Author Topic: UK MOT's (Read 25033 times)

Darren · « **on:** September 04, 2009, 01:16:45 PM »

I realise this is very

but someone here may just know the answer...?

I have tried searching the relevant forums but have drawn a blank.

I've been getting my car ready for an MOT over the last few weeks but have one remaining problem.
The speedo doesn't work, has not done so for four years but I've got away with it. But even so it would be great if it could be fixed. So far three garages have failed to sort it out over as many years.

I have been using a nifty little gadget that picks up Satellite signals and displays my true speed, unlike the guesstimate of the original speedo.
So i do know how fast i'm going...

But is it legal, and should it comply with the MOT requirements. Common sense would say yes....but...we don't seem to have much of that these days....

jim · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2009, 01:19:24 PM »

i had an old volvo get through 3 MOT's with non working speedo, he just used to laugh and and say not used it much! with it all being on computor nowadays, i'm not sure

spuddevans · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2009, 01:24:45 PM »

Over here in Northern Ireland we have to go to government run MOT test centers and I can tell you in these places they are super strict on all the aspects of the MOT test. That being said, they never drive the car over 100yards, and never faster than about 2mph and would never notice a nonworking speedo. My friend had a car go through the MOT 4 years in a row with no speedo, never failed ( at least never on the speedo )

I'd say that they will never notice the speedo not working, just so long as it has a speedo you'll be fine.

Tim

CrewCab · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2009, 03:41:49 PM »

It's not on the MOT check list,

except for Class V & VII which I don't think applies to you.

The only thing is the Odometer reading will be the same year after year, and the last clause .........

...... "Please note any defects which in your opinion make the vehicle dangerous to drive" which I believe is up to the discretion of the MOT tester.

CC

Darren · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2009, 03:56:32 PM »

Thanks Dave that settles my mind a little, I assumed a speedo was a safety device and automaticaly considered it to be included.....learn something new every day.

Also might explain how I've "got away" with it so often.

Tim, when the brakes are checked they use a rolling road so effectively it's being driven.

Not too worried about the odometer, who can prove it wasn't sat on the drive all year.

Spen50 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:17:11 PM »

I've questioned a couple of my uniformed friends on this and this was their relative answers:

A. It is illegal to drive a vehicle on a public road without a correctly functioning speedometer.
However, speedometer function is not checked as a part of the M.O.T. test, so you can't fail an M.O.T. for it.

B. Technically yes, as the speedo is required by law (construction and use regulations) . However, it's not usually tested for the MOT as they don't drive the car, but if they did check it a speed reading on a satnav would meet the requirements of the law.

Hope this clarifies things.

CrewCab · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:27:33 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 04, 2009, 03:56:32 PM

who can prove it wasn't sat on the drive all year.

and you live next door to the MOT station

I'm with you Darren, the Sat Nav is more accurate and as Spen50 said above it "would meet the requirements of the law" so I don't see any issue with any regulations personally, I think you can have a good night's sleep mate.

CC

old-biker-uk · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:44:17 PM »

Not a problem with my old bike (1942 750cc Harley), speedo dead but fitted a digital thingy designed for push bikes.
Just have to wind the odometer by the amount shown on the gizmo.

Mark

Darren · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:52:04 PM »

Thanks Guys, esp Spen for taking the trouble to ask a couple of mates on my behalf....

I have seen add-ons use for bikes esp specials, but assumed they were passed over by the tester (bike testers seem to be a friendlier lot as they usually ride themselves)

Just for any others that may find this thread, I'm not using a normal sat-nav to display my speed. I guess it would be ok in the eyes of the law but their speeds readouts are usually so small you can't see it properly. Well not on the ones I've had at any rate.

I'm using a different device that is designed to alert of speed cameras, it's quite handy as it makes quite an annoying noise if you are over the speed limit and seems to be very accurate in detecting different limits. It's display just reads current speed and is quite large and clear.

Darren · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:05:56 PM »

MOT day arrived......and he couldn't give a hoot about the speedo not working. He had to drive it from where I left it up the road a little so spotted it straight away.

