Author Topic: A warning (Read 31186 times)

Darren · « **on:** September 08, 2009, 02:41:21 PM »

There are enough Ebay bashing sites abound, and perhaps I should not post this at all....

But I can't just stay silent....if you are about to sell even just one item on Ebay then you should perhaps read the rest of this post.

The problem is a combination of Ebay sellers no-longer being allowed to leave feedback on sales and Paypal protection policies.

It goes like this......
you sell an item of X value (could be any amount large or small)
Buyer pays for item using Paypal
You post item
Buyer claims non receipt and Paypal remove funds from you acc instantly. (If it's not in your PP acc they will take the amount from your bank)
Paypal then insist you provide tracking information for the parcel. (you didn't use tracking, tough you loose. You did use a tracking service, tough you still loose)

Why, you have the tracking No' to prove delivery and receipt. Well don't bother trying to take it up with Paypal because no-one is actually reading anything you send them. The whole process is automated even though they give you a box to comment in.

If and only if the buyer ticks the box that states they are finally satisfied with the outcome will Paypal re-deposit the funds back into your account.
If the buyer simply doesn't respond or states they still don't have the goods (despite the proof you have that they signed for it) then after 30 days the money is deposited into their account.

You loose the item and your money and postage costs.

Most people believe they are protected if PP is used for payment. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Try it, order something and then claim non receipt. 99% of the time you'll have the goods and get to keep your cash..........
(I don't mean that, just putting another slant on the issue)

This is rife on Ebay at the mo, google it and you'll find plenty of info about this issue.

Just be careful out there, money is not so easy for some of us to come by.

usn ret · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:10:10 PM »

It seems that there is always some

pond skum

out there to mess up a good deal for the rest of us.

. In Texas we had a saying that might help "Get a rope!!!"

Cliff

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:15:55 PM »

I wonder how long before Paypal get prosecuted for aiding fraud.

Barefoot-Leather · « **Reply #3 on:** September 08, 2009, 07:20:34 PM »

You will be pleased to know that PayPal have another slant on your scam. I got caught with this today after selling some nice bits on the bay:

PayPal email starts:

You've received a payment, detailed below. We've placed a temporary hold on the funds for this transaction.

eBay and PayPal are working together to make it safer than ever to buy on eBay. One of the boldest steps is to identify transactions that pose the greatest risk of fraud and holding the payments from sellers for a period of time to help ensure that the transactions go smoothly.

We'll release the payment for the eBay item if either of the following occurs:

The buyer leaves you positive feedback on eBay.
It's been 21 days since the payment date and you haven't received a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction being held
Additional hold period

If you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction, we may hold the payment until the problem is resolved.

Learn more about the PayPal policy on payment holds for eBay items.

We will notify you by email when the funds are released. You can also check the status of the hold in your Transaction History.

Payment Details

Amount (pending): 217.77 GBP

Email ends.

Effectively this means that if the buyer doesn't give you positive feedback, PayPal will hold on to your money for at least for 21 days. I called them to ask if they were intending to pay me interest on the money they had stolen. I was told that no interest will be paid as this is just our normal policy and is detailed in our trading terms.

Well, it may be detailed in their trading terms but I musta missed it! Silly me - I was expecting honest and transparent banking policies...

For what it is worth, the answer is pretty simple - if it happens to you don't post anything, issue an instant refund to the buyer then ask them to send a cheque (or in my case, make a payment to another PayPal account held for this very purpose). As you may have guessed, I've had hassle with the buggers before.

The refund went through and the other payment was made without a murmur... odd that!

Ray

Divided he ad · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2009, 07:59:58 PM »

Banking scum!

Everyone is out to screw the little guy. It doesn't take long for them to start stealing again does it!?

I hate the way they hold your money when you deposit a cheque at the bank just so they can play the exchange and gamble with it!

I'll not be using "pay scam " when I sell some of my stuff soon.... Cheque or C.O.D!

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2009, 08:55:15 PM »

Sadly it's now compulsory to accept Paypal on Ebay Ralph.......mention that you won't in the listing and it's likely to get pulled.

Also there are scams for buyers to loose their money too....

Darren · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2009, 09:02:25 PM »

Ray,

Was it a handbag by any chance?

jim · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2009, 11:07:13 PM »

if you have a low feedback/new member then you have to wait

ebay, owns paypal and controls an incredable amount of money, they just make it up as they go along.

out of interest, if you pay some one through paypal as a gift ( its under "personal" in type of payment) then there is no comision

NickG · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:08:16 AM »

Thanks for raising that Darren, i've sold stuff on ebay in the past through paypal but will have to be more careful in future.

