Author Topic: Index Parting tool  (Read 30809 times)

Offline Darren

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Index Parting tool
« on: September 17, 2009, 08:46:25 AM »
I'm looking for an index parting tool.......but there are so many and much worse is the vast no' of tips out there....

Spot a tool on ebay, seller gives no indication of tip requirements, retailers inc here btw, you contact then and they say we can supply spare tips at £££££££'s

That's no good, what i want to know before buying is what the tip part no's are........I'm almost giving up on getting one at all at this rate....


But I want one......NOW....!!!

 :)
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Offline websterz

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 09:09:17 AM »
I'm looking for an index parting tool.......but there are so many and much worse is the vast no' of tips out there....

Spot a tool on ebay, seller gives no indication of tip requirements, retailers inc here btw, you contact then and they say we can supply spare tips at £££££££'s

That's no good, what i want to know before buying is what the tip part no's are........I'm almost giving up on getting one at all at this rate....


But I want one......NOW....!!!

 :)

Why Darren? Having used both inserted parting tools and homemade HSS versions I MUCH prefer the latter. Oh, the carbide is okay for a production environment on a CNC machine but is massive overkill for MOST guys working on smaller equipment at home. Then there's cost. I make my parting tools out of HSS blanks at a cost of less than $5 a pop. I can resharpen that $5 blank hundreds of times, giving me a new parting tool profile for a few cents each. Crunch a parting tool insert and you are out a whole lot more than a few cents.

On my little 7x12 I part a lot of 5/8" diameter 4140 round stock. I can make a cut in under a minute, and can get 30-40 cuts before I stop and hone the edge. That's pretty darn efficient. I'll be happy to provide details on my parting tool/post/technique of anyone is interested. I need to set up and grind a few new tools anyway...might as well photo the process.  :ddb:
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Offline NorthOf40

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »
I'll be happy to provide details on my parting tool/post/technique of anyone is interested. I need to set up and grind a few new tools anyway...might as well photo the process.

Yes please!
Jim
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2009, 09:44:58 AM »
Parting small diameters is fine with HSS, but when working with SS, hard materials, both of which I like using or even 3" steel bar then parting takes on a whole new meaning.

Even a 20mm SS bar eats my HSS parting tool to the point I might have to re-sharpen it 3 or four times before finishing.

I have to admit I like using index tooling, but then it's prob due to the materials I like working with. I've used very little alloy or brass to date.

Another point. My lathe has no power feeds, so I like to turn fast to get a good finish by hand. Again index tooling works well here over HSS.

It's just a preference on my part.... :)

But I would like to see how you go about it, maybe I can change..... :ddb:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 09:50:59 AM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 09:57:23 AM »
Here's a vid I made some time ago, you have to appreciate the cutting surface area this tool is dealing with at the end of the vid. It will do this all day long.

But give me a parting tool and the struggle is unbelievable.  The lathe has the power, but I can't part with the darn thing to save my life...


« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:07:50 AM by Darren »
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bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 10:56:33 AM »
Hi Darren,

Do not despair, you are just one of the many millions who have a little (or a lot of) trouble parting off.
The very quickie lesson I gave you was definitely not enough.

I am one of the very lucky ones who seems to have no trouble parting off. But even I have tried many different methods to make it just that little easier.

It was only a couple of months ago that I was given a parting tool that really revolutionized my way of thinking, and it is shown in this post.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1370.msg12873#msg12873

There are many of the type you are talking about, and as you say, they all look to use the same insert, but each one is just that tiny bit different. All you can really do is to buy one from a retailer who stocks the tips as well.

These two might help you a little.

RDG has only just started to get these in, and as of yet, only has the 20mm shank size. I am waiting until they get the smaller sizes in before buying a 16mm one to fit my holders. I don't like dealing with Chronos, so that is why I haven't ordered one from there, but if you go down the page a bit, they have the full range in and the tips as well. It is up to you whether you go for those or not.
There are two types of holders on there, the ones at the top are limited in their depth of cut, as the one I have is. The bottom ones seem to be the more versatile, as the holder can be extended or retracted to whatever depth is required (within reason)

http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Parting_Systems__Indexable_.html

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Parting_Tools_82.html

If you do go for this type, and you still have problems, it may be your technique, then it looks like you will be having another visitor to try to sort things out for you, and give you an in depth dose of parting off.