Didn't pass though, the front/rear brake balancer isn't working, not something you'd really find without a brake tester....

If at first you don't succeed........£57 quid though......this game is getting dearer init...

raynerd · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2009, 05:27:00 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 07, 2009, 04:05:56 PM

this game is getting dearer init...

Sure is! Just sold my Freelander not an hour ago - now have to car share with my Mrs.
Petrol was killing it for me - 160 squid a month and £67 a month insurance, £120 every 6 months Tax!

Divided he ad · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2009, 11:23:49 AM »

ish ..... But,

There's about to be a T reg Renault laguna 1.9td sport for sale....52,000miles on the clock and 400 miles to a tank (60-65 litre tank) with a slightly heavy foot!.... I'm up and downgrading at the same time!!

Probably buying a 22 year old car (dependant on my ramp inspection tomorrow) so down grading in the years..... But it is a 2wd Sierra Sapphire Cosworth, so a little more power!!

Yer I know.... "Car Gloat!" and I don't even own it yet!!

Fix Or Repair Daily Here we come!!

Back on topic.... Are you sure it's the valve Darren? could always be a collapsing flexi' brake hose? If it's seized then it might be right? They're always seizing!

make sure you copper grease the pivots etc on the new one after the test. Specially with the winter salting on the way!

Glad the rest of the work has paid off though

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2009, 12:51:14 PM »

Brake Load Compensating Valve.....truly seized up solid

Rang Fiat for a new one............£115.78 + VAT + delivery = £145

I could not stop laughing on the phone.....chap said "I take it you don't want it then"

My reply "you must be clairvoyant"......

Now to find a 2nd hand one........I keep thinking, I would be a whole lot better off getting another car for a spares donor. Over just a couple of years it would pay dividends.

rleete · « **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2009, 02:31:50 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 08, 2009, 12:51:14 PM

Brake Load Compensating Valve.....truly seized up solid

I look forward to your post detailing the machining of the new valve!

Darren · « **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:48:48 PM »

I might have a go at de-rusting the old one and seeing if it can be reclaimed. If only out of interest...!!

I've just done a rusted up solid Rioch drill chuck and it now turns quite freely......

CrewCab · « **Reply #15 on:** September 08, 2009, 05:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Divided he ad on September 08, 2009, 11:23:49 AM

it is a 2wd Sierra Sapphire Cosworth,

I'm all ears

CC

Darren · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2009, 05:34:11 PM »

Quote from: Divided he ad on September 08, 2009, 11:23:49 AM

But it is a 2wd Sierra Sapphire Cosworth,

Blimey, that's gonna need a very big bucket........

Divided he ad · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2009, 07:25:44 PM »

If the valve is seized it can usually be helped out with penetrating oil and a bit of working of the arm..... If however the internals are stuck..... It'll be a bit more difficult!

The car.... I'll see and know more tomorrow

Well at least the labour on all the repairs is free

Parts are a little steep though.... Turbo's are £700!!!!

and some bits you just can't get new!

Aww well, it'll be fun

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:34:21 AM »

I'm still struggling getting this MOT done. It keeps failing on the front brakes. Individually the brakes have very good pressure. But together the machine is saying that one side has 60% more pressure than the other which is diabolical.

The thing is the car brakes fine and pulls up in a straight line. At 60% inbalance you would expect it to pull to one side quite badly. But it doesn't. I have had another garage strip clean and bleed the brakes 3 times and still the brake testing machine at the MOT station is saying 60% inbalance.

I lost my cool a little today and told the tester to take it out for a drive to see how bad this pulling to one side really was. He was gone for a while and when he came back stated he couldn't fault the braking, in fact even with hands off the wheel it still pulled up perfectly straight under heavy braking. My sharp reply was "and what more could you ask for"

Back on the machine....60% rears it's head again......he is now doubting his machine....but still no MOT. I said fine, I'll leave it here and you sort it out then and that is where I've left it.....

He's muttering something about the ABS interfering with the results now....

Bloody technology.....