Nick

Barefoot-Leather · « **Reply #9 on:** September 09, 2009, 07:08:33 AM »

Quote from: Darren on September 08, 2009, 09:02:25 PM

Ray,

Was it a handbag by any chance?

Not this time, Darren - although they have hit me on bag sales in the past. It seems that anything over £100 is likely to get pulled - push past the £200 mark and your card is definitely marked. A hand-stitched bag like this sells for £120 so they nail me almost every time:

Darren · « **Reply #10 on:** September 09, 2009, 08:09:07 AM »

My missus sold a designer bag on Ebay a couple of months ago.

Buyer paid, we sent, buyer left poss feedback and all was well in our little world for a couple of weeks.

Then Paypal withdrew the funds from our bank acc, re-funded the buyer and asked them to "destroy" the bag as Paypal believed it was a fake.
The bag was genuine and the buyer had this validated.

The end result was that the buyer was honest enough to send us a cheque. It could have been worse as you can probably imagine.

If you this this is a trivial matter because it's just a handbag then please think again. This handbag was worth more that most of your lathes or milling machines.

But what gets me is that Paypal made these decisions without seeing the item or receiving any complaints......
I realise they have a counterfeit problem, but surely this is not the way to try to tackle it....

I no longer accept Paypal for anything.

Darren · « **Reply #11 on:** September 13, 2009, 07:56:43 AM »

Something new has come to light......

If an Ebay buyer is dissatisfied Ebay will re-imburse from the sellers PayPal/Bank account.

This seems to be irrespective of how the payment was made.....!!!
So if the buyer sends you a cheque, makes a complaint, Ebay will take the funds from your account+fees+postage and re-imburse the buyer.

You loose everything.......!! And Ebay always sides with the buyer, there is no investigation.

In the notice Ebay also states if you don't agree with the new terms then here's the link to close your account....

John Stevenson · « **Reply #12 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:25:20 AM »

Quote from: Darren on September 09, 2009, 08:09:07 AM

My missus sold a designer bag on Ebay a couple of months ago.

Buyer paid, we sent, buyer left poss feedback and all was well in our little world for a couple of weeks.

Then Paypal withdrew the funds from our bank acc, re-funded the buyer and asked them to "destroy" the bag as Paypal believed it was a fake.
The bag was genuine and the buyer had this validated.

The end result was that the buyer was honest enough to send us a cheque. It could have been worse as you can probably imagine.

If you this this is a trivial matter because it's just a handbag then please think again. This handbag was worth more that most of your lathes or milling machines.

But what gets me is that Paypal made these decisions without seeing the item or receiving any complaints......
I realise they have a counterfeit problem, but surely this is not the way to try to tackle it....

I no longer accept Paypal for anything.

Darren,
you need to send this to one of the better nationals, like the Guardian as they will love this and it might wake a few more stories up they can run with and hurt Eaby into accepting that not all sellers are crooks whereas it making it easier for buyers to become crooks.

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** September 13, 2009, 01:24:03 PM »

John I am far from alone, there are many reports of this behaviour on various forums.

And plenty of other issues too.

Darren · « **Reply #14 on:** September 13, 2009, 02:30:37 PM »

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y09/m05/i13/s02

My experience it that Ebay is judge, jury and executioner with no evidence what-so-ever. What seems to be happening is more and more unscrupulous buyers are lining up to "declare" fakes and getting refunds while keeping the goods which are often genuine...for proof of return an empty package is not unheard of.

Another one it to "declare" the item was received was not new as advertised, but used.....result = refund......go figure.

Have you not noticed how hard it's getting to find anything interesting second hand on Ebay these days? That's because they are not there in the numbers they used to be.

raynerd · « **Reply #15 on:** September 13, 2009, 04:28:12 PM »

I`ve been taken on this twice as well over the last few years.

A couple of years ago I sold a guitar for about £450, buyer paid paypal and I sent. He emailed the next day to say it was not as described as it has a large split down the back. Well there was 100% no split on it when I sold it and the buyer ensured me he had not done it. Anyway, he initiated a refund on paypal where the money was returned to him (cocking up my banking, as the money was moved in another account!!) but I`d have refunded anyway but with less stress on my behalf. I was annoyed but had faith that I had paid £25 for insured postage to cover it! A week later and the guy thankfully returned my guitar (although I was lucky because once refunded you are in their hands) I had to go to the PO at 9:30am next morning to see post office manager. He was excellent, really sympathetic, showed him the rapper, the custom built padded hard case and the crack. No problem he said. 2 weeks later and a letter saying "your insurance does not cover this damaged item as the item was not sufficiently packaged" It was an absolute scam - I rang the PO for hours that morning but didn`t get anywhere.... well and truly jipped! No money and an irreparable guitar.

