Author Topic: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)  (Read 37063 times)

Offline klank

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Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« on: August 06, 2009, 09:30:11 AM »
The project I am working on, is to put together a finished Stuart engine, a nearly finished boiler made to a Tubal Cain design, and some sundry other kit, laid out as a working display (sort of basic "Diaorama").

Some of the photos of two of these items below have been published individually on another site about a year ago, but I hope I am forgiven for re-using them in this context.

Compared to many other beautiful projects on this site, this is admittedly a basic, beginners' project - albeit somewhat lengthy to describe. I do hope it may encourage a few to look at "steam" as a viable alternative to compressed air.

A bit of background :-
Soon after starting "the hobby", my wife gave me for my birthday 2 years ago, a Stuart kit of their simple horizontal engine (10H). She wanted to encourage me in my new workshop, bless her, and I slowly (very slowly) built it on my new lathe over the next 6 months. I made a bit of tooling first to get to "know" my first little lathe - with mixed success until I felt confident enough to start the engine proper.
I had no real problems with the kit contents, or castings and none in building it, apart from getting to know what some of the plan symbols and terms meant. I made a real bosh of the (built up) crankshaft at the first two goes - using Loctite, but eventually got it right the third time (my first essay at Silver soldering). Once I had got the valve timing properly set, it ran beautifully on compressed air at less than 10 p.s.i. I was really really happy that I could do it - my first ever build of any "proper" engineering item.





During the build, I had bought a number of books on building model engines, including Tubal Cain's pair on simple model engines and boilers. After much re-reading of these (his text gives a blow by blow recipe of how to make various boilers from scratch - excellent instruction), I decided it would be a good challenge to make a proper boiler and "steam" the engine.
The last project in his book 2 is to build a simple twin oscillator, mounted atop a sort of "cabinet" housed boiler - he called it "Wenceslas" - after a similar ready to run German model, by Bing, for sale in the 1930's I think? Marketed according to TC as "GROSSEDAMPFMASCHINE"!

The boiler itself is a sort of simple "Babcock" water tube design according to TC, but I was told recently it is properly known as a "Smithey's" (?spelling) boiler.
The main barrel is a small horizontal copper tube of 20swg - approx. 6" by 2" with 18swg end plates.
I flanged these from copper sheet on lathe turned steel flangeing blocks - great to learn a new skill - and quite satisfying to do. Needed to anneal the copper many times and go slowly and carefully with the hammering.
The boiler has a single gun-metal horizontal stay down the centre, screwed and silver soldered into bronze fittings at the centre of each end plate.
One end plate, to become the exposed boiler backhead, was marked out and drilled for a number of bronze bushes, turned up and tapped on the lathe, to accommodate the various fittings - pressure gauge, water gauge glass and clack valve for a boiler feed. With the boiler diameter being so small, the top fitting for the gauge glass had to be built as a small extension over the backhead - looks like the top of a periscope!
Steam take-off is from a copper dome atop the boiler barrel, with a suitably "Victorian" looking brass cap, into which goes the safety valve - made up surprisingly simply to TC's design.
I purchased the gauge glass fittings and clack valve from Reeves - a bit expensive, but the gauge glass lower fitting came with a blow-down valve as well - Reeves had run out of plain stock and gave me that "better" one as a freebie! (A very nice lady on the telephone at Reeves had a sympathetic ear when I said I could not afford the more expensive fitting - unusual and most welcome in today's financial climate!)
The final items necessary were a bronze bush for the filler cap, and two blind bushes for the support mounts of the barrel below the top plate of the "cabinet".
I also made a quick and dirty displacement lubricator, (shown in pic. of all the bits below), but I may well make a new one with a control needle to limit the oil flow - the exhaust steam could get a bit messy with too much oil I think - we shall see later.

Anyway - her is a pic. of all of the bits used to make the boiler.



At the time this photo was taken, I had only made three of the four water tubes, and they were not bent properly. I made a simple tube bending tool from a plan in a back copy of ME and made a fresh set of tubes which looked and fitted a lot better.
I also made a simple jig and bushes to align the gauge glass in the backhead.



Just as an aside here, you will note the glass "build plate" the boiler components are resting on :- this has proved invaluable in setting up all kinds of things. Its just a sheet of scrap plate glass (from a fish tank originally I think) placed on a similar sized sheet of blockboard, with a sheet of graph-paper as the sandwich filling. (I use metric sized graph paper, but imperial would be just as good). I ran a 3B draughting pencil over the thicker graph paper lines to make them stand out more. The whole sandwich is held together by linen gaffa tape around the edge. The surface is to all intents, truly flat, it is easy to clean - glue, paint, epoxy, Cyano etc. all "slice" off with a razor blade. The graph paper helps in alignment/parallelism and setting up items during fabrication. I used to use a rubbery/plastic/so called self-healing cutting mat, but the surface became unuseable very quickly.
Not a new idea but passed on here in case it might be of use to someone else!

It took a while to silver solder it all together. I found the use of rivets, loosely inserted around the end plates to be essential to prevent the ends from moving when soldering them into the barrel.
Here some pics of the finished boiler.





I made some blanking plugs to screw into all of the various bushes, and hydraulic tested the finished boiler. I had set the safety valve for 40 p.s.i. as per TC's design. Using a small hand-pump (an old Stuart one I think from the 1950's - acquired together with a small copper water tank from a friend), T piece and domestic water pressure gauge, filled the boiler to the brim and slowly pumped up the pressure, bit by bit, watching for weeps/leaks. One of the blanking plugs was not good, but some ptfe plumbers' tape did the job. I got it up to 90p.s.i. and it held rock steady for 10 minutes! It was strange to "feel" the boiler material actually moving and changing as pressure went up - I guess it was hardening up the previously annealed state of the copper.

I should have added - at present I do not intend to steam the affair publicly - I am building it for my pleasure. I may eventually take it to an exhibition, but only once it is working properly and safely. Being built to a "proven/tested design" and of small size/working pressure, I don't think there will be any problems, but I shall eventually have the hydraulic test re-done by one of the boiler testers at my local club - but that is a long way away.

On to the boiler cabinet.
The frame was made from brass angle strip to TC's design - I changed a few of the dimensions a bit, but it is basically the same. The boiler is suspended from the top plate, which has to accommodate all of the various top fittings of the boiler (dome/safety valve, filler cap, gauge glass top fitting).
By this time, I was getting fairly adept at scrounging "metal stuff/off-cuts" from local sources, and was very fortunate in getting some highly polished stainless steel sheet off cuts (marked as "heat resistant") from a local steel fabrications' business - they had just finished a huge commercial heating project of some sort, and let me have a free rimmage in their scrap bin. I also blagged some weird brass plated iron pipe which would make a good funnel (gas stack).
Stainless steel sheet is a bu**er to to drill and bore out, I discovered. Fortunately by that time I had got my little mill, which made the job somewhat easier. Even so, it was a difficult job to get the cut-out for the dome and associated steam take-off bored and finished. I destroyed one boring tool in the process by running it too fast and with insufficient suds.
Here is the basic frame and top plate, with cut-outs for the boiler top. The lower plate (drilled for secondary air - to aid the burner) inserted for temporary fitment/sizing.