Darren · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2009, 12:57:30 PM »

At last, he's passed it........decided it must be the abs.

That's that horror over for another 12mths.....

CrewCab · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2009, 02:55:58 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 11:34:21 AM

......he is now doubting his machine.... Bloody technology.....

Yup, take "experience" out of the equation and we are back to the horse designed by a committee

Glad you got it sorted eventually.

CC

John Hill · « **Reply #21 on:** September 22, 2009, 03:01:33 PM »

Hmmmmm..... maybe it is the ABS that makes it pull up straight.

I guess the brake tester machine measures through the tyres, not the hydraulic pressure directly? There are a whole bunch of things that cause brake imbalance..

Darren · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2009, 03:01:56 PM »

Thanks, the bit that bothers me is the spending of £200 to get back where I started changing bit's that didn't need changing in the first place...

Darren · « **Reply #23 on:** September 22, 2009, 03:07:10 PM »

Quote from: John Hill on September 22, 2009, 03:01:33 PM

Hmmmmm..... maybe it is the ABS that makes it pull up straight.

Doubtful otherwise my whole braking would have to be 60% down. And it has great brakes. Also you can tell when the ABS comes into play and it's not doing that.

The brake tester is a pair of driven rollers that you brake on. The measurements are then shown on a computer.

dsquire · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2009, 04:32:43 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 03:07:10 PM

Quote from: John Hill on September 22, 2009, 03:01:33 PM
Hmmmmm..... maybe it is the ABS that makes it pull up straight.

Doubtful otherwise my whole braking would have to be 60% down. And it has great brakes. Also you can tell when the ABS comes into play and it's not doing that.

The brake tester is a pair of driven rollers that you brake on. The measurements are then shown on a computer.

Darren

Are all 4 wheels on driven rollers at the same time and is each roller independly powered? Is the imbalance a left to right issue or a front to back issue?

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:05:31 PM »

Hi Don, just two wheels at a time, front or rear. Imbalance is left/right front only as the back seems to be fine. There is no ABS on the back.

I need to get to the bottom of this in case it is a problem that leads to a greater failure.

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:15:15 PM »

Front to back imbalance isn't dangerous but left to right can be.

dsquire · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:22:28 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 05:05:31 PM

Hi Don, just two wheels at a time, front or rear. Imbalance is left/right front only as the back seems to be fine. There is no ABS on the back.

I need to get to the bottom of this in case it is a problem that leads to a greater failure.

Darren

Hang in there. I am typing up a reply and will post it in a few minutes.

Don

Darren · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:25:51 PM »

There should be a front to back imbalance, but not left to right.

The machine says 60% imbalance which should be not only hard to control on the road but downright dangerous.

Thing is it doesn't show up on the road at all. brakes really nicely. Even the tester was surprised when he took it out for a spin, he was expecting exactly what the machine told him. The spin which I insisted on was the only thing that persuaded him to let the car pass the test.

Where do I go from here? What am I supposed to believe?

I put two new front tires on for the MOT, both were well worn, but evenly........should that be any indication...I doubt it.

dsquire · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:36:24 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 05:25:51 PM

There should be a front to back imbalance, but not left to right.

The machine says 60% imbalance which should be not only hard to control on the road but downright dangerous.

Thing is it doesn't show up on the road at all. brakes really nicely. Even the tester was surprised when he took it out for a spin, he was expecting exactly what the machine told him. The spin which I insisted on was the only thing that persuaded him to let the car pass the test.

Where do I go from here? What am I supposed to believe?

I put two new front tires on for the MOT, both were well worn, but evenly........should that be any indication...I doubt it.

Darren.

Just talked to my son about your situation.

You may have a flex line that is starting to come apart from the inside. When you step on the brake pedal a piece of rubber that is deteriorating flexes off the inside wall and tries to block off the hose causing a pressure build up.

Another possibility is with disc brakes sometimes as the calipers get old they can stick and require extra pressure to expand them.

I am not sure what parts you replaced but I seem to remember that you had to do some work on the front end to get it ready for your MOT check.