John

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 12:48:30 PM »
I have a Glanze clamp type from the Chronos link posted by Bogs.
Goes through like a hot knife through butter.

BUT!  make sure you dont stop the machine part-way through - the tip can come out and be stuck in the gap!
Not that it's happened to me... much...  :doh:

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 02:29:00 PM »
Thanks for the replies, I'd seen the RDG ones but still no info on the tips. That's fine until RDG stops keeping them in stock if they become a slow mover etc.
Kinda puts me off a bit. But I really would like one.

Sonuk, do you find they last ok? What happens when one jumps out, do they chip easily......ta.... :thumbup:
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2009, 02:43:03 PM »
Not used it much so far, and only on ali and brass.  It didn't chip when it got stuck.  All I needed to do was push the tool back in to relocate the tip, and "wiggle" the chuck around and back a bit to free it.

Offline John Hill

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2009, 02:48:05 PM »
I am not sure what brand mine is except it was $$$$$$,  the shop had a special on and I bought the 'kit' in one purchase, holder, blade and a few inserts.

It went really well and chopped through anything I poked it at then one day I moved the feed lever the wrong way and a piece of the blade went past my left ear and did a re-entry somewhere over the Antarctic Ocean.  Fortunately the blade had too ends so all was not lost until something went wrong, I dont know what and I snapped the other end.  The replacement blade was more than the original kit!  

Left with a useless holder and a box of tips I kidnapped some kid at the mall and sold him to a company that does medical experiments which allowed me to buy another blade but now I am very careful to use it only when necessary, which sort of defeats the purpose.  Otherwise I use the original broken blade which I have ground to a cutting shape.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 02:53:35 PM »
Ouch...that's worrying John....... :scratch:
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bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2009, 03:21:57 PM »
Darren,

I look at it that if I buy 10 tips with a new tool, they will last me long enough until something new comes along.

I bought special parting tool from Chester UK at least ten years ago. I am nearly ready to fit the last of the five tips that I bought with it (now unavailable). Hence my search for one to replace it.

Tips, if used correctly, should last the average modeller a rather long time. It is only when they are used incorrectly that you start to chew up tips. I would expect one tip to last me at least a year on average use. Even my normal turning tips last for ages. I reckon I have used about 25 to 30 tips in the ten years since I started to use the system I have now. That works out to about 6 squid a year.
But one thing I do do is only use good quality holders, making my own just doesn't come into it, unless it is for a very special job where no holders can be obtained. Like my ball turning tool, that has yet to be finished. It might save a few squid to make your own holders, but how much does it cost you in broken tips because an angle is slightly out and the tip hasn't got the correct support it was designed to have, or even the correct bolt to hold it in place, shaped to the curve of the holding hole.

Just a note, I don't tickle the jobs I do, I take no prisoners when it comes to removing metal, that is what carbide tips are designed to do.


John

Offline jim

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2009, 04:01:55 PM »
Darren,

I look at it that if I buy 10 tips with a new tool, they will last me long enough until something new comes along.

I bought special parting tool from Chester UK at least ten years ago. I am nearly ready to fit the last of the five tips that I bought with it (now unavailable). Hence my search for one to replace it.

do you know the tip code?
if i'd thought it through, i'd have never tried it

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2009, 04:07:30 PM »
Just a note, I don't tickle the jobs I do, I take no prisoners when it comes to removing metal, that is what carbide tips are designed to do.
Indeed.  If I go easy with mine, it wails like a banshee.  Shove it in hard and it quietly munches away.

Umm. OK.  That' probably the "cleanest" version...  ::)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2009, 04:33:14 PM »
Darren, I know I`m only new and can`t offer much advice but I did see the parting system that Allen sells at RDG when I went there a week last Saturday. I was talking to him about parting a 3" bar of steel (before I cut my bar for the QCTP) and he showed me his setup. He was mounting it from the rear with the parting tool upside down but the thing melts it like butter! I`d have bought one there and then, only a lack of cash held me back. I have real trouble parting. It did look bloody big though but he assured me it would be fine for my boxford tool post!? The actual cutting blade sticks out a good 2" ish so cutting 3" dia would be no problem for it. I guess a smaller shank would have a smaller blade. Regarding tips I haven`t got a clue but like John said, I guess if you invest in a few you shouldn`t have problems sorceing them when you run out.