Second was more recently and as simple as Darren said. I sold a fish tank filter - £50, buyer claimed he didn`t receive it, I had no proof of postage and I ended up with no money and no filter!

Darren · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2009, 07:56:07 PM »

I've been using various carriers for over 10yrs and non of them have ever honoured their insurance. In the end I stopped insuring items. Not too long ago I was sending out items with each on average £150 ins cover, about eight a month. The packaging was specialist made to unbelievable standards, way over the top.

The breakages eventually became one of the main factors for me to cease trading as non of the carriers paid out.

If it can be broken, they will break it. Not every time, but enough.

Somewhere on the net is a list of what is not covered by Parcel Farce, this same list near enough applies to all carriers .
If it can be broken or is valuable it's on the list. You get the sweeping categories such as glass, stone, wood, antiques, Then the less broad watches, jewellery, etc. The list is enormous.

The only thing I ever found the cover useful for is loss, as in not delivered. Funny that, I've never had to make that claim.....ever...!

That's what makes Ebay claims such a farce...

I'm currently disputing a non receipt case, I have the receivers signature proof.....but I will loose....again. Three this last month.
It used to be an odds game, you made more than you lost so took it on the chin. Since the new rules that is no longer the case.

I want to sell my Sealey mill, normally I'd put it on Ebay, now I'm very reluctant to do so.

NickG · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2009, 12:01:17 PM »

I'm getting too scared to sell anything on ebay again after seeing this. In the past I've used it quite a lot to sell stuff and touch wood, had 100% feedback so far, but this is really putting me off.

Nick

Darren · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:34:02 AM »

I'm raging this morning......

I have just been scammed for another £360 this morning and Paypal have removed my funds. Not enough in my paypal acc so took it from my bank. Not enough there either so I will now occur bank charges on top as well.

It's over something I sold 3 weeks ago, £250 for the item and the rest is shipping to the middle east. It was a heavy item.

What makes it worse is the fact that myself and the buyer discussed this item with around 4 messages before he bought, thus confirming it met his needs/satisfaction.

This is the item, you might think that four scams in such a short space of time is probably my fault.
Please tell me how anyone could be misled by this auction....?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110410648114&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

I'm fuming.....I'm trying to sell my surplus items and all I'm doing is loosing the goods and cash on top......

This was his message in the PayPal dispute I'm supposed to respond to..

"物品与描述不符,声音一边大,一边小,喇叭已经退磁,不是正常的"

NickG · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:09:48 AM »

Darren,

Really feel for you, what a nightmare. I don't think I'm going to sell anything more on there. Or just play the game and only accept cash on collection. Could they do a disupute like this even if it was cash and they didn't pay through paypal?

Nick

Darren · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:16:06 AM »

According to the new rules Nick yes they can......

If you sell for cash and the buyer makes a dispute they will remove the funds from your PP acc, If you don't have one they can start legal proceedings apparently.

NickG · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:34:21 AM »

That is rubbish. I always thought the majority of people were quite honest, but this doesn't seem uncommon from what you and other people have said.

If somebody has come to see the item though and given you cash surely they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

It seems ridiculous the whole thing.

Darren · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:36:37 AM »

And Ebay have just removed my one and only auction because I stated in the listing that I do not accept PayPal as a form of payment.....

I have a lot of items to shift, but will no longer use Ebay.....trouble is where do you go...to sell that is..?

I have a nice Sealey miller for sale......anyone interested PM me....it's a 30 model which rarely found second hand and is significantly larger and sturdier than the common 25 model. It's also in very good condition.

NickG · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:43:10 AM »

a lot of the things I was selling, ebay was the only real market place for it, so I don't know. Usually it attracted decent prices too.

Very annoying, do you think you have much chance of getting the money / item back?

andyf · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:44:04 AM »

Darren, for engineering related sales, have you looked at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/ ?

Andy

Darren · « **Reply #25 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:45:23 AM »

On the 28th July, 2009 we informed you about the new faster and easier dispute resolution process on eBay. You can read the full announcement here.

Buyers will be able to resolve their problems on eBay through eBay Buyer Protection. We intend to make this process available to more and more buyers throughout 2009; although initially only a limited number of buyers will be able to use this process while we make sure it's working for everyone.