I'll keep thinking on this end and we will get it figured out yet.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #30 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:41:02 PM »

Thanks Don really appreciate the help. The hose is new and both the callipers have been stripped down fully twice. Everything is free as it should be.

I wonder if I took the fuse out for the ABS if the problem would still be there when on the machine? Is there a fuse, there must be?

dsquire · « **Reply #31 on:** September 22, 2009, 06:08:50 PM »

Darren

Were both hoses brand new?

Here is what happens when you put the brakes on. You have to become the brake fluid and try to make your way to the wheel cylinder so you can do your job and stop the wheel. This is how I try and think it through.

When you step on the prake pedal you push brake fluid out of the master cylinder. Some goes to the front and some to the rear. What goes to the front goes into a "T" so that it can split up for the left and right front wheel. It now goes to each wheel where it has to pass through the flex hose then into the wheel cylinder or caliper.

I know it would be a pain in the butt to do but if you were to disconect the brake caliper and put a pressure guage on the end of the flexible brake line and put an equal pressure on the brake pedal while you tested both right and left sides. This would at least eliminate your hoses and brake lines as being suspect.

If you take the vehicle for a short drive in the country without using the brakes very much. Stop and pullover and put your hand on each wheel. Is one warmer than the rest? If it is that may be where the problem is.

I had a car one time that had that problem. Get to work after a 15 minute drive in the country and one wheel was hot. thought is was a bearing. Nope. It was the flex hose holding slight pressure on the brake.

That all I can think of for now.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #32 on:** September 22, 2009, 06:32:36 PM »

New hose on the low side only...

Circuit is a tad more complicated,
master cylinder-abs splitter-wheels

Great thinking about the disk temps, I'll have a quick drive and test that tomorrow.

Now that I have a MOT I can drive it. Driving without one in the uk is now a serious offence and as the MOT results are now computerised you get caught pretty quickly from number plate recognition devices fitted in police cars.

dsquire · « **Reply #33 on:** September 22, 2009, 06:41:49 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 06:32:36 PM

New hose on the low side only...

Circuit is a tad more complicated,
master cylinder-abs splitter-wheels

Great thinking about the disk temps, I'll have a quick drive and test that tomorrow.

Now that I have a MOT I can drive it. Driving without one in the uk is now a serious offence and as the MOT results are now computerised you get caught pretty quickly from number plate recognition devices fitted in police cars.

"
"New hose on the low side only..." --Is this the side that has the low braking pressure?

Don

Darren · « **Reply #34 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:03:19 PM »

Yes, it was changed but made no difference to the results.

dsquire · « **Reply #35 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 22, 2009, 07:03:19 PM

Yes, it was changed but made no difference to the results.

I am running out of thing to look at. This is what happens with a bad flexible hose.

When pressure is put on it restricts to movement of the brake fluid. The more pressure you put on the more it restricts. After a period of time the pressure will slowly bleed thru. It is acting like a one way restrictor valve. It is the reverse of the problem that I had with my car that caused the brakes to stay on and drag causing heating of the rotor and wheel.

I will try and talk to my son again and see if there is any way that the abs system could be causing any of this.

Cheers

Don

rleete · « **Reply #36 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:36:24 PM »

With the wife's Buick, I could not properly bleed the brakes because of the ABS. Seems you need some electronic doohicky (technical term) to hold the system open while you bleed. Costs a lot more than having it done at the garage.

Air in the line will give lower pressure reading on one side.

dsquire · « **Reply #37 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:09:13 PM »

Darren

Talked to my son again about the abs system and he dosen't think that is the problem as you would know when that comes on.

Lets walk thru this again.

Low brake pressure to one front wheel. Why?

Restriction in brake line? where? In steel brake line? Did it get pinched when you were making repairs? It could be pinched off enough to allow a bit of brake fluid through to apply the brakes and bleed the brakes but not as much as the other side causing an imbalance, therefore low braking pressure.

In flexible brake line? Same symptoms as steel line above.

Are calipers operating properly? Does piston expand and retract easily? Do calipers slide freely on mounting bolts? Have calipers been rebuilt? Have calipers been replaced? Has both sides been replaced or rebuilt or just one side?