It really did look a mean piece of kit!!  http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Parting_Systems__Indexable_.html

When I get some money I`ll be getting one for sure.

By the way, just some interesting inf0 - apparently RDG are about to start videoing all their tools in action and posting vids on youtube linked to their site so you can see how they perform and how to use them.


Chris

p.s Usual disclaimer, not associated with RDG, just local and very helpful!

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 04:55:20 PM »
If you can reverse your lathe, you don't need a rear tool post to get the same effect.

Stick it in reverse, and fit the tool upside-down in your normal tool post.

Offline websterz

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 05:12:08 PM »
If you can reverse your lathe, you don't need a rear tool post to get the same effect.

Stick it in reverse, and fit the tool upside-down in your normal tool post.

That works too, but you have to stop the chuck and reverse it when going from turning to parting. I have a video coming up shortly showing my setup...just converting and uploading it now.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 05:16:04 PM »
To be honest I didn`t get into a discussion about why he was parting from the rear and upside down, he had been talking to me for a good while and didn`t want to ask to many questions. Never the less, the parting system worked a treat.

Chris

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 05:23:20 PM »
Upside-down, the tool gets lifted away from the centre, and is less likely to dig in and jam.
Right way up, and the tool can easily jam the lathe if it digs in.

Offline websterz

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bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2009, 06:01:21 PM »
Jimmyocharlie,

I had Stew look around the Harrogate show for me, even at the tip suppliers, and they had nothing close at all.


John

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 06:20:15 PM »
Nice demo and I can see it works well for you with the 7x12.  :clap:

Better than I manage which is not difficult...... :doh:

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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 06:25:34 PM »
If you can reverse your lathe, you don't need a rear tool post to get the same effect.

Stick it in reverse, and fit the tool upside-down in your normal tool post.

That works too, but you have to stop the chuck and reverse it when going from turning to parting. I have a video coming up shortly showing my setup...just converting and uploading it now.
No choice if you can't fit a rear tool post on your machine...

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 06:32:10 PM »
I bought one..... :) Not exactly what I was looking for but it came up on the bay cheap enough to give it a go.....tomorrow is a pack of ten tips for it.....even better... :) :) :)

A quick search on the manufacturers website shows there are numerous types of tips avail for different aplications and a thin blade type holder that takes the same tips.

If the one I'm getting works I'll go for the blade type to compliment it....

Even though it wasn't the type I had in mind just look at those tips, threading too.......if I can afford them that is....... :lol:

http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/familyHDR.asp/r/I/relation/TI/cat/2800166/fnum/164/mapp/TG/app//GFSTYP/M/tool/I/type/2/lang/EN

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Offline SKIPRAT

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »
Great parting off video  nice to see the upside down parting tool in the rear toolpost  i am a big fan of this way of parting off, my current lathe does not have a rear toolpost (it will have soon) as  there is room on the topslide for one from past experience thats the way i prefer to do it .

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Offline Bernd

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2009, 08:42:59 PM »
Nice vid there websterz.

I use a rear post on my Sherline and Grizzly 9 X 19. Both work nice just like you showed. The one on my Logan lathe has to be front mounted and cut the conventional way. There's no way of mounting a rear tool post. If I set it up correctly it'll cut very nicely with automatic feed.

Again, nice vid and explation.

Bernd
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2009, 03:10:32 AM »
Darren

You should be OK. This is the one I have:

http://www.iscar.com/ProductLines/ProductLineSubDetail.asp/CountryID/1/ProductLineSubDetailID/717

or very near.

Got it with the S7. plus 40 or so tips.

Sh*t Hot. Have to get it absolutely square to axis on deep cuts tho. But then we should do that anyway.  ::)

Shouldn't I...  Yes, you should Dave ..

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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2009, 03:16:00 AM »
Yes you should Dave..... :ddb:

The one I have just bought will only do shallow cuts, how much I have no idea, but will prob part a 20mm bar ok.