To reflect this change, the eBay.co.uk User Agreement will be updated.

eBay Buyer Protection

Under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy [v1], if we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favour, we may:

remove funds from the seller's PayPal account to reimburse the buyer for the costs of both the item and original postage fee. This is in accordance with the seller's authorisation provided to us under the new User Agreement [v2] ; or,
where there are insufficient funds in the seller's PayPal account or where PayPal is not the reimbursement method of the seller, directly refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original postage cost. In this case, the seller must reimburse us in full in a timely manner for an amount equivalent to the sum we paid to the buyer.

Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay at all times. The reimbursement method can be changed by contacting eBay and searching for 'Change My Reimbursement Method'. Where the seller is found at fault, we will notify them and charge the method of reimbursement they have on file.

Changes to the eBay.co.uk User Agreement

The new User Agreement is effective immediately for new members registering on or after today, and from 23rd October 2009 for current members. You don't need to do anything to accept the new User Agreement, but if you don't wish to accept, please, follow these instructions to close your account.

Yours sincerely,

The eBay Team

Darren · « **Reply #26 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:46:41 AM »

Quote from: andyf on September 21, 2009, 05:44:04 AM

Darren, for engineering related sales, have you looked at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/ ?

Andy

Thanks Andy, I will take a look....

Darren · « **Reply #27 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:48:44 AM »

Quote from: NickG on September 21, 2009, 05:43:10 AM

a lot of the things I was selling, ebay was the only real market place for it, so I don't know. Usually it attracted decent prices too.

Very annoying, do you think you have much chance of getting the money / item back?

Nick, I have yet to hear of a dispute being finalised in the sellers favour......the term dispute is a farce....

I will loose the items and the funds......the buyer will most likely get a proof of return for an empty envelope. The fact that the postage only costs pennies doesn't seem to trigger alarms with PayPal.

raynerd · « **Reply #28 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:57:12 AM »

That really is s...t

Do you play guitar by the way? I`ve been playing 12 years now...hugely into music, I see you seem to be as well.

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #29 on:** September 21, 2009, 06:07:52 AM »

The thing is they don't even stick to their own agreement...

Under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy [v1], if we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favour, we may:

remove funds from the seller's PayPal account to reimburse the buyer for the costs of both the item and original postage fee.

They remove the funds from the sellers acc the moment the dispute is opened, not after finding in the buyer favour as the agreement states...

Darren · « **Reply #30 on:** September 21, 2009, 06:12:04 AM »

I don't Chris, wish I could but I'm tone deaf....

That's why I ran a HiFi company

, mostly designing and manufacturing new items for the vinyl market. I also build ampliers....valve ones.

NickG · « **Reply #31 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:25:38 AM »

This is stupid, if you win an auction it's supposed to be legally binding, you can't go back and to a normal auction and take something back .. it's sold as seen, you make your own mind up about the description and the sellers feedback, that's what it's for. But then I suppose there are so many traders on ebay these days I guess you need some sort of buyer protection, it's more of a shop now, not an auction site. However, if they are going to do this, it shouldn't be until the dispute is resolved and the item is returned in the same condition that money should change hands again. The stipulation should be that you need to send the item back recorded delivery and submit the proof of that before you get any kind of refund. It's pathetic and I don't think I'll risk selling on there again. Like you said there's no way around the paypal thing either by the sounds of it.

Nick

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #32 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:07:45 AM »

Threaten legal action against ebay/Paypal for breach of their own rules.

The police (and national newspapers) might also be interested in their efforts to perpetuate fraud.

Darren · « **Reply #33 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:31:09 AM »

No good,

The police, and national newspapers, are well aware of the problems. In fact Australia has recently passes a new law against Ebay forcing the use of PayPal I believe for those very reasons.

Until that happens here there is not much we can do about it. Ebay will just make a new policy agreement as they seem to do on a monthly basis to their advantage.
It all comes down to neither Ebay or PayPay being a bank, so therefore they do not have to abide by banking regulations and no-one can make them.

The only way out is to use your feet where it hurts, but even that is no so simple. But, main sellers are leaving judging by the lack of second hand items to be found listed on Ebay today.

The place is no longer looking like an auction house, more a big store for new items.

I think the simple answer is not to take the risk of listing all together and be done with it......I still want my money though...it is mine, not theirs to play with.

Imagine, if just one million people had their funds taken from their accounts and held for the obligatory 30 days before a resolution is made. How much of that could be used by PayPal to be re-invested elsewhere to make further profits.

Maybe Paypal actually want disputes.......would be a good strategy business wise. It's nothing more than theft.....but who cares.....

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #34 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:49:24 AM »

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

The more complaints the police get, the more likely they are to do something about it.
Yours might be the one that puts the number over the threshold.

Is "Watchdog" still on? This is the kind of thing they might go after.

Bernd · « **Reply #35 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:52:50 AM »

A better solution to the problem is "quit" using E-bay. Hit them in their pocket book. If they don't get an income they can't survive. Trouble is to many people won't do that.

Other solution would be to start your own auction company.

Bernd

Darren · « **Reply #36 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:59:24 AM »

For what it's worth, apparently Paypal do read these posts even though they don't seem to read their own messages.

https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/Ask-a-question/Questions-summary/Submit-question/Its-done/

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #37 on:** September 21, 2009, 09:11:46 AM »

Did you mean to paste this:
https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/Ask-a-question/Questions-summary/Questions/September-2009/PayPal-break-their-own-user-Agreements/

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #38 on:** September 21, 2009, 09:50:39 AM »

More:
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/PAYPAL-SCAM-FRAUD-WARNING_W0QQugidZ10000000001453851

At the bottom:

Quote

PAYPAL ARE HOWEVER REGULATED BY THE 'FSA' AND I URGE EVERONE WHO HAS BEEN RIPPED OFF BY PAYPAL TO COMPLAIN TO THE FSA - THE FSA WEBSITE HAS PLENTY OF CONTACT DETAILS - EMAIL ADDRESS, POSTAL ADDRESS AND FAX NUMBERS. IF THE FSA GET ENOUGH COMPLAINTS THEN THEY SHOULD LOOK INTO WHAT PAYPAL ARE UPTO IN CLOSER DETAIL.

BE SURE TO KEEP COMPLAINTS FACTUAL AND INCLUDE THIS - PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056. The FSA will not look into individual complaints but if they get enough people complain about Paypal then they will look into thier business practices. Individual complaints should be directed to the financial ombudsman as they will deal with individual issues when Paypal steal your money !

Darren · « **Reply #39 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:01:02 AM »

I saw that one, did you see the bit about a piece of paper...near the bottom....I've had this one too.

Bernd,

The reason all this fraud goes on is because people are unaware how rife it is with no-one speaking up.

I have made a living from Ebay for many years, and been ripped off for what is collectivity a very substantial amount, several thousands of pounds.
But as I said before you made more than you lost so played along.
Now I'm finding I'm loosing more than I make....seriously.

If my drivel only helps one person not to get ripped off then I will be a happy man.

dsquire · « **Reply #40 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:07:16 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 21, 2009, 08:31:09 AM

No good,

Imagine, if just one million people had their funds taken from their accounts and held for the obligatory 30 days before a resolution is made. How much of that could be used by PayPal to be re-invested elsewhere to make further profits.

Maybe Paypal actually want disputes.......would be a good strategy business wise. It's nothing more than theft.....but who cares.....

Darren

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. When they take money from your account, how many people really follow up and take them to task for it until they get their money back. Sure, they yell and scream and send an email or 2. After a while they realize that they are going to have to spend thousands of $$$ to get their $100.00 back so they take the cheap way out and just chalk it up to experience. What it will probably take is a class action suit to make any progress against them.

The money they make off 1 transaction may only be a dollar or so but multiplied by a million or so now becomes an sizeable amount. The fact that very few people will do anything to stop them makes this a numbers game for them. If they see somebody closing in they will just change the tune and do a different dance.

I have never used FleaBay and after reading some of the many horror stories by both buyers and sellers over the last couple years I can't see me using them in this lifetime.

I hope that you are able to get this resolved in your favour Darren, I'll be watching.

Cheers

Don

Bernd · « **Reply #41 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:50:01 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 21, 2009, 10:01:02 AM

If my drivel only helps one person not to get ripped off then I will be a happy man.

I'm saying don't use E-bay. And if you can get more people involved as you say the better. More people "NOT" spending their money on E-bay the better.

Bernd

bogstandard · « **Reply #42 on:** September 21, 2009, 02:54:46 PM »

I must get involved here and give someone's view from another perspective. I don't know if I have been very fortunate, or very lucky, as I have dealt with ebay as a buyer for a few years, and have never suffered any bad experiences. The only hiccup was when someone sent me a batch of items and there was only half the quantity there (only cost a few squid). No reply from the seller, so I contacted PayPal, who sorted things with the seller, who then contacted me with an apology for not replying, told me to keep the items that were sent, and he also refunded my payment in full to my account.

I scan ebay every day, looking for those little items that I wouldn't be able to afford normally, and within a week or two of searching, I usually find what I want. I am a bit devious in that I use a last second snipe bidder, and I win a lot more than I lose.

I have noticed a great decline in private sales, and a large increase in shops, some using real underhand mailing costs to get the full retail price for the item.

But on the whole, I have never had any problems with sellers or PayPal.

I have never sold anything on ebay, so I can't comment on that part, as I normally give things away to the needy, rather than sell them.

Bogs

John Stevenson · « **Reply #43 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:29:47 PM »

Is it possible to have a bank account that can't go over drawn, ie no money in it to cover - refuse payment not go over drawn ?

If so then use one of these accounts and just keep £20 in so Paypal get a valid account flag.

Failing that set a reasonable price and advertise at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk

No fees for buyer or seller, no hidden costs at all.

John S. [ I use it all the while

]

Darren · « **Reply #44 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:30:59 PM »

John, put something up for sale on Ebay and I'll happily show you how it works....

Buyers have little to fear, unlike sellers.

kellswaterri · « **Reply #45 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:47:57 PM »

www.preloved.co.uk/...

CrewCab · « **Reply #46 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:06:16 PM »

OK, I'll jump on my soap box too ........... this is my personal experience only ..........

I've been using ebay since early 2004, and to press I've only had a couple of minor problems, with one he sent me a replacement, the other never replied, but for 99p I wasn't going to loose any sleep.

Then we have Pay Pal, if you allocate 1 account with a few quid in it then it's fine, but it will take about 10 days for payment to clear, you need to allocate a credit or debit card as well to get instant payment .......... your choice .......... again I've been enrolled with PayPal since 2004; I've had one problem, some scum bag in Indo-China scammed just over £550 out of my account, I knew nothing about this till PayPal emailed me saying "we've detected a problem" ........... and a couple of weeks later the money went back into my account ....... so ........ from my perspective I'm pretty happy with the service to date

Mind though I have a feed back with eBay of #210 (100% too

) but I've only ever bought stuff, to date I've never tried to sell anything.
.............. is this the difference .................. hth

CC

ScrapMaker · « **Reply #47 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:14:04 PM »

CrewCab,

I think that is the main difference. All of the problems I have ever encountered as a buyer have always been very smooth and easily dealt with.
But selling on the other hand has always been very very frustrating. Each time I have tried to sell anything I have always had my account frozen.
On one particular occasion the money was frozen in my account, and I had to pove ownership of the items that I was selling, aswell as postage details.
I got around it in the end by waiting for the buyers to write me emails which I forwarded to PayPal and my money was free again.
I'll only ever use ebay for buying now, never selling again.

raynerd · « **Reply #48 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:36:41 PM »

Ebay is fantastic if your a buyer - everything is in your favour and you can never lose.

It is selling that is the issue.

CrewCab · « **Reply #49 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:37:49 PM »

Quote from: ScrapMaker on September 21, 2009, 04:14:04 PM

I think that is the main difference.

ScrapMaker, reading Darren's post's again I suspect you are both correct in that the Buyer is favoured over the Seller, though it seems contradictory in their terms of trading

........... my Mrs has been on at me for a while to advertise a few bits for sale on ebay, sort of things that should selle asily for a few ponds that is ................. but now I'm a little concerned

........... I mean it's not like I'm trying to sell the GrandKids ......

.......... after all, let's be fair I'd pay you to take them

CC

CrewCab · « **Reply #50 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:47:51 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on September 21, 2009, 04:36:41 PM

Ebay is fantastic if your a buyer - everything is in your favour and you can never lose.

I think "fantastic" may be a little ott Chris, for 5 years I've generally been happy mind, but, had a "very minor" negative experience, .... now't to worry about in the sum total of 99p though .......... but, ....... I've also had some pals who bought a couple of Land Rover doors from a "seller" (£200) who then seemed reluctant to post them ........... though ......... thanks to a forum like this; but devoted to 4x4's; a local member called round and helped to expedite the sale .......

........... result, the buyer was quite happy, but it took a couple of weeks longer than it should have.

CC

Darren · « **Reply #51 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:28:22 PM »

There used to be a few problems for buyers, but mostly they have been sorted out by Paypal now so you should have little trouble in that respect.

But there are scams for buyers.

The famous one was Xmas before last. Mummy and Daddy bought little Jonny the latest PSP/XBox he's been screaming for. It arrives in a nice shiny box complete with cellophane wrapper intact. Mummy wraps it up and sticks it under the tree. Imagine little Jonnies face when he opens it and finds a ................................

brick......oh the joy.

Too late now, the seller has long gone along with his scammed millions.

That one hit the Watchdog TV programme.....

Just don't link your PP acc to your bank acc....

As a seller you have to make the link or you can't withdraw your income. I believe now you can't accept any PP payments for your sales either which would be a problem.

If anybody wants a real live demonstration or has any doubts just show me one of your live auctions. I will bid, pay, have the payment refunded and keep the goods. It's really quite simple to do.

Darren · « **Reply #52 on:** September 21, 2009, 06:02:35 PM »

See it's not just me......I am sane....well maybe.....

https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/Ask-a-question/Questions-summary/Questions/September-2009/-track-the-shipment-of-the-merchandise/?title=

raynerd · « **Reply #53 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:02:19 PM »

CC - no I really think ebay is fanstic as a buyer. Like John said in an earlier post, I only have to think of something in my head and 9/10 I can find one and at an excellent price if I am patient enough. Got loads of proper proper bargains off it, more so in the old days but there are still many to be had now. I got an original Omega Seamaster 1960`s bumper automatic for £30 about 3 years ago - I was willing to pay £200+, auction ended at 2am and no-one bid! I got my unimat lathe for £140 inc. milling attachment etc. Still good now, you just have to look harder. They are all bargains but it is still good for convienience, stuff at normal price but available on there!

Selling is a different kettle of fish.

John Hill · « **Reply #54 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:28:04 PM »

Apparently you all live in the wrong countries!

The NZ on-line auction is Trade Me http://www.trademe.co.nz/ which seems to work very well.

The process is that when the auctions closes the winning bidder arranges payment, usually by direct bank transfer with costs the buyer nothing and the seller sends the goods. I suppose some people have bad experiences but I do not hear of many.

BTW, none of this 'sniping' nonsence either, if anyone bids in the last few moments the auction auto-extends. I usually use the auto-bid function where I put in my highest offer and the software bids me up by mimimum increments until I reach that limit or everyone else stops and the auction closes with the sale going to me.

andyf · « **Reply #55 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:40:21 PM »

What surprises me about Ebay and PayPal is that they seem so ready to drive their customers away. I'm not sure about the connection between them, but they at the very least cosily symbiotic.

If press reports are to be believed, a significant number of private buyers and sellers are beginning to feel they are being ripped off by without any effective remedy from Ebay or PayPal. Darren says (and I believe him more than the press) the same is also true of the traders who Ebay now seems to think will provide it with the best income stream, by way of commission - it looks as though it is trying to go into competition with Amazon, by changing its core business into providing on-line market stalls for traders.

Between the pair of them. Ebay and Paypal seem to getting a pretty bad reputation with everyone they rely on for their income stream. Bad news travels fast these days, and if they continue along their present track I don't see a rosy future for either outfit. The financial analysts of the press are beginning to express doubts about their viability, though I would be the first to concede that the analysts who write those pages wren't exactly clairvoyant about the current world financial mess.

The trouble is that a lot of people are, like Darren, going to lose a lot of money before Ebay and PayPal either change their ways or go to the wall.

Andy

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #56 on:** September 22, 2009, 04:00:39 AM »

A couple of the places I deal with on there for metal have their own sites, and I've been switching my trade to those where possible.

Having been on the receiving end of PayPal's freezing shenanigans (used for convention ticket sales - £20,000+), this is kind of the last straw.

Darren · « **Reply #57 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:28:42 AM »

This morning I received an update from paypal. This is not for the speakers this is another previous case before.

To date this is how it's gone.

Sold Item
buyer paid
I sent item
Buyer claims non receipt
I provide PP with tracking info
Buyer never makes any further response from the original opening of the dispute. (they are supposed to add further information to assist the claim)

today I get from Paypal

Dear Mr xxxxxxx

As you know, we're investigating a transaction problem that one of your
buyers recently reported.

It's taking a little longer than we expected to reach a decision. We're
actively working on your case and will notify you on the next steps as soon
as possible.

For the latest information about your case, please log in and visit the
Resolution Centre.

If the buyer wont respond they are either happy or scamming. If they wanted to pursue the claim they would continue with the process......you would think...

Apart from that I am only supposed to provide proof of delivery with tracking info to protect myself, which I have done.

This is now in it's sixth week......how long does it take......oh, could be six months by some reports I've been reading....

Darren · « **Reply #58 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:15:02 AM »

I have made such a pain in the arse of myself on that Paypal questions site that I have been promised that Paypal "will" be in contact with me today.....

But I doubt that will do any good. Basically I have been telling them how their "secure" systems fail and how to scam on Ebay.....trouble is I'm also telling the world and they don't like it.
Not on their own site.......

Funnily enough non of the posts have been pulled......yet....

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #59 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:29:34 AM »

Nice barrage, Darren!

So PayPal is a bank in the UK, but regulated by a body in Luxembourg...
Seems a bit like Panamanian registry on a dodgy cargo ship.

Darren · « **Reply #60 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:36:07 AM »

Can I quote that? I missed that point......

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #61 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:39:57 AM »

Please do.
Though I have already done so in an earlier question about "Who regulates PayPal".

Darren · « **Reply #62 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:46:41 AM »

Ah, I missed that, I have been so busy this morning as you no doubt realise

I have used it.......

Darren · « **Reply #63 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:23:55 PM »

Received from Paypal today, another £41.00 gone.....

I don't have enough funds now to cover the amounts Paypal are stealing from me. Would you believe it they are also asking for me to add funds to cover the neg balance.......yeah, right you are.....

I think my balance is now around £350 in the red, that's the red after they took the original balance btw.

Below is a resolution notice, I provided all the proof of delivery and receipt they required in order to benefit from their sellers protection programme.

And it looks like there is more to come.......oh the joy.......

Dear Darren XXXX,

PayPal has concluded the investigation of the following claim:

Buyer's name: victoria hopkins
Buyer's email: v-hopkins@XXXXXX.co.uk
Transaction ID: 3T226227XXXXXXX

Transaction date: 21 Aug 2009
Transaction amount: 41.00 GBP
Your transaction ID: 40T984XXXXXXX
Case number: PP-776-505-XXX

A refund has been initiated from your account and the case is now closed.
Unfortunately, due to insufficient funds your account balance is now
negative and may be limited. Any funds entering the account will apply
toward making a positive balance.

This claim has been solved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this buyer.

Yours sincerely,

Protection Services Department

Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1999-2009 PayPal. All rights reserved.

PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Registered Office: 5th Floor 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

PayPal Email ID PP689

No1_sonuk · « **Reply #64 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:55:04 PM »

Quote from: Darren on September 25, 2009, 12:23:55 PM

This claim has been solved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this buyer.

Amicable for who? Besides, I thought they stopped sellers leaving negative feedback for buyers.

Darren · « **Reply #65 on:** September 25, 2009, 01:01:46 PM »

Yes I noticed that too.....yet another paypal mistake.....

Shall I tell Heather, I bet she hates me by now........

Darren · « **Reply #66 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:02:00 PM »

Ebay is banning Cash On Collection payments .... I got a warning today..... In the interest of seller/buyer protection ....

Alert!

As of 5 November 2009, you will be unable to list your item if cash is referenced as part of your payment instructions for in person transactions, outside of a few limited categories called out within the Accepted Payments policy. Although you may offer payment upon pick-up as an option when listings your items, you cannot openly solicit cash payments. For example, you are not allowed to say, “I accept cash in person” or “Cash accepted on collection”....."

Darren · « **Reply #67 on:** November 24, 2009, 01:36:21 PM »

I'm happy to report that it's great when the "little" man can make the giant bow ....

On every ebay listing there are these short comforting words "Pay with PayPal and you can be fully protected"

Well they are about to change their wording. I'm not sure to what as yet but I've had the conformation that it's about to happen.

For what good it'll do mind ....

And on the other hand I got a 3 day Ebay suspension

Serves me right I suppose

cedge · « **Reply #68 on:** November 24, 2009, 04:02:12 PM »

Darren
I stopped using Ebay to sell toy engines about two years ago. The moment they stopped buyers and sellers from being able to communicate, I saw trouble on the horizon. Then they decided to hide identities, making it impossible to spot shill bidders and problem bidders one had encountered along the way.

I was long gone by the time they forced Pay-pal on everyone, but a friend who thought I was crazy for not selling, stayed on. I told him the problems you describe were coming but he was among the faithful. He finally quit when the same thing you've described began happening to him.

Ebay has managed to cause far worse problems than their idiotic efforts were meant to cure. Today it has become a great place to get scammed, robbed and abused.... and that is just by management. The most crooked buyers are mere pikers in comparison.

I still make an occasional tool purchase on Ebay, but I'm very selective and I weigh the risks before clicking that buy it now button. Luckily, I've got other avenues in which to offer items for sale and no longer have to depend on Ebay. Don't get me started on the dangers and pitfalls of Craig's list....LOL

Steve

Darren · « **Reply #69 on:** November 24, 2009, 06:04:52 PM »

I hadn't noticed I posted "Pay with PayPal and you can be fully protected"

It used to read ""Pay with PayPal and you’re fully protected"

They have already changed it .....

I did that, that was me that was,

mind you it took some effort to convince them ...

But it should read "Pay with PayPal and you might be fully protected" that would be closer to the truth .... but then what did I expect from such a ........ better not say eh ... not here.

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