My son says that when doing major brake work he would always install new or factory rebuilt calipers. If one flexible hose needed replacing, replace them both. Be sure the calipers are free on their mounting so they can work the way they were designed to.

If I think of anything else Darren I'll put up another post.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #38 on:** September 23, 2009, 05:03:54 AM »

I think we've pretty much covered everything that has been tried.....

One question, in a hydraulic system if air is present in one calliper or line wouldn't it effect both brakes?

dsquire · « **Reply #39 on:** September 23, 2009, 05:18:47 AM »

Quote from: Darren on September 23, 2009, 05:03:54 AM

I think we've pretty much covered everything that has been tried.....

One question, in a hydraulic system if air is present in one calliper or line wouldn't it effect both brakes?

Morning Darren. For Me it's just about bed time but I keep weird hours, I'm a bit of a night hawk.

Now to the question. I don't think that it would Darren because air compresses differently than brake fluid.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #40 on:** September 23, 2009, 05:21:34 AM »

Morning Don, now get yourself off to bed......what is it there 5.30am?

Bernd · « **Reply #41 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:18:31 AM »

Have been following this thread for a while now.

After reading Don's questions I came up with a few more. Does the car have front wheel drive or rear wheel drive? And is it an automatic shift or standard shift?

I'm wondering, if it is front wheel drive, if the drivetrain is having an effect on the test? I'd also question the set up on the machine.

Regards,
Bernd

Darren · « **Reply #42 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:23:40 AM »

Hi Bernd,

Front wheel drive manual shift....auto's are quite scarce here unlike the US. The engine is not powering the brake tester, the brake tester turns the wheels and the brakes are applied to stop the testing machine's rollers.

I think I need to take the car to another test station to verify if the car has actually got a problem and then take it from there. I'll try to find one with a different machine though.

CrewCab · « **Reply #43 on:** September 23, 2009, 01:15:58 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 23, 2009, 08:23:40 AM

I think I need to take the car to another test station to verify if the car has actually got a problem and then take it from there. I'll try to find one with a different machine though.

Agreed

from all you've done and has been suggested / dispelled the next issue has to be check the test equipment, I'm not saying it will be wrong but you need to know for sure or there is no apparent way forward.

As for the question of air in the system etc, yes air will compress at a lower pressure, hence it gets better with pumping, however the pressure in the system has to be equal at all points afaik that's a simple law of physics.

hth

CC

andyf · « **Reply #44 on:** September 23, 2009, 04:46:51 PM »

Bit of a long shot, and I'm not sure

if it would make any difference, or whether any difference it did make would be only slight, but are the tyres the same brand, with the same wear and at the same pressure?

Andy

Darren · « **Reply #45 on:** September 23, 2009, 04:53:19 PM »

Both tires brand new for the MOT.....

I realise I keep knocking all the suggestions flat having already covered them. But please keep them coming as someone might hit the nail as it were....

Bernd · « **Reply #46 on:** September 23, 2009, 05:46:01 PM »

Have to agree with CC. Time to check the test equipment.

Bernd

CrewCab · « **Reply #47 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:41:31 PM »

Just a random thought Darren, did the same rollers give equal pressure on the rear brakes

CC

Darren · « **Reply #48 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:46:35 PM »

Quote from: CrewCab on September 23, 2009, 06:41:31 PM

Just a random thought Darren, did the same rollers give equal pressure on the rear brakes

CC

Yes, but there is no ABS on the rear of this car.

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #49 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:49:32 PM »

I'd have thought the chances of getting the same imbalance on the front and the back would be remote enough to warrant blaming the test equipment.

CrewCab · « **Reply #50 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:50:50 PM »

Mmmmmmm

............. can you pull the ABS fuse and try it

<edited to add> or have we already been down that road

CC

Darren · « **Reply #51 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:00:04 PM »

Quote from: CrewCab on September 23, 2009, 06:50:50 PM

Mmmmmmm ............. can you pull the ABS fuse and try it

CC

if only I knew where is was? It's a good point though.......I'll look into it.