I will still need to find another to take deeper cuts.

But as they say....you can't have too many tools...... :)
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2009, 03:25:03 AM »
Darren

It's the slurp. Beer and lathes don't mix. But I'm working on it.  Practice, practice, practice. :offtopic:

I think it's the groove on the top face of the insert. This seems to 'fold' the swarf in on itself. It don't make a tight curl like my other parting tools.
Bogs is spot on, give a good feed. I've noticed it works a lot better that way.

I'm off. Sausage butty time ..

Dave BC
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2009, 03:58:20 AM »
Bluechip, that looks just like mine though mine is SECO brand.  It sure does cut and does not mind being well fed,  but 'crikey' (as the Aussies say) if you make a mistake and the blade breaks it does not half cause a laundry emergency closely followed by a significant wallet droop.
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2009, 04:23:53 AM »
John

There's a fair number of makes along similar lines. I didn't get a laundry emergency, I run the Myford on a fairly fast speed usually to part off.

If I get a dig-in, the belts slip. But then I use the lathe mostly to part off ally & brass, if it's steel, I use a Sabre saw. Not too keen on trying to part off 2"+ alloy steel. On the few occasions I need to, I part off part way between centres, low speed, the saw the rest. Not recomended I know, but if I leave about 3/4"dia. to saw the practice seems harmless. So far ..

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Offline John Hill

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2009, 04:34:13 AM »
So far Dave I have only worked steel, a little cast iron and a few bits of unknown aluminium alloy.

The first breakage was because I moved the lever to select long instead of cross feed and the second was cutting 22mm mild,  I dont know what I did wrong but I usually take it in and out a bit to widen the cut and maybe I did not do that enough or I did it too much and allowed chips to get down beside the blade,  either way it went with a terrific bang and snapped those teeth (that hold the insert) off the end of the blade.
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2009, 04:38:53 AM »
I dont know what I did wrong
I do.  You didn't lock the carriage!  :doh:

Offline NickG

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2009, 05:13:39 AM »
I have no carriage lock on mine and don't lock the carriage for facing or parting ... is it something I should be doing?

How do people get the parting tool exactly square? I leave the tool post unclamped and with a silly angle then bring the carriage up so the tool touches the face of the chuck jaw and keep going until it looks parallel.

I've often thought it's a good idea to go in and out to widen it a bit to avoid rubbing, but now I try to get it as straight as possible and just go through it. I usually use about 200rpm (slowest none back gear) and for brass and aluminium, I seem to be able to use the slowest power feed which is good as it's nice and consistent. Can't do that on steel though, nearly broke the tool. My motor is powerful and the head is geared too so it'll break tools before any belts slip!

Nick

ps, why do rear tool posts with the parting tool other way up work better? Is it because it cant try to drag tool under?
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2009, 05:32:12 AM »
I have no carriage lock on mine and don't lock the carriage for facing or parting ... is it something I should be doing?
It does help.  What machine do you have?  It might have one you don't know about - Someone recently asked on the Chester forums about modding his DB7 to add a lock.  I pointed out to him it already has one, but it's not documented.

If you really haven't got a lock, some people disengage the long feed leadscrew from the spindle, and engage the half nuts to lock the carriage in place.

How do people get the parting tool exactly square? I leave the tool post unclamped and with a silly angle then bring the carriage up so the tool touches the face of the chuck jaw and keep going until it looks parallel.
I use the face of the chuck, but yes.

ps, why do rear tool posts with the parting tool other way up work better? Is it because it cant try to drag tool under?
Yes.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 05:35:12 AM by No1_sonuk »

bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2009, 06:23:47 AM »
Nick,

For parting AND facing (don't get the first letters muxed ip), the most important part is to get the saddle locked, plus the topslide (compound) if you are parting.

Without it being rigid you will be getting tapered cuts and putting side strain on the tooling. At one time, it was thought that having an angled face on the front of the parting tool would help enormously. But people were finding that it was snapping the blade off because it was putting a side load on the tip. The cutting face must be square to the blade and the blade has to be square to the job. I don't suffer from any of those problems because my toolpost is invariably always spot on square. Just drop the holder on, and the tip is square to the job.

The reason why rear parting SEEMS to work better is a bit of a conundrum. All sorts of theories have been come up with, but all can be disproved one way or another. My personal view is that the chips fall away rather than get jammed on the tip. But again, that is just a personal view.
I have never had to do it because I don't have any trouble parting at all, and never have had, even with smaller less rigid machines, just a little more care has to be taken the lighter you go with machinery or the smaller the parting tool. I regularly part off brass up to 1/2" diameter using a 0.025" (0.6mm) wide parallel tool.

Your heavy machine should be able to part off under power at a high speed on non ferrous, and a fairly fast hand feed with nasty ferrous materials.

A square, very sharp tool, on centre or a couple of thou above to allow for tool flex, lubrication and cooling, and a steady CONTINUOUS feed is always the way I tackle parting. Depending if it is a fast or slow feed, and of course material, I sometimes omit the lube and coolant. Brass, bronze, cast iron and some of the leaded steels, I don't bother. For ali and stainless, then definitely used.

John

Offline raynerd

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2009, 06:38:06 AM »
Quote
If you really haven't got a lock, some people disengage the long feed leadscrew from the spindle, and engage the half nuts to lock the carriage in place.

I regularly do this on my Boxford as there doesn`t seem to be any other inbuilt way of locking the carriage. I do it when parting because I read it somewhere  :med: and didn`t have a clue until I read this thread about side strain on the tool. When facing, I have to do it or the carriage runs away towards the tail stock as I put pressure on the face of the work - it pushes the carriage.

This thread has inspired me to purchase the indexable one from RDG so I`ll let you know how it goes - it was a little pricy at £28 so it better do a good job.

Chris

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2009, 06:50:13 AM »
Do I see a video coming Chris...... :poke:

Please.....
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2009, 07:41:36 AM »
haha - sure mate. I`ll try and get one done tonight - hopefully could be a video of it parting my new pulley for this boxford :) - 2 1/2 inch alley. It will probably be normally front mounted as I don`t have T-slots on my cross slide. I do want to eventually rear mount it but on the boxford it will mean machining and modifying the cross slide.

It was mentioned before that parting from the front upside down and in reverse would in effect be the same from running it forward and parting upside down from the rear. Of course, this seems logical but I have been told from words of wisdom that from the rear works better - he doesn`t know why but it does. Is this just his experience or has anyone else found the same?

Chris

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2009, 07:55:42 AM »
It's essentially the same, so it shouldn't be different.  However, rear-mounted would usually be in a fixed, dedicated tool post, that once set up can be left as-is.  The front/reverse/invert method would need some setting up every time.

Another issue is the chuck fixing.  If your chuck is threaded on, I would assume it might undo if you use the reverse option.

Offline NickG

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2009, 08:51:13 AM »
Thanks John, I've never thought of using lube and coolant parting ... silly me! I really could do with sorting the suds pump. I am the same, power feed for aluminium and brass seems to work but even the slowest speed seems a bit fast for steel.

No1_sonuk, my lathe is a harrison L5, don't think it has any dedicated method of locking, but I could engage the half nuts as mine has a separate shaft with a dog clutch for threading. With my other lathes I've had to lock it but maybe because this one is so heavy, I just leave it and it seems to stay put whilst facing / parting. Maybe I'd get even better results if I did lock it though. Can't remember how it's adjusted, may be able to turn grub screw on a gib into a lock.

Interesting anyway.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2009, 09:22:16 AM »
Nick, what do you think of the Harrison ?

It seems a common enough lathe that one may pop up at the right price....
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2009, 05:11:17 PM »
OK then, carriage must be locked? Obviously then the practice I saw recommended of widening the cut is not the go?

I am always careful to square the blade with respect to the ways by sighting the edge of the blade against the machined face where the travel steady mounts,  maybe I am a bit timid on the RPM as I usually use 340 unless I can see a good reason to go up or down.

Plan of action:

1. pour double scotch.
2. chuck up some 22mm mild.
2a. put chuck key in its proper place
3. square the blade.
3a position blade at cut off point
3b. lock saddle
3c. lock compound
4. select 340RPM
5. select a slow(ish) power feed
6. erect plastic splash shields
7. start coolant pump
8. direct coolant at tip of blade
8a. don safety goggles
8b. close chuck safety
9. start spindle
10. engage power feed
11. wait and watch
12 when blade breaks chuck back scotch to steady nerves, switch off and go upstairs.

Alternative:
Put workpiece in cold saw vice.
Douse blade with cutting fluid.
Start saw.
Lean on saw handle while thinking of red-head next door.
Switch off saw.
Release vice.
Carry workpiece to lathe and carry on.
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline NickG

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2009, 07:05:01 PM »
Darren,

I can't really fault the harrison at all, it was probably one of my best decisions ever! It is very heavy and takes up quite a lot of room, but I guess that is partly what makes it so good. Mine is an L5, 4 1/2" centre height, 24" between centres I think, (think it's actually  4 5/8" but they call it a 9" swing.) with a screwed spindle. It has power cross feed, quick change gearbox etc. Mine has 8 speeds from 34 rpm to 720, have hardly ever used the top speed though. They are all selectable via levers on top of headstock. Some of the later ones were 11" swing and had camlock chucks with bigger spindle bore, they also had 16 speeds, you could double everything up but this was via motor speed so you would need to retain 3 phase. Some of them had gap beds, mine doesn't, not too bothered though, makes it even more rigid. Oh, it also has a light and suds pump built in. Very solid machine, superb quality. I got mine for £650 with accessories, although the 3 jaw had had it, then I spent about £100 on motor. About £750 seems the going rate. A lot of them come from schools where they have had little use, some have been abused, some have hardly been touched. I remember at our old school, the boxford got all the hammer .. was still a great machine. There was a harrison too, but only ever saw somebody turning wood on it! There do seem to be quite a lot about, if I was being ultra picky, about the only thing I can think of that it doesn't have is a T slotted cross slide. That could be handy for boring between centres etc. The 11" with large spindle bore would also be better I guess, could make some pretty big stuff on that. A DRO system would also transform it!

When I was looking to change mine I was looking at all sorts from chinese ones to 2nd hand smart and brown, I actually bid on a couple of those but it wasn't to be. That's what you have as well as your mini lathe isn't it?

John   :)  I would select the slowest power feed! I know exactly what you mean though, I sawed things off today rather than setting up my parting tool, it was just faster and less unnerving!

 :lol: at red-head next door ... nice is she?!

Nick



Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline websterz

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2009, 07:09:21 PM »
You forgot "Share candid pix of red-head next door with good people at Madmodder"...
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2009, 08:19:34 PM »
Mine has 8 speeds from 34 rpm to 720, have hardly ever used the top speed though.

When I was looking to change mine I was looking at all sorts from chinese ones to 2nd hand smart and brown, I actually bid on a couple of those but it wasn't to be. That's what you have as well as your mini lathe isn't it?



Crickey, I hardly ever use anything lower than 750rpm, usually 2 or even 3,000 rpm....except when I decide to partake in the joy of parting off....!!

A friend of mine has the same lathe as yours and loves it, but then it's the only one he has ever used. Has made some nice stuff on it though.

You're right have a S&B model L, a 5C collet nose with a thread for chucks as an afterthought.  I love it, strong as an Ox, but I wouldn't recommend it as an only lathe due to no leadscrew. Anyone reading beware, Model L's with 5C collets are rare beasts, usually have S&B's own collet facilities which they are getting much harder to find.

I do rather fancy one of the other S&B's as they all have collet noses I believe ( and I have a set of collets to fit). There are a couple local but not for sale.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 08:23:56 PM by Darren »
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Offline NickG

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2009, 04:45:24 AM »
I must admit I was slightly put off when I first got it by the low speeds and tried to fit a two pole motor which would double up all the speeds, but they just didn't have the torque ... even if it was a bigger motor. So I got the 4 pole one, back down to original speed and it's amazing, I just don't need the high speed. I could turn 1/8" steel at about 350rpm and still get a really good finish. Most of the time it's just left at 465 rpm or what ever it is, 1 below top ...I forget the actual speeds.

They are a gorgeous piece of kit, I'm sure the one I was looking at had all the feeds etc.

I also looked at another thing called http://www.lathes.co.uk/hembrug/ . It was a tool room lathe made for dutch ordnance factory though ... what a piece of quality. There were some bits missing though and thought sort of making them, they'd be like rocking horse s**t to find!

So I am a big believer in quality old machines, I just couldn't find a nice old vertical mill for the price I was looking for. Tom Seniors etc are all well known and fetch too much money.

Nick
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 04:58:03 AM by NickG »
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2009, 05:14:24 AM »
I only use high rpms cos there are no machine feeds, hence my love of carbide tooling. But it works and the finish is excellent.

Nothing wrong with slow speeds, after all it's an industry standard machine. The feeds make it all work......

I am looking for another lathe, a Herbert with a mass of tooling was offered to me for £200, but it's just not what I'm looking for in a machine.
I will find one eventually.....hopefully an S&B if I'm lucky.

If you really want another mill and can house it forget the popular stuff, Toms and Harrisons, too expensive for what they are. You can get something sturdier for a fraction of the price.

Take my Beaver, 20mm cutter, 800rpm and it'll plough through an inch of steel with no complaints. Still a real eye opener every time I use it. I'm looking for a lathe like that.

I was offered a Colchester master recently with a VFD fore silly money, but it was too far gone. And it was too big, as much as I like big lumps of iron.
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Offline NickG

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2009, 06:33:36 AM »
Masters are big! Something like a chipmaster has good capacity but is relatively compact ... still weigh a ton mind you! Used those and students at uni and they were both superb machines.

Yeah, I'd love something like the mill you have. I always used to think small, but with good quality large machines you really can do everything on them. Having said that, the way my workshop / garage is now is just about right because i can still get a car in the middle ... not that I do at the moment but it could come in handy!
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2009, 07:09:55 PM »
My index parting tool arrived today. At 25mm sq the shank sure is sturdy.
A little on the large side but my thinking is to fix it directly to the top slide and not a tool holder. I gave it a go but had to wedge it to get the tip on centre.
I realise the angles are now way out, but it cut through this non-free cutting steel like butter....



The surprising thing is it didn't like the very low speeds I'm used to parting with. Whacked it up to higher speeds and it just ploughed through with no fuss at all. No need to be gentle it seems.



Now to think about how I'm going to mount it. Maybe let it have a little chat with the miller to correct the centre height, drill a vertical hole in the middle and use a T-bolt to clamp it directly to the slide......unless someone has a better idea?

It'll cut to a depth of 15mm, so will deal with a 30mm bar. Even with a 50mm bar it would only leave 20mm in the centre to hacksaw. But then most things we make have a hole down the middle anyway.... :D
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 07:12:36 PM by Darren »
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2009, 07:14:41 PM »
Darren, I think it would be a bit frustrating to have to take the tool post off every time you want to part off.  I probably cheat a little but I often use the parting blade in conjunction with the other tools to make a part which has grooves etc.

My parting blade holder was too big for the tool holder so my first job was to hack away at the expensive metal it was made of.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2009, 07:17:29 PM »
Yes I could do that for the very reasons you mention....I was just thinking that direct mounting might be sturdier for the horrors of parting?

But the convenience road in in the balance too......... :scratch:
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Offline andyf

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2009, 07:33:04 PM »
For minimum effort, you could just mill the underside down, drill a hole through it and clamp it down under your toolpost bolt. But it would be worth checking first to see if that arrangement would allow its shank  to be pushed up against the face of the chuck to get it perpendicular to the work, before clamping it down.
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2009, 07:48:11 PM »
Yes that would be the simplest idea....

John, it's only half a turn on the leaver to remove my QCTP and could be the same for the parting tool.
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2009, 02:44:52 AM »

The surprising thing is it didn't like the very low speeds I'm used to parting with. Whacked it up to higher speeds and it just ploughed through with no fuss at all. No need to be gentle it seems.


Low speed is one of the things people do wrong with parting, you have to be bold and make it have it, it may moan a groan a bit but you just have to grit your teethe and go for it.

Stew
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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2009, 05:03:42 PM »
Just to give you a little insight into what are supposedly classed as the best parting off and grooving tools in the world.

These are running under CNC, but they should work just as well manually.

Look at the speeds they are running at. Parting off is just another machining operation, and so you should run them at speeds you would normally cut at.