TC's design originally included a steam control valve taken off the side of the steam dome. I have dispensed with this, and blanked it off on one side. I shall make a separate steam globe valve to be fitted further down the line.

Here is a trial fit of the boiler with safety valve and filler cap to the frame.



That is really as far as I had got up until earlier this year.

I got sidetracked a bit with building a Chinese Stirling engine, (posted separately), but thanks to all those kind souls who encouraged me to get it going it does finally work. I need to take a video of it running, but am not having much success with the digi camera here.

Back to this project:-
My next problem was to decide what form of firing the boiler would be best.
TC's original design was to use solid fuel tablets (Meta) in a tray.
He suggested in his book the option of using Meths/wick burners.
After a few experiments I discarded both ideas - messy, smelly, possibly dangerous, and largely uncontrolable.
My wife, bless her again, agreed I could have a propane gas/ceramic burner system as my last Christmas present - so I had talks with Maccsteam (usual disclaimer) about what size of burner etc. and he fabricated a small square burner with a propane tank, pipework and fittings - all safety certificated. The good bloke at Maccsteam felt the rate of water evaporation with even this small burner would be more than sufficient, given the design and size of the boiler, and to keep the gas turned down very low. He felt a hand pump to replenish the water via the clack valve will be essential during steaming. We shall see!

So this is the point I am at now.

I finished the cabinet plate-work, and after thoroughly de-greasing it all, spray painted it all black - using car engine enamel. I used about 4 coats, rubbing down gently in between. The side plates are "gilded" with three brass portholes, which also allow secondary air into the cabinet.
I am presently lagging the barrel with mineral board lagging - some off cuts from British Rail Engineering - used in lagging diesel engine (railcar) silencers. (Thanks Ian).

Here some pics (sorry about the crude editing - in haste) of the almost finished and lagged cabinet, with funnel/stack. There is an internal baffle plate behind the boiler barrel to help duct the burner gases along the underside of the boiler and up the stack.







I have also made the basic display board/base. Just mdf boarding, edged and covered with Slater's Plasticard, with a timber planked walkway down the centre - to add a bit of texture. The boiler cabinet, water tank frame etc. will be affixed to this by locating pegs let into pre-drilled holes - as per next pics. The plastic mock stonework etc. will be painted/textured later.





Interconnecting pipe runs could be a nightmare, but I have built the baseboard so that it is raised on dwarf walling, hiding a sort of "well" area - pipework can thus go down through suitable holes and run underneath the board and back up to where it is supposed to go. Waste pipes (steam, blow down and engine cylinder drain cocks) will be fed down to a sort of "sump" outlow pipe.
I am not sure yet, but am thinking that the main steam line from the boiler might be routed through the boiler cabinet, using the burner heat as a sort of "steam dryer" and then to the lubricator/engine. Not sure yet.
Similarly, the water feed from the pump could be routed the same way to "pre-heat" it?
I am also toying with fitting an oil separator to the exhaust line to keep things a bit cleaner.
Next to do is make another set of rollers for the pipe bender to accommodate the various sizes of pipe to be used.
I bought, off flea bay, a roll of 5/32 auto brake pipe - copper,nickle iron type - its already pre-annealed and silver solders well - a hell of a lot cheaper than buying small bore copper tubing from the usual sources.
Finally I have been making pipe fittings, olives and so on - pics to follow.
I made a form tool from a piece of old car rear leaf spring (gauge plate) I had blagged from our local garage scrap pile. Following a drawing/article in the Gauge O Guild handbook, found on line it gives a good plan of how to fabricate "globe" valves for steam/water control. The form tool cuts the globe shape in brass hex. Will post that next.

So - up to date now and will carry on a bit with more pics. as things develop.

As I said at the beginning - I am building this for my pleasure - its not all blinged up and not built as an "exhibition work", so please forgive any errors, but I have had fun and satisfaction getting this far - and I hope to finish the challenge of making the whole thing work.

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 12:10:14 PM »
Bravo Peter, very nicely laid out post.  I used the plate glass while building my RC airplanes many years ago....thanks for bringing back those memories.:)
You now have me on the lookout for some boiler material so I can start on one this fall.  I will be looking for your suggested reference material and hopefully learn from you and the reference material what I need to know.

PS: I wish I had your style of writing.

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:58:19 PM »
Hi Peter

Your making a lovely job of that engine, those Tubal Kain books got me going with the hobby, I think he may be the main point of infection for  :proj:.

The main joy of this hobby as you said is that you do it for your own pleasure.

Thanks for the great write up and sharing your project with use look forward to next installment.

Have fun

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 05:42:27 PM »
Bob, Stew - thanks to you both for such kind comments and encouragement.
I will do  some more over the next few days and post the results.
I can actually see bits of my work table now that have not seen day's morning light for many a long month - so I'm moving forward!

Offline Darren

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 06:03:05 PM »


Your making a lovely job of that engine, those Tubal Kain books got me going with the hobby,


Have you seen his vids on UTube?

You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 06:04:40 PM »
Klank,

Thanks for a great write up of a cracking build  :thumbup:

CC

Offline Andy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 06:25:43 PM »
Thanks for that Klank.  :clap: I like the life that steam and boilers bring to an engine.  Have made a couple similar to yours in the past (sadly now sold and no photos), guided by the same Tubal Cain (Tom Walshaw) books. However, a vertical one is planned, but don't hold your breath. I've had the copper tube sat here for about three years already.

I know where you are coming from with the gas firing, but don't you miss the smell of meths? Brings back happy 1960s Mamod memories for me.

From probably the smallest, dampest and most untidy workshop in Bradford, West Yorks, England, if not the world..

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 07:51:19 PM »
Darren, CC, Andy - thankyou all, gentle men for the kind comments.

I am a bit thick here, but what U-tube video do you refer to Darren? I will certainly look it up.

Andy - yup, I rather got too much of the Meths smell when I "experimented" with a triple wick burner before being given my gas system. I did prove it could be an uncontrollable conflagration.
I could not find suitable wicking in our local ironmongers (yes it does use that name even today) so thought to try making "wicks" from porous Thermalite block slugs, set into brass holders, joined by a bottom pipe with a top cut slightly under each burner. I tried it out with a drip feed to the pipe and the smell became overpowering (holes in the pipe too big perhaps). I then noticed my right sleeve was getting very warm (an open meths flame is hard to see in bright light) - then it all got too exciting for words.
The porous plugs, holders, pipe etc. are now useful landfill.