It's a bit of a pain as the tester was getting tired of me. I went back four times in all after trying different things. I didn't allow the testing station to do any work so he wasn't getting paid for anything with each test which took up his time. I don't agree with testing stations finding faults just to get work in. I guess he got fed up in the end and gave me a pass.
But we have to come back to the same conclusion that a 60% imbalance on the front brakes would be dangerous whilst at the same time this car brakes very nicely and safely on the road.
When the wheels are tested individually they both have the same pressure giving very good results. When tested together one is 60% down on pressure. It just doesn't make any sense to me or the tester?

I'm going to try to find another testing station and see what happens on another machine. At this moment in time I think that would be a wise move.

dsquire · « **Reply #52 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:25:24 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 23, 2009, 07:00:04 PM

if only I knew where is was? It's a good point though.......I'll look into it.

It's a bit of a pain as the tester was getting tired of me. I went back four times in all after trying different things. I didn't allow the testing station to do any work so he wasn't getting paid for anything with each test which took up his time. I don't agree with testing stations finding faults just to get work in. I guess he got fed up in the end and gave me a pass.
But we have to come back to the same conclusion that a 60% imbalance on the front brakes would be dangerous whilst at the same time this car brakes very nicely and safely on the road.
When the wheels are tested individually they both have the same pressure giving very good results. When tested together one is 60% down on pressure. It just doesn't make any sense to me or the tester?

I'm going to try to find another testing station and see what happens on another machine. At this moment in time I think that would be a wise move.

Darren

Having just read this post about the individual testing of the wheels. Do you mean both front wheels together gives 60% imbalance and then left front wheel seperate is OK and right front wheel seperate is OK. If this is the case then I think it is a fault in the test machine and you would be well to have it tested at another test station.

If I remember correctly this is a 4 wheel drive? When doing the test is the veichle in neutral with the motor idleing?

I know these might seem like a lot of dumb questions sometimes but it might just cause someone to spit out a word that you can take to the bank.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #53 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:35:03 PM »

Evening Don, You understand the situation perfectly, that's the strange thing. Tested individually each wheel has very good and almost identical pressure, within 2psi of 180 or so.
So about 0.5% difference.

But when tested together there is a 60% difference which flags up a fail ......sorry I didn't make that clearer at the start.

To me this all sounds very illogical....

It's just two wheel drive at the front, but I don't think this has any bearing on the issue?

Darren · « **Reply #54 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:43:33 PM »

I should add that what happens is the left side lags behind in time as the pressure builds up, but they both end up equal in the end.....I wish I had a graph to show to make it clearer.......

But that's not to say it's the car that's lagging, it could be the machine. We just don't know at this point.

dsquire · « **Reply #55 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:58:03 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 23, 2009, 07:43:33 PM

I should add that what happens is the left side lags behind in time as the pressure builds up, but they both end up equal in the end.....I wish I had a graph to show to make it clearer.......

But that's not to say it's the car that's lagging, it could be the machine. We just don't know at this point.

Now we are seeing something. The reason the left side lags behind is because there is a restriction some someplace in the system. It could be in the steel lines, the flex hose or the caliper.

Jack the front end up so that the tires clear the ground. Have someone apply the brakes and hold them for a bit untill they would have built up full pressure. Try to turn the wheel by hand and see how soon the brake releases allowing the wheel to turn. Repeat with other front wheel. Do this several times and compare one against the other. If one takes longer to release than the other then there is something restricting the flow of brake fluid. Compare this with the different rates of buildup when tested on the machine.

We will nail this one yet Darren.

Cheers

Don

Darren · « **Reply #56 on:** September 25, 2009, 10:55:27 AM »

Thought you might like the hear the latest up date on the brake situation. I took my car to another testing station today and there is nothing wrong with my brakes. Not only that the balance was exceptionally good according to the tester.

Whilst I'm very pleased to hear this I'm also not very happy at the same time as I'm out of pocket of over £200 and been without my car for two weeks.
A very annoyed Darren.

bogstandard · « **Reply #57 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:21:46 PM »

Darren,

Reminds of the chap called Wheeltapper Fred.

