol: :lol:

Well clearly the seller thought a lot of it and so did the other non-existant bidders letting me win it for a meer starting price of about about £5!! I certainly wouldn`t be using it as an example of home workmanship, like you say this wobbler could knocked up in a few hours.

And I`m sure who-ever made it would love to see someone getting some enjoyment out of polishing it up and restoring it back to a runner rather than "sitting in the garage" seizing as it was described in the advert.  

Quote
The engine itself just isn't worth spending any time and effort on, you could knock up a brand new one like it in a few hours, saving yourself most probably loads of time and resources.

really???  :lol: to you may be!

I shall refrain from saying a closing comment....


Stew - thanks, nice idea!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 05:56:52 AM by craynerd »

Offline Darren

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2009, 05:58:46 AM »
I have to agree, Sorry....

It's now lost all its interest, to me anyway.
It would have been such a simple matter to have knocked up a copy up to play with and I suspect would have brought more satisfaction to you as well.

Chris, that's just how I feel.....you have the capabilities to make as many as you want. But then I'm soft on history and vintage workmanship.

But it's yours, you paid for it and can do as you wish I suppose..... :med:
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2009, 07:43:52 AM »

But it's yours, you paid for it and can do as you wish I suppose..... :med:

This is very true...but I still like to hear and respect others ideas and general etiquate within the hobby!

I think I could totally appreciate what you are saying if this was a more complex engine but the fact that it is a simple wobbler - even if I had got it running and left it with all its imperfections, in the state it was in I certainly wouldn`t have wanted to put it in my little collection. As it is, when it is all shiney, it is going to fit right in.

I guess that is just how I feel ....
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 08:20:42 AM by craynerd »

bogstandard

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2009, 10:27:01 AM »
I think you will find, amongst the older generation, we tend to look at things completely different to the modern generation.

We look at things because of their interest and historical value rather than their worth.

With regards to restoration, your engine basically was worth nothing and wasn't worth getting back into a running condition, but as I said before, it was a very good example of naive workmanship that does not happen much nowadays, so in my eyes should have been left as it was, completely untouched.
But on the other hand, if the engine was a good example of engineering prowess or interest, and was is a dilapidated condition, then yes, bring it back to life so all can appreciate it as it should have been.
You will find that Steve (Cedge) restores old engines of the type I described, and he does a wonderful job of bringing them back to life in their full glory, as they should have been. Just good engineering practices to replace missing or damaged parts, and a good spruce up. Nothing over the top.

I was involved in a similar incident a while back on another forum, where I went a little too far over items that had historical interest and values, and don't want to go thru the same thing again on here if I can help it.

I have many items in my possession from bygone eras, some worth rather large amounts of cash, some worth scrap value only. I have attempted to pass some of them onto museums, but they could not accept them as gifts, and I wasn't willing to take money for them, but other stuff that I have offered, have been refused because there are just too many about, but I just can't bring myself to destroy or discard them because not only to me, but others who have seen them, they are marvels of a time from the past.

Offline rleete

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2009, 11:37:47 AM »
I have to disagree.  It was ugly and worthless as is.  Clean it up, make it shine, and get it running again.  Just because it's old (and the age of this is indeterminate anyway), doesn't mean it has to be preserved in such a sorry state.  Better to take the rusting hulk of an old Ford Woody and make a hotrod, than to leave it rotting in a field.

If this was a hand-made with files mill engine from 100+ years ago, I could see your point in keeping it as original.  In this case, all he's doing is making it better.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Darren

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2009, 12:43:51 PM »
This augment goes on over on the Stationary Engine forums, and it can get pretty heated.

Guys, best if you just state your preference and leave it at that. A sort of vote.... :thumbup:
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Offline cedge

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2009, 02:27:05 PM »
Awww  Jeeeeezzz... I'd love to have a lead farthing for every time I've seen this debate crop up. First off, Patina is a word coined by lazy antique dealers in order to keep from cleaning things up. It's dirt... and dirt, the bane of mechanical devices, is a sign of lousy engine husbandry. I tend to leave it only on engines I intend to resell.... especially toy grade engines. That community has its own ideas aboutsuch things.