I never had a Mamod in those days of long grey shorts and scabby knees - but I do remember the smell of a Mills engine running on Diesel fuel (getting off topic here) - showing our age - but happy days!


bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 08:01:33 PM »
Just for those that have trouble obtaining suitable wicking material.

If you go into your local DIY outlet and see if they sell those garden spirit lamps that you stick in the ground, they look like a length of bamboo with a glass bottle on the top.

You should be able to buy the spare wicks for those items, and the ones we have here are made of fibre glass 'string'. I have used it for all sorts of meths burners, including my flame licker. It lasts forever, once the glass ends have melted and fused, it just doesn't seem to get any shorter.

Very nice build BTW Klank.

Bogs

Offline Andy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 08:07:03 PM »
I had a look for Tubal Cain videos on YouTube. There are quite a few but they seem to have nothing to do with the Tubal Cain that most of us will know (at least in the UK). This was Tom Walshaw, who died a good while ago.

The guy who has done the videos that I saw sounds like an American and appears to have assumed the name.
From probably the smallest, dampest and most untidy workshop in Bradford, West Yorks, England, if not the world..

Offline Darren

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 08:28:01 PM »


The guy who has done the videos that I saw sounds like an American and appears to have assumed the name.

Ah, well that's be rooted out as a newby then, I didn't know he wasn't american.... :doh:

That sure does seem an odd way to go about things though, taking on someone elses pseudonym... :scratch:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 08:55:27 PM »
Wow Peter... Very nice post. Anxious to see it run.

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Eric
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bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 01:30:55 AM »
Quote
That sure does seem an odd way to go about things though, taking on someone elses pseudonym...


I looked up Tom Walshaw's pseudo, when I first started to read about him, well before internet days.

It is mentioned in a passage from Genesis in the Bible, and is a very apt name. I suggest you have a look yourself.


Bogs

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 02:23:09 AM »
Peter,
Marvellous post. Very well described, & shown.....  :clap:

Looking forward seeing it run successfully.  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 08:24:27 AM »
Thanks David.

To avoid giving the wrong impression - I feel I ought to add to the first posting of this project that none of the ideas for it and those I am considering doing are mine.
A bit like "Japanese" auto engineering - I have taken some of the best ideas that suit my abilities from other disparate sources and cobbled them together.
The overall "display" ideas I gleaned from a couple of old articles in back issues of ME. The ideas for steam drying, feed water pre-heating, boiler/pipe fixtures and so on etc. from books.

There is a lot to be gained from reading not only TC's books (aimed at the beginner) but also three more :- Model Loco Boilers - Martin Evans; and the two by K N Harris - Model boilers and Boiler Making and Model Stationary and Marine Steam Engines.
All of these appear superficially a bit "dated" due to when they were first published (over 30 years ago?) but are really excellent and well worth tracking down. The authors treat you "old Skool" - i.e. that you are intelligent, can read and understand basic scientific principles and have some practical abilities.
In them I discovered a whole host of ideas, sketches and formulae covering virtually everything to do with model steam "stuff". I understand they are still available over here as re-prints- quite cheaply too - I got mine second hand off Amazon.

To add to Bogs worthy comments re - Tubal Cain - look up Genesis Ch. 4 v22 - "Son of Zillah, 'forged all kinds of tools out of Bronze and Iron'.
Some say, the Patron of Engineers!
(the name also crops up in the opening stanza of an old hit record of the '70's? - as a loco driver - "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down")
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 07:10:25 AM by klank »

Offline NickG

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2009, 10:53:45 AM »
That is going to look splendid .. well done!  :clap:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2009, 12:54:04 PM »
To add to Bogs worthy comments re - Tubal Cain - look up Genesis Ch. 4 v22 - "Son of Zillah, 'forged all kinds of tools out of Bronze and Iron'.
Some say, the Patron of Engineers!
(the name also crops up in the opening stanza of an old hit record of the '70's? - as a loco driver - "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down")

All those years later......... He`d gone & changed his name to Virgil!   :lol: :lol:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2009, 08:54:28 AM »
Back to the build.

I spent a long time shuffling the various items around the display board, once the boiler position was fixed.
Trying to think ahead, it is important that  1. everything that needs to be accessible can be reached as easily as possible without affecting anything else - i.e. cylinder drain cocks, pump handle, control valves and 2. The main steam pipe feed is kept as short as possible for thermal loss reasons.
With the layout shown, i think it gives the best compromise. The steam pipe, taken off the dome on the side closest to the chimney will be fitted with a right angle globe control valve, and the output then fed back into the boiler casing - possibly through one of the port-holes, and run through the internal space next to the boiler barrel thus keeping it nice and hot. If I can get it right, the pipe will emerge at the bottom of the cabinet, nearest to the engine cylinder, and enter the lubricator, and thus to the engine valve chest. Access to the drain of the lubricator may be difficult, but I am hoping to mount it on a small stanchion to raise it enough to get at the drain cock.
The cylinder drain cocks will be operated by a hand held "tool" - long thin brass rod with a forked end.
(Sorry about photo quality - not my strong point)



I temporarily fitted the burner/lpg. tank and gauge glass furniture to the backhead (using a steel off cut rod in place of the glass) to check clearances and to see where the blow down pipe will go.

I decided to mount the feed water tank and pump on the other side of the board - I didn't want to have to brush my fingers against anything else (hot or not) when using the pump.
The pump and tank is an old Stuart-Turner item I think from the '50's?
The tank frame is simple brass angle, soft soldered and sprayed with car engine enamel.
I think I'll leave the pump in its original (sick) green enamel. Unfortunately, the unions on this are very large and crude, hence the size of my brass fittings. (The output one is yet to be finished).





Next to the pump is a "trial" length of pipe and olive hidden by the screw fitting, bent using a simple pipe bender I built to a beginner's design by Stan Bray found in an old issue of ME. I used this first to bend the water tubes in the boiler build.



I have "cut" a set of (aluminium) rollers to the various sizes of brass pipe to be employed. I made simple "form tools" from stainless steel rod which I happened to have of the same diameter as the pipe (I don't have any stocks of Silver steel at present!). Rather like making D bits, but with a radius ground on the tip to match the radius of each diameter of pipe.

A small "production run" of pipe olives was made.

To encourage any who read this and don't know how to do it - here goes.
This method was given to me by someone else and has also been referred to elsewhere on this site - its not original, but is really easy and works!
For the (water) pipe shown - which is a length of 3/16" (4.76mm) brake line tubing - I used 1/4" brass rod in the three jaw, end faced, centre drilled with my smallest bit, and deeply drilled to about 11/2" with a 3/16" bit in the tailstock drill chuck - keeping the speed fairly high. Swap the drill bit for a length of 1/8" steel rod and introduce it into the bore. I parted off the olives at about 3/16" lengths using a carbide tipped tool set at a suitable angle to the brass so as to give a nice cone at the "cut" and the olives pop off onto the steel rod quicker than shelling peas.
Change the stock dimensions to suit other diameters of piping.
In the past, I have silver soldered the olives onto the ends of the prepared/cleaned/fluxed pipe (after adding the screw fitting - yes?) using a little collar of fine Silver solder wire around the inboard joint. Heat the pipe gently but NOT the olive itself and as the heat is drawn up to the olive, all should melt/flow. With my luck, I often knock the joint in passing and dislodge the  solder wire - all very fiddly. I am now using Silver solder paste - comes in a small hypodermic syringe. The goo is pre-fluxed. Makes the process much quicker and easier.
Don't forget to "paint" a barrier ring around the copper tube behind the olive/joint with wax pencil or (I use) typo correction fluid from a pen. This stops the solder from spreading where you don't want it.
I will try and post a couple of pics of this process if it helps anyone? (Don't want to overload this thread with too many things which are possibly too basic for most.)

The water valve cock on the output of the tank looks a bit naff to say the least - but it is my very first effort - done from a recipe in a back issue of ME. There are many many recipes available from that source or published on the net.
I recently came across the Gauge O Guild handbook, published on the web which gives an excellent instruction on making Globe control valves and a globe form tool.
Clearly Globe Valves look better, and so I have had some fun trying to make one.
I had blagged a length of old car rear suspension leaf spring from a local garage - gauge plate!!!
I sliced out a length for the tool using my chop saw (Bosch 1mm thin ?carbon fibre? blade - cuts anything virtually).
This embryo tool bit then needs annealing. It was suggested to me by my Yorkshire Rabbi, that the best way of doing this was to hang it in the wife's oven during the cooking of the Sunday roast and let it cool down in the oven afterwards. Not a chance!! The other usual way is to put it in the embers of a fire and leave it to cool therein overnight. Nope - no fires in this house and no bonfires allowed by Local Authority.
In the end, I made a little cubical hearth with 6 of those heat resistant mineral fire bricks, put the tool blank in the bottom, left the lid off and nuked it with my Propane torch for a while - leaving it cherry red for a few minutes. Put the last brick on top and left the whole thing to cool.
Now I do not know if it worked properly, but after it had cooled, I drilled the blank fairly easily and cut it to length and file the ends to a sharp finisgh with no problems. Then harden and temper to straw in the usual way.



And that is the result.
I tried it on a scrap length of brass bar, turning at about 1000 rpm, and it worked like a dream.
I haven't tried it on brass hex yet for the next valve, but will probably "knock the corners off it" first with a standard lathe tool before forming the globe proper.

Will post more later. 

Offline Andy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 11:13:08 AM »
That's looking really good. Are you going to have anything for the engine to drive?

I can confirm that your method of softening hardened steel worked for me too. Lacking a coal fire, I carved out a 'cave' in a soft firebrick (the white sort, cadged from the local crematorium) and did it exactly the same way to soften the frizzen of a flintlock musket that needed re-profiling.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 11:24:40 AM by Andy »
From probably the smallest, dampest and most untidy workshop in Bradford, West Yorks, England, if not the world..

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 11:25:57 AM »
Thanks Andy.

Hmm - what to drive - I have to say I havn't really considered that. I am just hoping to get it all to run leak free first, but you do have a point there.
I cut grooves in the engine flywheel to make it look more prototypical, and add "texture" to an otherwise bland surface, so I suppose a sort of belt drive could be taken off here to a line shaft? But space is a bit limited - must think it over more - unless anyone has a "good idea"?

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2009, 08:00:45 PM »
Peter after seeing the detail on you boat I can hardly wait to see the rest of this.  You always pay so much attention to detail when your building something.  Here you have building a total all in one spot stream system with it's own reservoir.  Good job and please continue on...

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2009, 02:20:06 AM »
Coming along nicely Peter,  :thumbup: you'll have a cracking display when you've finished, well explained to.

Have fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2009, 12:07:15 PM »
Thank you all for the encouragement and kindness.
Not been able to do much these last weeks - got personal problems with me old Dad.

Anyway - done a bit over the last two days - working on a steam control valve and lubricator.
I appreciate this is not, by any means, big stuff, but making little fittings in brass I find very relaxing and satisfying - a change from having-at big lumps of steel in complicated ways.
My first plan was to make a separate steam control valve and displacement lubricator - the latter being adjustable, based on the type used in the Boarderer/Marcher marine engines. However, whilst idly flicking through the pages (yet again) of TC's book on model steam engines (Vol 1), I saw a photo of a combined steam control valve and lubricator - all in one. It is part of his design for "Hercules" - a steam powered crane. It is a nice, elegant looking, compact unit, doesn't seem difficult to make and of course is backed by TC's step by step instruction - useful for  those of us with minimal confidence/experience.
I decided to have a shot at this - materials were (just) available from my little stocks.

Here are the main component parts - I did not take pics. of the machining - its all very straightforward.
The valve spindle itself is stainless steel, all else is brass hex and a bit of brass bar.



The main body should be of brass square stock - but I don't have any, so used hex and turned off the corners a bit at each end to make it look less "linear".
The spindle, gland nut, threaded insert and inlet fitting (facing the camera at the left hand end) need no further word.
The outlet, at the bottom I modified from the design a little, to fit my engine - a simple brass round fitting, silver soldered and let into the body and a short length of copper pipe (with nipple and nut fitted first) soldered into the fitting.
The oiler itself is incredibly simple in operation - in fact it is hard to understand how it works at all!
According to TC, it is originally a design by a really old time engineer who went under the name of "LBSC" - a.k.a. Curly - who published a huge amount of model engineering material from the 1930's up to the 1960's (approx - not sure).
Going off topic - for those who don't know - LBSC stands for the (late) London, Brighton and South Coast Railway (absorbed into the Southern in 1924). He had a love of that grand old company and published plans for model engineers to build one of its locos in the 1930's. One of the first perhaps.
Back on topic :-
Anyway - TC said that this lubricator design has worked for him for over 25 years!
All it is is an oil reservoir, fitted with a close fitting screwed cap (no air hole in the top), and the waisted bottom drilled with a number 70 drill - a tiny pin hole - situate exactly opposite the steam outlet hole from the body. And thats it!
Its not an obvious displacemnt lubricator. The only way I can visualise it working is through the "venturi" effect (like a carburettor bleed hole) of the steam rushing past the hole and drawing a mist of oil out as it goes by.
There is no means of blocking the hole, and thus I don't know if the oil will ooze out when not in use.
I appreciate that steam oil is extremely thick and viscous (is it Rape-Oil?), so maybe it won't drip through such a tiny hole?

Drilling that hole gave cause for thought. It has to penetrate approx 5mm of brass. After much thought and seeking advice, speed of rotation seemed to be the crux of the matter. In the past I have had conspicuous failures and flops when trying to drill holes 1/16" or less and ended up with useless items with broken drill bits embedded in them.
I had made some time ago a small drill adaptor to fit my tailstock, lever operated (sliding chuck) with a good quality pin chuck on the end. Girding up my loins, I put my (only) number 70 drill in this lever/tailstock chuck adaptor with only 2 mm projecting, and cranked up the lathe to its max. - over 2000 rpm on mine (never done that before!) - this speed, noise and some vibration does concentrate the mind!
I just touched the end of the drill bit against the brass bar end (all carefully surface finished and just kissed with my smallest centre drill bit first) and a tiny sliver of brass curled off. Great - I carried on very slowly, wood-peckering the drill in and out/cleaning the swarf off with a little paintbrush and slowly extending the length until it broke through. Very satisfying.





I then silver-soldered everything together - using silver solder paste (as used by hobbyist jewellers). I found using this material in these operations to be a revelation. No bits of silver solder wire to get and keep into position, and no fluxing. Just make sure the joints are clean, and annoint them with the (brownish looking) goo. Add heat from the torch with my smallest nozzle, play the flame gently near the joints and wait for the silver colour to show and run into the joints - easy peasy.
No doubt I may find a dud joint when I steam it, but the silver collars around the joints look o.k.

And here it is mounted (temporarily) on the engine.



I deliberately made the valve spindle/handle "over long" to allow for my hamfisted fingers and to bring the control to an easy point to reach, because the steam inlet - pipe position fixes the whole affair a bit back from the edge of the display board.
I shall run the steam line from the dome off-take, via a globe valve and then back into the boiler cabinet for a turn, down by the hottest part, so as to act as a "steam dryer". In these circumstances, I fancy cylinder lubrication becomes more essential.

As I have said before - this is all "basic work" for experienced engineers, but I do hope it may help a few to have a go at "steaming" something.
My garage/workshop shall now be known as the "Dampf-Haus".
More to follow when I get time to myself.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 12:17:49 PM by klank »

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2009, 02:30:25 AM »
Lots of very good info/ experiences there Peter!  :thumbup:

I`m going to have a look for some of the jeweller`s silver solder......

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2009, 07:03:42 AM »
Hi David
I sourced my paste from CupAlloys :- http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/ (usual disclaimer).
I had checked around for the "best" value deal for silver solder paste, and found their prices very good - I bought a 10cc syringe of the stuff - delivery was very quick too, and the bloke at the end of the 'phone was extremely helpful - giving advice on soldering technique when using this stuff in model engineering applications.

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2009, 07:15:49 AM »
Awh, your write ups are always such a great read Peter.  I will be looking for the silver solder paste locally next week.  It certainly works well for you and your parts came out great.  Can't wait to see this project ready to go.

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2009, 12:24:36 PM »
Thanks Bob,
If you are thinking of taking the plunge to have a go at a boiler - silver solder paste is (obviously) not the right medium for its construction.
Paste is ok for small delicate joints/fittings and having a "quick go with" - using a fine jet on your propane torch.
For major boiler joints, look (also) for silver solder rod (1.5mm/3mm dia) and "wire" - 0.75MM dia.
Over here its branded as "EasyFlo" No.2 - melting point about 610 dgrees C. (There are higher melting point solders available in a range).
With this you will also need bigger torch jets, the appropriate flux (powder or paste), and some type of dilute acid solution for "pickling" the work afterwards (to remove all the flux residue) - citric acid, old diluted battery acid etc. - should be lots of references to this elsewhere.
In most types of silver soldering - you are heating up the metal around the joint to be made so that the solder melts by the heat in the metal and flows into the joint, not playing the flame on the joint directly. More metal to heat (bigger heat sink) = bigger flame. Even on my small boiler, it took quite a big flame for quite a long time to get the boiler barrel/end plate joints up to flying speed if you see what I mean.
All a bit obvious, but hope this helps.
I am sure the MM collective brains/experience here can provide lots more tips on Silver soldering if necessary.

Peter

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
Hi David
I sourced my paste from CupAlloys :- http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/ (usual disclaimer).

Thanks Peter......

They`re just t`other side of town to me!  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2009, 02:52:12 PM »
Noted Peter and thanks. 

bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2009, 02:56:22 PM »
Lads, you have to be very careful when buying silver solder paste, it has a very short shelf life, sometimes as little as 6 months, depending on the grade, and there is no rescue procedure, once the time is up, the whole lot becomes no good.

It is very good if you have a use for it all in the short term, but if you are only going to use a little bit every now and again, it can get very expensive. If you do buy some, check the dates very carefully, and make sure you only buy very fresh stock.

I used to nearly cry, when in industry, when we found our 1000 squid a tub had gone out of date, and it was only good enough to throw in the bin. I even brought some home to try out, and a couple of months out of date and it was useless.

Bogs

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2009, 02:01:12 AM »
Lads, you have to be very careful when buying silver solder paste, it has a very short shelf life, sometimes as little as 6 months, depending on the grade, and there is no rescue procedure, once the time is up, the whole lot becomes no good.

It is very good if you have a use for it all in the short term, but if you are only going to use a little bit every now and again, it can get very expensive. If you do buy some, check the dates very carefully, and make sure you only buy very fresh stock.

I used to nearly cry, when in industry, when we found our 1000 squid a tub had gone out of date, and it was only good enough to throw in the bin. I even brought some home to try out, and a couple of months out of date and it was useless.

Bogs

Thanks John,

Not much good for me then........  ::)

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2009, 06:24:04 AM »
Thanks for the warning Bogs - you got me worried with that timely warning.
As there was no "use-by" date on the goop I bought, I telephoned the manufacturer (Cup Alloys) to find out what the shelf life of it might be. I have bought a small syringe of the stuff, containing 10g of 842 paste, which (I quote!!) "is a mixture of powdered 42% silver, cadmium bearing alloy, with EF flux and held together in suspension by an organic binder." !!! Cost £8. (It looks like brown sticky toffee pudding!)
The syringe has a metal  push-in plug-cap in its nozzle.
I was told by Cup Alloys that provided the plug-cap was kept in the nozzle (to keep the air out of contact with the goo), the syringe contents should last for a long time. They have a demo syringe they take to exhibitions, which has been capped but used at all of them - lasted 18months so far and still going strong. Keep the cap in and you should be ok for at least that time was their advice.
If you have it in a tub though (like your example Bogs), then its lifespan may only be 6 months before it dries out, as air is always in contact with it.
I think my litttle syringe of the stuff should be ok for a while, and at £8 - provided I keep the cap in the end - shouldn't owe me too much when it finally goes off, possibly in a couple of years or so. Despite the cost, I think its still worth having at this small 10g amount (ready fluxed), as it does do really neat small silver solder jobs. A metre of 0.7mm silver solder wire (from them) costs the same, and I'm pretty sure I would use that up in the same time span, and probably waste a bit of it.
I hope this helps.

Peter

« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 06:44:38 AM by klank »

bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2009, 07:08:34 AM »
Peter,

I wasn't trying to put people off at all, but just to be aware that it does have a limited lifespan.

You will find that certain retailers do give a warning about it's limited life.

I fact we didn't throw our tubs in the bin, but had the silver recycled from it by the people who recycled the gold off our scrap circuit boards, so all was not wasted, just about 80% of the cost.

Bogs

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2009, 08:37:55 AM »
Thanks John - you are right about the warning notice (or lack of!!) Certainly on this syringe there was no warning at all - not even "keep the cap on".
Those scrap - cost figures look dreadful - what a waste of resource!

Peter

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2009, 12:53:06 PM »
Can I refer you gentlemen to "This" suggestion

I have a lot of respect for the guy who posted it & it sounds quite feasible but, .............  is there any real advantage over using a small piece of Silver Solder wire  :scratch:

CC

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2009, 01:07:16 PM »
Thank's CC I do remember reading that now but forgot it....like I do most things now-adays..

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2009, 01:19:31 PM »
I forgot it....like I do most things now-adays.. 

Don't worry Bob, we all seem to be wearing that "Tee Shirt" more and more these days as well  :scratch:

CC

bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2009, 01:40:33 PM »
Dave,

I don't think it is a matter of advantage, but what suits the person using it.

If you are experienced in using flux and rod/wire, then no problems other than that of convenience.

But a few people do really suffer when it comes to silver soldering, I don't know why, because most of us don't, but for the few who do, then paste seems to be an ideal solution. I honestly think their major problem is taking advice about old wives tales about flux. Like the chap in your article who says he still uses plain borax, but then refers to Sif Bronze, which is a brazing flux not a silver soldering flux. Basic fluxes still contain borax, but a lot of differing additives nowadays make it a lot more potent and heat resistant.
So when it is mixed into a ready to use paste, it makes sure that the correct quantity and quality of flux in relation to the amount of silver solder is all there for the job to be done.

Paste really comes into it's own for automated processes. I used to service a machine that made around 1,500 perfect tiny silver soldered joints a day, and the two components when joined together only came out to about 12mm (1/2") long. To do that by hand, you would be very lucky to get 20% of that figure, and you would expect a fairly high failure rate as well.

Peter,

The recovery of the silver did give a reasonably good return for a recycled product. When you consider the paste only contained around 10% silver, the rest of the weight being made up of mixer metals and a carrier/flux.


John

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2009, 02:13:08 PM »
Thanks for that John,  :thumbup:

I'd agree that in this day and age there have been advances in everything, including flux, so I'll be ordering some shortly, even for soft soldering, which I do a lot, I use a modern flux and failure is rare.

Cheers all  :dremel:

CC

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2009, 07:27:27 AM »
Phew - I didn't realise silver soldering can be such an interesting and emotive topic!
I wonder, when TC, Stan Bray, Harold Hall, Elmer, and all the others wrote their so instructive books on engineering methods and practices for the beginner/modeller, if this (modern) type of solder paste were then freely and cheaply available to use, it may have become another recognised method of Silver soldering for the model engineer, next to tried and tested  silver rod/wire/flux. As Bogs said -used in the appropriate circumstances?
For small, delicate joints with no real gap filling, I like it. Quick to set the joint up, do not burn my fingers holding thin silver wire too close to red hot items, don't stick the end of it in my flesh when trying to bend the stuff into a little circle to fit round a joint - which always slides sideways when the flame blast gets close, don't get runs or waste too much of it, don't have to flux, and only pay £8 for the stuff - even if it lasts only 2 years in its syringe.

To continue with the project, I have completed the final component fabrication - a simple "Globe" valve (stop-cock) to go on the steam off take from the dome of the boiler. Silver soldering was necessary - see later!
I shall be using 4.7mm copper brake line for the main steam supply pipe (remarkably cheap to buy a coil on flea bay - it comes ready annealed!), so all internal holes are 3mm dia - as large as I can get without looking "over scale" - and trying to minimise internal back pressure in the steam passage from boiler to engine. The valve will be sited next to the dome, control handle sideways/outboard, inlet on the other side/inboard to dome off-take and outlet straight down (at right angles to the main body axis).

The results of my first effort of valve making went on the water tank stop valve - clunky looking plain hex stock body, with a naff control wheel - but its mine and may serve to show a youngster (assuming I get to display this affaire) that not everything you make has to be perfect and shiny when you are learning - fun comes first! (well its my excuse anyway).
A "Globe" valve body does look so much nicer and "fits the scene" well.
This time, I had previously come across a recipe to make a globe form tool (see earlier post and pic on this thread) and a (French I think) design for a simple right angle globe valve with easy to follow dimensions. I altered these a bit to suit the stocks of material I have to hand. The important item was the stainless steel rod for the spindle. All I have at present is some 5/32 rod - which is fine, but the only die I have for that size is a 5/32 X 40 (ME thread) - leaving aside metric variations. Since this is really an "on - off" valve, it shouldn't have such a fine thread - takes more turns to open it. However I have used it since I didn't fancy spending time turning small section stainless rod to a different diameter and then die thread the result.

I have taken too many pics. (probably) but it is my hope this may help any newbies reading this to see how simple the job really is.
My camera work using the "Macro" setting is b****y awful in parts - apologies - I was focusing too low - but hope the results give sufficient info.

The body is 1/2" hex bar. This is used 'cos its easy then to mark and drill the hole for where the soldered fitting will eventually go. The bar was drilled and tapped as appropriate, and the cross hole drilled.



The corners of the hex around te length to be "Globed" were then knocked off using my home made tipped tool - which will take the punishment of an interrupted cut.



I then used my globe form tool made from a bit of Austin A40 rear leaf spring - described earlier - in anger for the first time. I am dead chuffed with the result.
Here, the tool has just been withdrawn after forming the shape on the hex bar.



Then just clean up and chamfer the corners using an HSS form tool.



Then part off to overall length, reverse in the chuck (I had made a threaded brass fixture to hold the internally threaded end in the chuck), turn down and thread the other end, leaving a small hex next to the globe. The externally threaded end was deeply coned with a (Slocumb - lovely word) centre drill, ready to take the nipple when piping up later.



The threaded insert for the spindle was made from brass hex, drilled and internally screw threaded 5/32 X 40, turned and externally threaded to suit the body. The spindle had a 90 degree end machined on it by setting over the top slide to 45 degrees and gently using a very sharp fine tool. 90 degrees should give a fast opening action, albeit compromised somewhat by the "fine" thread - but needs must I suppose!
The shank then die threaded 5/32 X 40.



A gland nut was drilled, internally tapped and parted off from hex.

The side fitting (to be silver soldered in) was similarly made from brass hex, drilled, coned, externally threaded and left with a small thickness of hex to add symetry to the affaire when finished. A short length of brass (4mm dia) was left proud of the hex, as a locating peg in the hole in the body.
Here are the two parts. I had just "kissed" the side of the globe around the hole with an end mill, so as to give a "flat" face for the hex to sit on and more surface area for the solder paste to take to.


 
Here's the paste in its syringe next to the body sitting atop the side fixture.



I then simply anointed the mating surfaces and locating peg with the goo. Since the paste contains only 42% solder, and I am not certain as to its gap filling properties, I used quite a lot of the stuff. It's quick and easy to apply from the syringe, but I used a modellers micro spatula to compress it where it was needed (the mix contains Cadmium - nasty stuff to get in your system - don't get it on your fingers!)



Now if I had been using 0.7mm silver solder wire, the joint would be difficult to get at, fluxing needed, and I would have inevitably had "runs" trying to get into the joint with the wire tip when heating - notwithstanding using Tip-Ex fluid (or some such) as a barrier.
Here's how I set the thing up for just plain heating the paste.



Apply the torch flame around the joint (using a fine nozzle) for about 30 seconds, and job done with a nice silver collar around the inner joint - and absolutely no runs. Neato!! It took about two minutes to do start to finish. (My only caveat may be to see if the joint has properly "taken" when I steam it - but I am optimistic it shouldn't leak).
Here's the result immediately after taking the torch away.



Just a question of quick pickle, scrub down in washing up liquid/suds and gently polishing with a soft emery flexi pad and an ink-rubber disc in my mini drill.
I haven't yet decided on what type of control wheel - so many ideas - quite a few on MM. I don't think, though, I shall be filing a square end to the spindle shank. I'll probably turn it down and thread it.
Just the piping up to do now, and making a few threaded fixtures and coned nipples.
The display board will be painted/textured after a trial steam - when I expect every joint and gland nut and gasket on the engine to leak - such fun to look forward to, but thats what its about.
Be a while before I can give the results but I'll be back when I've fired it up for the first time.
In the meantime - best wishes to all who have taken the trouble to read this waffle and reply - much appreciated.

Peter




Offline rleete

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2009, 07:53:24 AM »
Nice writeup.  Thanks for taking the time and the pics.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2009, 09:11:40 AM »
Thanks rleete, you are most welcome.

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2009, 12:04:24 PM »
Peter,
Very nicely done, and shown......  :clap:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

bogstandard

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2009, 12:40:40 PM »
Klank,

You will find that 5/32" (4mm) and 1/8" (3.2mm) is available for use as brake lines, and is used more over here for steam lines than the 3/16" (4.7mm). The Americans tend to go for large pipework for some reason.

Unless the engine is rather large, say over 1.25" bore, then 5/32" is ideal, then for say 1/2" and below, 1/8" would become the normal piping to use.

It isn't just for show either, it has a lot to do with keeping the steam hot enough, as when you use too large a bore, the steam is expanding into it, and so losing heat and pressure, and then of course, efficiency. Seeing how steam engines are very inefficient anyway, it needs all the help it can get.

Bogs

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2009, 12:57:33 PM »
Thanksfor that Bogs - all new to me, but most useful and filed away - I clearly did not do enough research before doing the piping! As I said, I went for the bigger pipe to try and eliminate back pressure in the bends I shall have to make.
Anyway - I've bought the pipe now and will carry on with it (budget is very tight). I shall be running the steam line around the heated part of the boiler cabinet/burner to try and minimise heat loss and give its contents some form of drying (not really a superheater), so maybe that will help a bit.

Peter

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2009, 01:21:17 PM »
Peter very nice job once again on the write up.  You do a great job of explaining everything very clearly.  I have bookmarked this page for future reference.  You should be writing articles for a magazine....

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2009, 01:52:59 PM »
Thanks Bob - I am not sure how to respond to your very kind remarks without sounding callow.
 
I spent the last 35 years writing reports as an insurance company surveyor - from that experience I have found that there are times when you have to make the thing "interestingly readable" rather than just a load of mind numbingly boring stark facts.
In recent years, I once got ticked off by the underwriters for describing a building as "repellent in its ugliness" - better, I thought, than saying it was a "pile of badly assembled building materials in a random design"!
Prior to this was the time before the "Disclosure of Information" legislation came along. You could then couch the truth in all honesty - like "The policyholder appears to be as crooked as a dog's hind leg. Divest ourselves of this risk urgently". Technically that used to come under the heading of "Moral Hazard"!
Nowadays, this is not allowed.

I would love to write for Mad Magazine.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 03:58:14 PM by klank »

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2009, 02:02:13 AM »
Peter,
Some people have developed a good way with words.  :thumbup:

Others have spent a working lifetime muttering at machinery........  ::)

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2009, 06:08:15 AM »
Ha Ha .
If in doubt, club it to shape, then debur and remove all sharp edges.

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2009, 02:20:05 PM »
On the home stretch.

The piping and associated fittings were made from the copper brake - line and brass hex. Economic circumstances dictated that I had to go with what raw materials I have - even though it might be better to follow Bogs advice on smaller size pipe diameter. Anyway - I thought it might be interesting to see how the boiler steamed and the engine ran by using this larger pipe, with a modest steam dryer (not a superheater) to help improve some possible lost efficiency.
The dryer is simply a question of running the steam outlet from the globe valve back into the boiler cabinet via one of the portholes and directing it three times (in a sort of loop) up and down the length of the hottest part of the interior (between the water tubes) and over the burner and then down and out of the bottom of the cabinet by the burner, and back up to the engine/lubricator on the steam chest.
After some further thought, I felt that using the copper brake line (all I really had in stock) would be a good choice, if, for no other reason, that it is of much thicker gauge than the pipe Bogs suggested - it shouldn't come to much harm when sitting over the burner when lit.
It took an awful lot of continual re-annealing to get the pipe properly bent to where I wanted it - quite thick material!

Here is the dryer sitting amongst the entrails of the boiler and above the burner, inside the cabinet.



The water inlet pipe to the clack valve was coupled up underneath the board - within the "well" formed by raising the base on its outside walls.
The blowdown pipe was bent to shape and fiddled into place, emerging from the front of the board. I found it easier to make up the pipe runs first by using copper wire as a sort of template, and cutting/bending the copper pipe to match.
The engine exhaust was a simple right angle bent length of copper tubing to the front wall of the board.
The drain cocks were coupled to a short length of 1/4" copper pipe (off cuts left over from the water tubes), and brake pipe soldered into those and ducted out through the front wall.
The outlets were angled downward slightly and cut off. A piece of aluminium right angle strip acting as a sort of shield. (The top edge is horizontal, somehow the re-sizing of the photo makes it look "skewed"!) This is only a temporary measure - the exhausts etc. being fired down towards a bucket positioned below the bench for the time being whilst the plant is tried out. I appreciate this is a bit crude, but when materials come to hand, a proper sump/container will be fabricated.



The steam pipes have been lagged with string and wound in PTFE (plumber's) tape.





(I did remove the hanging whisker of tape, stuck to the lower water gauge fitting, near the fire-hole door - I understand that flame and PTFE tape leads to a very nasty acidic vapour! )

And here is an overall view of the complete outfit.



The original Stuart engine was made according to the recipe with a brass piston, in which I had grooved a single piston ring - using wound PTFE tape. This seemed to worke well when I ran it originally on compressed air.
I dis-assembled the cylinder from the trunk guide to properly pack the piston rod gland with graphited yarn and felt that the piston/rod screwed connection was not all it could be (made when I was still very much learning how to use my first lathe) so i decided to make a new piston/rod before re-assembly. I happened to have blagged a length of gun-metal rod of just the right diameter from another source, and decided to make one from this, cut with three oil grooves instead of a PTFE or graphited string piston ring plus a new stainless steel rod.
That done, I re-assembled the engine, re-packed the valve rod gland, re-timed it and ran it in very slowly on the lathe for a while, with plenty of oil.

I was then running out of excuses not to fire her up and see what happened.

The cat's entrails looked good, and the moon was in the seventh house, so I half filled the boiler and water tank, charged the burner tank with lighter gas, filled the lubricator with steam oil, opened the steam cocks, shut the valves and lit up the burner to a very low blue flame with the ceramic starting to glow nicely. Rotating the flywheel a few times showed no sticking in the engine.
The water bobbed up and down in the gauge glass, and then several drips started appearing from a few unions, but nothing daunted I carried on. When the pressure gauge needle started to move off the bottom pin, I opened the globe valve to allow wet steam into the dryer. No signs of leakage around the lubricator union, and so with the safety valve starting to fizz at 25p.s.i. I cracked the engine/lubricator valve open. Immediately I did this, the flywheel jerked round with a violent hissing and spluttering from the drain cock outlets. I rotated the flywheel a few turns and shut the cocks, and she sprang into life. Opening the engine valve further caused the engine to rapidly pick up speed, but the steam pressure seemed to remain constant. Then things got a bit more exciting as leaks rapidly appeared in the valve chest cover plate, the cylinder front cover and the union between the pressure gauge and the syphon, plus several pipe fittings. None of the glands appeared to leak luckily. Watching all these leaks, running the hand pump to maintain boiler water level and reduce the burner flame whilst disregarding my wet trousers became a most interesting period.
Fortunately, by that stage, the burner had consumed most of the gas in the tank and the flame died down without me having to shut it off.
I lifted the safety valve stem to release most of the pressure and then blew the remaining boiler contents down into the bucket.

That was overall a great experience.

I am sure those of you who read this and operate steam, must have had a similar memorable time on your first (semi) successful run. It sure beats the hell out of running on compressed air, and you get the advantage of a luvverly smell (hot oil and steam).

If it is of further interest to anyone, I will try and get a short movie using my little camera of the plant running after I have fixed a few leaks.

Thanks to all who have encouraged and offered advice - I am sure I have made some mistakes here, the overall result is not all that blingy, and certain circumstances have not allowed me to do all I wanted. However, I have enjoyed the build and got the pleasure I really wanted from seeing the little engine run as a first build, under steam from a home made boiler.

For those who maybe think about steam running rather than just compressed air - do give it a go - its messy, but well worth it.

Peter

 


« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 04:02:50 PM by klank »

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2009, 02:25:00 PM »
GO PETER!!!!
I know it had to have felt great to finally get to steam going.  I wish I could have seen your face during all the excitement.  It has been a great build to watch come together and look forward to seeing it running...soon.

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2009, 02:27:23 PM »
Well done Peter

Thats must be a first live steam running:- look forward to the vid

Have fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline arnoldb

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2009, 03:42:52 PM »
Nice job Peter  :)

 :beer:

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2009, 03:57:37 PM »
Bob, Stew, Arnold - thanks guys.

I should have added to the above last paragraph, "However good or bad your honest efforts are, you will always receive great encouragement from The Collective and meet some great guys when you post".

Ian has given me a link to another site (hope my putting it here doesn't break any rules) which gives some really interesting and informative tips on piping steam boilers/oil separators - look at posts 211/212/213 on that thread. Sandy does give some really useful information and advice - worth noting for future boiler builds :- http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4779.210

Peter
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 04:06:26 PM by klank »

Offline chuck foster

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2009, 05:08:18 PM »
wow peter what a great build and write up  :thumbup:  :ddb: :ddb:
now all we need is a video   ::)

chuck  :wave:
hitting and missing all the way :)

skype:  aermotor8

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2009, 02:02:50 AM »
Very nicely done & described Peter!  :clap:

Yet another member with a big smile from ear to there......   :D

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2009, 11:50:46 AM »
Here's a vid. of it running.

I'm not sure if the video should go here or in "Gallery" section - (Mods. - please move it if in wrong place).

I have strung together some clips of a run, after fettling the leaks noticed after the very first run.
Sorry for camera wobble, but trying to take a video with a hand held little pocket camera and operate the plant at the same time all got rather exciting! (Need to multi-task better).



Offline sbwhart

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2009, 01:55:47 PM »
That was cool Peter

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks for showing
 
:beer:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline arnoldb

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2009, 03:15:14 PM »
Loved that Peter  :clap: :clap: :clap:  :)

The engine took of nicely when you gave it the steam  :D

 :beer: Arnold

Offline klank

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2009, 07:01:38 PM »
Stew, Arnold, David D, chuck - thanks for the good wishes.
Only problem now is what to make next?
Been looking at a few (simple) designs in ME by Stan Bray (Latin named stationary engines) - might have the resources to have a go at one of them.
Oh, and a bigger boiler would be nice!

Peter

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2009, 03:28:54 AM »
Stew, Arnold, David D, chuck - thanks for the good wishes.
Only problem now is what to make next?
Been looking at a few (simple) designs in ME by Stan Bray (Latin named stationary engines) - might have the resources to have a go at one of them.
Oh, and a bigger boiler would be nice!

Peter

Onwards and upwards Peter!  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline NickG

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Re: Small "Mill Engine Plant" (Display)
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2009, 05:24:19 AM »
Well done Peter that's brilliant. Love live steam!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)