He rejected every loco wheel he tried, until he found that it was his hammer that was cracked.

Was the work carried out by recognised people? If so, you might have a good case against the testing station, for recovery of your uneccessary repair costs. Don't complain to the testing station, but much higher up, or even trading standards.

John

Darren · « **Reply #58 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:35:57 PM »

Don't worry John I have a big gob and that works quite well in a small community.

My exp with authorities makes me want to bury them along with the ~~crooked~~ incompetent tester.......

dsquire · « **Reply #59 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 25, 2009, 10:55:27 AM

Thought you might like the hear the latest up date on the brake situation. I took my car to another testing station today and there is nothing wrong with my brakes. Not only that the balance was exceptionally good according to the tester.

Whilst I'm very pleased to hear this I'm also not very happy at the same time as I'm out of pocket of over £200 and been without my car for two weeks.
A very annoyed Darren.

Darren

That is good news. I know that it can be a darn frustrating situation when it is happening to you.

I think I would be asking some questions of other customers that use this testing place. The best people to ask are usually people that don't have any understanding of vehicles such as most females. I hate places that rip customers off just because they don't understand vehicles like you or me.

Over here we have to get a vehicle emissions tests done every 2 years. When you go for a test it is one price which is fixed by the government. The tests are all conducted by computer. If you pass then good. If you fail then repairs have to be made but can be made by any garage or yourself. By law you can bring the vehicle back to the same station for retesting and they have to retest it for half price. It is in their best interest to pass you the first time around. Some of these stations will make repairs if you want but some only do the tests so they want you in and out as quick as possible and don't want to see you for another 2 years.

Cheers

Don

CrewCab · « **Reply #60 on:** September 25, 2009, 02:14:53 PM »

Glad you've got to the bottom of the problem Darren, though I'm not entirely surprised at the outcome. The garage should have a QA system/procedure in place to ensure regular calibration and the accuracy of their equipment, whilst they are happy to take your money for the MOT test they have a duty of care to make sure the service they provide is acceptable (Like an MOT for the MOT centre), and to be fair, I believe the regulatory authority for MOT stations has very sharp and fearsome teeth.

What I'm saying is, imho, you should tell them asap, I would think they will want to sort the problem out themselves, quickly, including reimbursing you for their co*k up rather than having Big Brother investigating their competence to carry out MOT's on behalf of HMG, their licence to undertake MOT's is basically their lifeline to an income, I doubt they would want to jeopardise that.

CC

jim · « **Reply #61 on:** September 25, 2009, 02:47:15 PM »

i'm glad you got it sorted,

Divided he ad · « **Reply #62 on:** September 25, 2009, 03:22:46 PM »

Hi Darren.... Just read through all the events of the last few days.... Sorry I missed the "fun!"

I would think from passed experience that there may be a hydraulic fluid deficiency in the left hand brake test roller? ( it was the left that was slow rising?)

I have seen this before when I worked in Mold (random town name!) The seal in one of the rollers hydraulic units (like a slave cylinder) was worn in it's bore and allowing fluid (brake fluid actually) to seep past it, completely screwing up the figures..... We figured it out when 3 cars had the same results!!!

You only have them calibrated once a year.... Like an MOT, time of test and all that!
Remember your brake cylinder could fail at any time in the year between tests couldn't it? You would realise the cylinder could fail at any time and therefore if you caused damage to something like a car/wall etc you would probably try and sort it out the best you could without being out of pocket? (insurance excess etc)
As it is the garage caused you stress and a 200 note bill.... you could possibly reclaim much of this without resorting to the "headmaster!"

Maybe a quiet word with the test station might help? they might service your motor or something as compo... Good luck getting cash out of them!

I never told you this but... If the tester doubts his rollers he can use the decelerometer in an emergency situation i.e. the rollers fail and he has cars booked in, he has to notify VOSA and the repair guys for the rollers etc.... From memory he has a few days that this can be used for to get the rollers repaired then he has to stop testing till repairs are made to satisfaction..... At least that is how it used to be, well that's how we did it anywho.