I've restored a lot of old hand made engines along the way. I've gone from simple cleaning to a total rework, but neither end of the spectrum was done without a bit of careful contemplation. I've got a couple of old machines that still retain all the tool marks the original builder left on them, while my Rectilinear engine was taken down and extensively polished to remove them. The latter was a case of a machinist who at the end of his life was nearly blind and simply couldn't see the flaws anymore. His earlier work was flawless and my efforts were as much to salvage a bit of dignity for him as it was for getting a shiny engine.

Now... my own advice is to ignore all the cat calls about it being a worthless engine, before or after your efforts. No engine is ever worthless if you like it and it suits you. Even a simple engine like this one has it's own charm. I might not have gone to the extent of removing tool marks, but 100 worth years of patina would quickly become huge black stains on  polishing rags. While your choice of directions would probably not have been my own, the engine belongs to you and it has to please your personal tastes.... and only yours. My Cretors engine wore nearly 100 years of grime and "patina" when I received it..... it looked like hell. I have yet to have anyone one tell me I should have left that particular jewel of the collection in the condition I found it.

As for adding bling to the engine.... I'd be hard pressed to do so, lest I destroy the "signature" of the original builder. I try hard to respect the craftsmanship of the guy who first sweat an engine to life. Even simple and primitive efforts have a story to tell. When you add your own changes, that original story fades and often disappears.

Nothing wrong with doing a restoration as long as it's given adequate thought before doing hand.

Steve


Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2009, 05:14:59 PM »
Steve

Thanks for posting on here - your post has been very informative and I really can respect your views and opinions.

This is my first engine restoration of sorts and I`m learning. I totally appreciate every part of your reply and first and foremost, this engine is totally not worthless as some have said and I knew that anyway. Ridiculous that experienced members could even say that. As I said earlier, if it was a more complex engine I would have perhaps left it in a more original state but it isn`t so it has to some degree got to fit my tastes.

Quote "As for adding bling to the engine.... I'd be hard pressed to do so, lest I destroy the "signature" of the original builder. I try hard to respect the craftsmanship of the guy who first sweat an engine to life. Even simple and primitive efforts have a story to tell. When you add your own changes, that original story fades and often disappears."

I actually understand what you are saying here and guess I should respect the authenticity of the piece but at the same extent, a good polish will allow it to fit in with my current collection.

Really enjoyed reading your post and thanks for the input.

Regards
Chris - craynerd

Offline John Hill

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2009, 05:31:34 PM »
Chris, I hope you kept the patina you took off that little engine?  It should be carefully packed and sent off to any of the members here who put such a value on it.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2009, 07:30:55 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion John, I am considering going back out the the bins tomorrow and sweeping it from around the sides. Maybe I`ll get a good price on the for sale section.


Offline cedge

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2009, 08:00:12 PM »
John Hill....  :beer: :clap:

Chris
Having had a rather rudely presumptuous collector take me to the wood shed about my engine restorations, I could feel your pain. I was somewhat less "understanding" with this individual than you've been here, having handed him back his testicles in a public forum for everyone to enjoy. The bare essence of my message was that until he bought my engines, either for me or from me, he had absolutely zero input as to how I treated them.... for good or bad.

I'm pleased that you are to be among those who can at least to look at something and see the original builder's hands. In my own opinion, only then can you make a clear choice as to how the engine needs to be tended to. I've often left behind obvious play time scars, rather than lose even a small bit of the machine's life story, but I've never apologized for putting one in top flight running condition.... which always includes a good cleaning.

Steve

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2009, 01:39:09 AM »
Hi Chaps

Just to add fuel to the fire.

Sometimes restoration can't be avoided, I restored a BERNAC steamer I got of fleabay some Kid had painted it all over with gold paint, that kept the price down so I got it as a bargan.

This is it before



And after I made a new burner for it





I think done right there's nothing wrong with a little retoration

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Baldrocker

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 02:05:33 AM »
craynerd
Leave it as it is and its worthless: but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Shiny and blingy its worthless: but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Beware of the absolute! To thine own self be true.
BR

Offline raynerd

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Re: Restoring an Old Wobbler - bling ideas welcome!
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 02:18:38 PM »
craynerd
Leave it as it is and its worthless: but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Shiny and blingy its worthless: but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Beware of the absolute! To thine own self be true.
BR

v true ....  :med: :med: :med: :med: :med: :med: :med: :med: :med: