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Author Topic: A warning  (Read 31187 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2009, 05:45:23 AM »
On the 28th July, 2009 we informed you about the new faster and easier dispute resolution process on eBay. You can read the full announcement here.

Buyers will be able to resolve their problems on eBay through eBay Buyer Protection. We intend to make this process available to more and more buyers throughout 2009; although initially only a limited number of buyers will be able to use this process while we make sure it's working for everyone.

To reflect this change, the eBay.co.uk User Agreement will be updated.

eBay Buyer Protection

Under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy [v1], if we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favour, we may:

   remove funds from the seller's PayPal account to reimburse the buyer for the costs of both the item and original postage fee. This is in accordance with the seller's authorisation provided to us under the new User Agreement [v2] ; or,
   where there are insufficient funds in the seller's PayPal account or where PayPal is not the reimbursement method of the seller, directly refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original postage cost. In this case, the seller must reimburse us in full in a timely manner for an amount equivalent to the sum we paid to the buyer.

Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay at all times. The reimbursement method can be changed by contacting eBay and searching for 'Change My Reimbursement Method'. Where the seller is found at fault, we will notify them and charge the method of reimbursement they have on file.

Changes to the eBay.co.uk User Agreement

The new User Agreement is effective immediately for new members registering on or after today, and from 23rd October 2009 for current members. You don't need to do anything to accept the new User Agreement, but if you don't wish to accept, please, follow these instructions to close your account.


Yours sincerely,

The eBay Team
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 05:46:41 AM »
Quote from: andyf on September 21, 2009, 05:44:04 AM
Darren, for engineering related sales, have you looked at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/ ?

Andy

Thanks Andy, I will take a look.... :thumbup:
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2009, 05:48:44 AM »
Quote from: NickG on September 21, 2009, 05:43:10 AM
a lot of the things I was selling, ebay was the only real market place for it, so I don't know. Usually it attracted decent prices too.

Very annoying, do you think you have much chance of getting the money / item back?

Nick, I have yet to hear of a dispute being finalised in the sellers favour......the term dispute is a farce....

I will loose the items and the funds......the buyer will most likely get a proof of return for an empty envelope. The fact that the postage only costs pennies doesn't seem to trigger alarms with PayPal.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: A warning
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2009, 05:57:12 AM »
That really is s...t

Do you play guitar by the way? I`ve been playing 12 years now...hugely into music, I see you seem to be as well.

Chris
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2009, 06:07:52 AM »
The thing is they don't even stick to their own agreement...

Under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy [v1], if we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favour, we may:

   remove funds from the seller's PayPal account to reimburse the buyer for the costs of both the item and original postage fee.

They remove the funds from the sellers acc the moment the dispute is opened, not after finding in the buyer favour as the agreement states...
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2009, 06:12:04 AM »
I don't Chris, wish I could but I'm tone deaf....

That's why I ran a HiFi company :lol:, mostly designing and manufacturing new items for the vinyl market. I also build ampliers....valve ones.



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Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2009, 07:25:38 AM »
This is stupid, if you win an auction it's supposed to be legally binding, you can't go back and to a normal auction and take something back .. it's sold as seen, you make your own mind up about the description and the sellers feedback, that's what it's for. But then I suppose there are so many traders on ebay these days I guess you need some sort of buyer protection, it's more of a shop now, not an auction site. However, if they are going to do this, it shouldn't be until the dispute is resolved and the item is returned in the same condition that money should change hands again. The stipulation should be that you need to send the item back recorded delivery and submit the proof of that before you get any kind of refund. It's pathetic and I don't think I'll risk selling on there again. Like you said there's no way around the paypal thing either by the sounds of it.

Nick
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: A warning
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2009, 08:07:45 AM »
Threaten legal action against ebay/Paypal for breach of their own rules.

The police (and national newspapers) might also be interested in their efforts to perpetuate fraud.
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2009, 08:31:09 AM »
No good,

The police, and national newspapers, are well aware of the problems. In fact Australia has recently passes a new law against Ebay forcing the use of PayPal I believe for those very reasons.

Until that happens here there is not much we can do about it. Ebay will just make a new policy agreement as they seem to do on a monthly basis to their advantage.
It all comes down to neither Ebay or PayPay being a bank, so therefore they do not have to abide by banking regulations and no-one can make them.

The only way out is to use your feet where it hurts, but even that is no so simple. But, main sellers are leaving judging by the lack of second hand items to be found listed on Ebay today.

The place is no longer looking like an auction house, more a big store for new items.

I think the simple answer is not to take the risk of listing all together and be done with it......I still want my money though...it is mine, not theirs to play with.



Imagine, if just one million people had their funds taken from their accounts and held for the obligatory 30 days before a resolution is made. How much of that could be used by PayPal to be re-invested elsewhere to make further profits.

Maybe Paypal actually want disputes.......would be a good strategy business wise. It's nothing more than theft.....but who cares.....



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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: A warning
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2009, 08:49:24 AM »
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

The more complaints the police get, the more likely they are to do something about it.
Yours might be the one that puts the number over the threshold.

Is "Watchdog" still on?  This is the kind of thing they might go after.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: A warning
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2009, 08:52:50 AM »
A better solution to the problem is "quit" using E-bay. Hit them in their pocket book. If they don't get an income they can't survive. Trouble is to many people won't do that.

Other solution would be to start your own auction company.

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2009, 08:59:24 AM »
For what it's worth, apparently Paypal do read these posts even though they don't seem to read their own messages.

https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/Ask-a-question/Questions-summary/Submit-question/Its-done/
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: A warning
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2009, 09:11:46 AM »
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: A warning
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2009, 09:50:39 AM »
More:
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/PAYPAL-SCAM-FRAUD-WARNING_W0QQugidZ10000000001453851

At the bottom:
Quote
PAYPAL ARE HOWEVER REGULATED BY THE 'FSA' AND I URGE EVERONE WHO HAS BEEN RIPPED OFF BY PAYPAL TO COMPLAIN TO THE FSA - THE FSA WEBSITE HAS PLENTY OF CONTACT DETAILS - EMAIL ADDRESS, POSTAL ADDRESS AND FAX NUMBERS. IF THE FSA GET ENOUGH COMPLAINTS THEN THEY SHOULD LOOK INTO WHAT PAYPAL ARE UPTO IN CLOSER DETAIL.

BE SURE TO KEEP COMPLAINTS FACTUAL AND INCLUDE THIS - PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056. The FSA will not look into individual complaints but if they get enough people complain about Paypal then they will look into thier business practices. Individual complaints should be directed to the financial ombudsman as they will deal with individual issues when Paypal steal your money !

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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2009, 10:01:02 AM »
I saw that one, did you see the bit about a piece of paper...near the bottom....I've had this one too.

Bernd,

The reason all this fraud goes on is because people are unaware how rife it is with no-one speaking up.

I have made a living from Ebay for many years, and been ripped off for what is collectivity a very substantial amount, several thousands of pounds.
But as I said before you made more than you lost so played along.
Now I'm finding I'm loosing more than I make....seriously.

If my drivel only helps one person not to get ripped off then I will be a happy man.

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Offline dsquire

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Re: A warning
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2009, 01:07:16 PM »
Quote from: Darren on September 21, 2009, 08:31:09 AM
No good,



Imagine, if just one million people had their funds taken from their accounts and held for the obligatory 30 days before a resolution is made. How much of that could be used by PayPal to be re-invested elsewhere to make further profits.

Maybe Paypal actually want disputes.......would be a good strategy business wise. It's nothing more than theft.....but who cares.....





Darren

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. When they take money from your account, how many people really follow up and take them to task for it until they get their money back. Sure, they yell and scream and send an email or 2. After a while they realize that they are going to have to spend thousands of $$$ to get their $100.00 back so they take the cheap way out and just chalk it up to experience. What it will probably take is a class action suit to make any progress against them.

The money they make off 1 transaction may only be a dollar or so but multiplied by a million or so now becomes an sizeable amount. The fact that very few people will do anything to stop them makes this a numbers game for them. If they see somebody closing in they will just change the tune and do a different dance.

I have never used FleaBay and after reading some of the many horror stories by both buyers and sellers over the last couple years I can't see me using them in this lifetime.

I hope that you are able to get this resolved in your favour Darren, I'll be watching.

Cheers :beer:

Don
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Offline Bernd

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Re: A warning
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2009, 01:50:01 PM »
Quote from: Darren on September 21, 2009, 10:01:02 AM
If my drivel only helps one person not to get ripped off then I will be a happy man.



I'm saying don't use E-bay. And if you can get more people involved as you say the better. More people "NOT" spending their money on E-bay the better.

Bernd
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bogstandard

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Re: A warning
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2009, 02:54:46 PM »
I must get involved here and give someone's view from another perspective. I don't know if I have been very fortunate, or very lucky, as I have dealt with ebay as a buyer for a few years, and have never suffered any bad experiences. The only hiccup was when someone sent me a batch of items and there was only half the quantity there (only cost a few squid). No reply from the seller, so I contacted PayPal, who sorted things with the seller, who then contacted me with an apology for not replying, told me to keep the items that were sent, and he also refunded my payment in full to my account.

I scan ebay every day, looking for those little items that I wouldn't be able to afford normally, and within a week or two of searching, I usually find what I want. I am a bit devious in that I use a last second snipe bidder, and I win a lot more than I lose.

I have noticed a great decline in private sales, and a large increase in shops, some using real underhand mailing costs to get the full retail price for the item.

But on the whole, I have never had any problems with sellers or PayPal.

I have never sold anything on ebay, so I can't comment on that part, as I normally give things away to the needy, rather than sell them.


Bogs
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Offline John Stevenson

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Re: A warning
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2009, 03:29:47 PM »
Is it possible to have a bank account that can't go over drawn, ie no money in it to cover - refuse payment not go over drawn ?

If so then use one of these accounts and just keep £20 in so Paypal get a valid account flag.

Failing that set a reasonable price and advertise at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk

No fees for buyer or seller, no hidden costs at all.

John S. [ I use it all the while  :clap: ]
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2009, 03:30:59 PM »
John, put something up for sale on Ebay and I'll happily show you how it works....

Buyers have little to fear, unlike sellers.
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Offline kellswaterri

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Re: A warning
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2009, 03:47:57 PM »
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: A warning
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2009, 04:06:16 PM »
OK, I'll jump on my soap box too ........... this is my personal experience only ..........

I've been using ebay since early 2004, and to press I've only had a couple of minor problems, with one he sent me a replacement, the other never replied, but for 99p I wasn't going to loose any sleep.

Then we have Pay Pal, if you allocate 1 account with a few quid in it then it's fine, but it will take about 10 days for payment to clear, you need to allocate a credit or debit card as well to get instant payment .......... your choice .......... again I've been enrolled with PayPal since 2004; I've had one problem, some scum bag in Indo-China scammed just over £550 out of my account, I knew nothing about this till PayPal emailed me saying "we've detected a problem" ........... and a couple of weeks later the money went back into my account ....... so ........ from my perspective I'm pretty happy with the service to date   :scratch:

Mind though I have a feed back with eBay of #210  (100% too  :beer: ) but I've only ever bought stuff, to date I've never tried to sell anything.
 .............. is this the difference ..................   hth   :smart:

CC
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Offline ScrapMaker

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Re: A warning
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2009, 04:14:04 PM »
CrewCab,

I think that is the main difference. All of the problems I have ever encountered as a buyer have always been very smooth and easily dealt with.
But selling on the other hand has always been very very frustrating. Each time I have tried to sell anything I have always had my account frozen.
On one particular occasion the money was frozen in my account, and I had to pove ownership of the items that I was selling, aswell as postage details.
I got around it in the end by waiting for the buyers to write me emails which I forwarded to PayPal and my money was free again.
I'll only ever use ebay for buying now, never selling again.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: A warning
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2009, 04:36:41 PM »
Ebay is fantastic if your a buyer - everything is in your favour and you can never lose.

It is selling that is the issue.
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: A warning
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2009, 04:37:49 PM »
Quote from: ScrapMaker on September 21, 2009, 04:14:04 PM
I think that is the main difference. 

ScrapMaker, reading Darren's post's again I suspect you are both correct in that the Buyer is favoured over the Seller, though it seems contradictory in their terms of trading  :scratch: ........... my Mrs has been on at me for a while to advertise a few bits for sale on ebay, sort of things that should selle asily for a few ponds that is ................. but now I'm a little concerned  :bugeye: ........... I mean it's not like I'm trying to sell the GrandKids ......  :lol: .......... after all, let's be fair I'd pay you to take them  :beer:

CC
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