Reason for the line I take.....

VOSA (used to be the MOT) by the way are a bunch of B45ta£&s and I would not trust them as far as I could throw anyone of there "experts".

Idiots nearly lost me my job because of a "misinterpretation" of the wording about orange and white light in an indicator of all things.... Sounds minor but when the testers "pionts system" allows you 80 before you are struck off and they decide that 20 are issued for a "mis-fail" the 4 indicators that had pealed the orange paint off them due to heat over time and use, meaning that they where showing 1/2 white light in the upper part of the lens that I failed and they overturned meaning I got 80 points for 1 test!!!!!

Then I had to go for re-training (after a small "sign to admit guilt" or face a crown court thing

Yes, it's classed as a fraud case against the public! Obtaining money through deception. Since you are classed as a civil servant you're up for a slap if you don't take it on the chin and re-train. (I have no idea who wrote these rules!)

anyway... I went to the re-training and was told in the "tell me what you did to be the naughty boy I see before me" bit of the re-training that it was ridiculous and that ANY white light from an indicator was an instant fail, be it from a cracked orange lens or a peeling bulb!!!!

The gem of it was...... Because you had to sign the "admission of guilt" papers before the re-training I couldn't get the damn thing overturned and VOSA were fully protected against any fight I could muster. As said..... Bas7$£ds

Slightly

But you started me off!

Just might be the issue? ... The hydraulics in the roller system that is..... Not your indicators!

Glad you got the motor sorted in the end..... Quite an epic battle..... I must post a bit about my new motor sometime..... You'll love that.... Already cost me 300 notes and 2 days off the road.... Oh, and a replacement cylinder head

A story for another day I think..... I've got about 300 pages to read to catch up!!

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #63 on:** September 25, 2009, 06:12:49 PM »

Thanks for your insights Ralph, quite an interesting read. Totally agree on your views of those in authority, though I suppose I could uses them to my advantage this time. Trouble is those sorts tend to bite back at the same time they are pretending to help you.

I was thinking along the lines of they would probably want to test the car themselves and no doubt try their damned hardest to find ~~something~~, ~~anything~~, as much as possible wrong to attack the MOT tester with. While at the same time leaving me in the poo poo and no doubt telling me in the process that I couldn't drive the car home and would need a transporter before 4pm.....etc...etc

Can you tell.....I don't like authority much......cos they are mostly jumped up self opinionated ..........

Divided he ad · « **Reply #64 on:** September 26, 2009, 06:49:06 AM »

You're certainly correct about your car. If they re-tested it who knows what they might pick up on?

It's all meant to be an "even test" given at any station..... But that is complete carp!

I know testers who are so relaxed they're almost horizontal and others so keen they'll fail you for the tax disc holder impairing view if it's an inch too far to the right!

you've certainly got an interesting situation to sort out anyway!

Keep us posted.

Ralph.

John Hill · « **Reply #65 on:** September 26, 2009, 07:30:25 AM »

Some battle can be won but some cannot and it is pointless to shorten one's life worrying about it.

bogstandard · « **Reply #66 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:20:21 AM »

I usually take mine down to the local council MOT station, where they do the dustbin wagons and all the other council vehicles.

Always had a fair deal, usually cheaper than the local garages, and they fit you in when you want to go, not when they can get around to you. A totally neutral, but fair MOT, never had a single complaint about them, their machines are all up to scratch, and do the retest for free if you take it back within a certain time, unless it requires the rolling road, then there is a small retest fee.

John

Darren · « **Reply #67 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:22:28 AM »

Quote from: bogstandard on September 26, 2009, 09:20:21 AM

usually cheaper than the local garages,

That's because you've already paid for it once......and now a second time when you actually use it......

John Stevenson · « **Reply #68 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:32:35 AM »

Darren,
what with Ebay and MOT's you don't seem to have much luck.

Did you hunt whales in a previous life

John S.

Darren · « **Reply #69 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:34:47 AM »

I'm still haunting Wales.......

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Author Topic: UK MOT's (Read 25033 times)

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