&NR=1

Now get your wallets out (or second mortgages), and you too can part off like that.


Bogs


Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2009, 05:22:45 PM »
Even with the wrong angles that was pretty much what I was finding with my new parting tool. I tried facing, reducing dia, grooving and parting and it was very smooth in all respects. Like I said before, it didn't like slow speeds but at around 1000rpm it sang.

I am very pleased with it and must get it set up properly. The tips are double ended and I've found a seller with them for a quid each so will get a stock in while I can.

I'd recommend it to anyone, but maybe not with a 25mm shank...... :ddb: But it was only £17 with P&P and we can always reduce the shank size....... :dremel:
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Offline websterz

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2009, 08:09:32 PM »
Thanks for the vid John. The trepanning operations were absolutely astounding!!  :thumbup:
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bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2009, 08:36:48 PM »
I have been sweating over this for the last 10 days, but I have now got my collection of parting off tools complete, at a cost of 32 squid, an absolute bargain.

I will now be able to part off up to just under 3" diameter.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2009, 04:24:54 AM »
I saw those being sold on Ebay....but couldn't find any info on the tips so gave it a wide birth.
Glad to see you did better than I managed... :thumbup:
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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2009, 04:46:52 AM »
Darren,

This is coming with five tips, which should last a fair while, even years, but with something like this, they are a standard sort of mount so tips should be no problem. All those long numbers for tips usually refer to the shape of the cutting faces, width, type of material etc. so as long it has the correct mounting and a parting tip shape, that will do me.

Ones like this are very few and far between, because it was made for a specific job, which is exactly what I needed, so I got it while I could.

John

bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2009, 12:07:31 PM »
The tool actually turned up today, and without further ado, I was into the shop, set it to centre height, then did a bit of metal wacking with it.

This is how I got on.



I forgot to mention that the spindle speed was at 1200, and really it needed to be fed at double the speed it was cutting at.

But we can't get everything right all the time.

BTW, this was with the supplied multi purpose tips. Not only can it part off and groove, it can also do normal right and left hand cutting, plus left and right hand facing work.
A jack of all tools.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2009, 12:38:18 PM »
Very nice John, very nice indeed......

I had a pressy in the post as well this morning, 30 parting tips. I only bought two boxes but the seller threw the third in for free.......what a nice man...!!

£0.99 a box....that's me happy for a while....just need to find a long reach holder now that uses the same tips....

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Offline 28ten

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2009, 03:05:27 PM »
The tool actually turned up today, and without further ado, I was into the shop, set it to centre height, then did a bit of metal wacking with it.

This is how I got on.



I forgot to mention that the spindle speed was at 1200, and really it needed to be fed at double the speed it was cutting at.

But we can't get everything right all the time.

BTW, this was with the supplied multi purpose tips. Not only can it part off and groove, it can also do normal right and left hand cutting, plus left and right hand facing work.
A jack of all tools.


Bogs

Oh i like that, can you get them for smaller machines?
If it ain't broke, i'll fix it until it is.

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2009, 03:30:53 PM »
Cynric,

These type very rarely come up for sale, as they are made by Mircona for customers requiring tools to do a specific job.

After looking for many months on ebay, one finally came up, and I made sure I wasn't outbid. Luckily I got it for 32 squid.

I suppose they must do them for the general market, but I would hate to think how much they would cost.


Bogs


Offline 28ten

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2009, 03:51:03 PM »
Cynric,

These type very rarely come up for sale, as they are made by Mircona for customers requiring tools to do a specific job.

After looking for many months on ebay, one finally came up, and I made sure I wasn't outbid. Luckily I got it for 32 squid.

I suppose they must do them for the general market, but I would hate to think how much they would cost.


Bogs



Maybe i should just try a standard index tool then. I just have a little job to do, parting off some 1 1/2 inch cast iron which should be fun.
If it ain't broke, i'll fix it until it is.

bogstandard

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Re: Index Parting tool
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2009, 05:19:20 PM »
Cynric,

I would suggest you set your tool a few thou high, lock everything up rigid, speed around 500 to 600 and just go for it. Keep the pressure on continuously.

Cast iron usually parts off very easily.


John