Author Topic: Slimline Rotary Table 150mm/6 inch (Read 34384 times)

raynerd · « **on:** October 08, 2009, 09:16:03 AM »

I`ve been absolutely dying to buy a rotary table for months now and have had the money sitting burning a hole in my pocket all this time. I wanted a 6 inch but the height on them put me off and users on other forums have said that a 6" vertex is just to high for a small X2 mill but on Alans advice at RDG, I have been waiting for their new slimline RT to come in stock. And as much as I love the advice in there, in true RDG stylee, the few days waiting for the shipment to arrive has turned into 8 weeks

but, they are finally here!
I`m very nearly on the vurge on buying one of these and from the picture they sure do look slimline! Can anyone see any possible issues? The price is £95. This is a picture to show the comparison with a 6" vertex:

Another few shots of the RT:

This is the blurb taken from their ebay page:
ONLY 60MM HIGH, TABLE RATIO 72:1, THIS QUALITY BY HBM ONLY FOR RDGTOOLS, NO OTHER TABLE IN THE MARKET OFFERS SUCH VERSATILITY, 150MM DIAMETER GROUND TABLE WITH 3 TEE SLOTS AND GRADUATED 360 DEGREES & 60 MINUTES, BASE IS GROUND WITH 4 SECURING SLOTS OND ONE GUIDE SLOT TO ALLOW REPEAT POSITIONING OF TABLE , TABLE LOCKING HANDLE IS REMOVABLE IF NEEDED, TABLE IS HOZIZONTAL & VERTICAL TABLE HAS 95MM CENTRE HIGH IN VERTICAL POSITION

Can anyone see problems with RT or would have any reservations before I part with my cash??

Darren · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2009, 09:38:52 AM »

It looks very nice Chris, the first thing that struck me was how small the handle was. Though that may not have any bearing on anything?

Gerhard Olivier · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2009, 09:48:59 AM »

Would it be stable enough if attached vertical??

It look a nice rt would certainly save a lot of space.

Gerhard

raynerd · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:33:23 AM »

Darren, I guess the handle could be changed to make it bigger? Geroli, that is a good consideration....I guess with the correct clamping and the points that are on the RT is should be quite sturdy when vertical.

Darren · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:46:29 AM »

If you felt the need to stiffen it up you could always use an angle block if you have room that is.

bogstandard · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:51:03 AM »

It already looks like you are trying to make excuses to buy it, rather than considering what it is up against.

Quote

I guess the handle could be changed to make it bigger

If it was any good, you shouldn't need to go modifying or making it more rigid, that should all be there from the start.

When the time eventually comes to do dividing work, and it will, you will be stuck. It looks to have some sort of basic vernier measurement on it, but I don't think that will be much use for real accurate dividing work.

The ratio 72 to 1, to me, as far as I know, isn't a standard that is normally used.

The Vertex (and the Soba) can be turned into a semi dividing head purely by buying the dividing setup for it, around 40 squid.

As mentioned before, working vertical and a bit of heavy milling with such a slimline foot, does look a bit no-no.

Also mentioned was the size of the handle, it is not condusive to giving a steady cutting pressure when using the RT for circular milling.

It looks and sounds good when you first see it, but when you look a little closer, a bit iffy.

Bogs

Darren · « **Reply #6 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:53:53 AM »

Some good observations there John, having read your post I think I would now avoid it personaly .....

bogstandard · « **Reply #7 on:** October 08, 2009, 11:33:30 AM »

In fact Darren, looking at the blurb and the RT, it looks even worse.

IT HAS BEEN MADE DOWN TO A PRICE.

Quote

TABLE LOCKING HANDLE IS REMOVABLE IF NEEDED

Why would you want to remove the handle? - because in certain positions it sticks up above the table, that's why. Bad design and made that way for cheapness. The Vertex method could have been used, there is plenty of room, but more machining and parts would be required.

Look at the vertical foot on the Vertex, it extends almost up to the table top, giving it more surface area and support for rigidity.

Look at happy boy, and it only extends half way. The reason being, it would require a little more metal and a couple more machining operations to get it to the correct height of just below the table top.
You can see exactly why it was done, skim the casting base, flip over and skim the casting top, job done.

When you look at things like this a little more closely, it is very easy to spot the difference between good and bad quality.

If you compared the Vertex to some of the up market ones, you would instantly be able to tell that even the Vertex was made more cheaply. You get what you pay for. You only have to look at your Japanese one Darren, the quality is superb compared to the ones we normally use.

John

Jasonb · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2009, 11:42:59 AM »

As John says if you need to do any dividing then you will have to buy another complete head, I've recently got the 6" Soba from Chronos in the set with centre and dividing plates, seems very well made and is a vast improvement over the small 4" one that I had before.

Jason

Darren · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2009, 11:45:46 AM »

Yes John I did notice the locking handle might need to come off in certain circumstances and that vertical foot looks a little small.

My other concern would be the overall mass is reduced. OK I realise if we want slim then some compromises must be made, but I have grown quite fond and appreciative of machine mass of late.

One other point, to make it slimmer I hope the inner workings have not also been reduced in mass/rigidity. When machining an arc for example there sure can be some forces to contend with. Which brings us back to the small handle.

Yep, that Japanese one you gave me sure feels nice to use.....

One day I'll use it for making something a little more special than gate hinges ...

raynerd · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:28:37 PM »

Hi, thanks all for your posts!!

I really like RDG and the people that work in there but I am certainly no salesman for them! I have one of these new ones put aside for me, I may very well look like a fool but after 8 weeks of waiting I may go for the 6" Vertex after all! I never considered the dividing head fixture that the vertex offered. I also had to wait as I could post any information on here regarding what they looked as I`ve only just got the info myself - I just knew they were going to be slimmer.

Do you think that a 6" vertex will fit with an X2?

Darren · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:51:46 PM »

Max. Distance spindle to table 270mm for the X2

Stick the 6" RT on vertically taking account of the foot, you loose say 100mm

Stick a collet holder in the spindle, say another 100mm ?

Add your cutting tool 50mm?

That leaves you 20mm of working room, add the stock, say a 20mm bar and you have 10mm left or there-a-bouts.

I'd say no, the x2 seems a tad on the small side for such things. That's prob why they made 4" RT's and then you won't gain very much.

Also consider that the head on the x2 will be at max height which is also the least stable position I guess.

Edit, we are only talking a 20mm bar here, think about bigger things like dials or gears...... no hope I don't think?

bogstandard · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:34:35 PM »

Don't Vertex or Soba do a 4" one with the dividing head attachment? I thought I saw one somewhere.

Bogs

raynerd · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:57:26 PM »

John, they certainly do the 4" RT and RDG stock it as well: http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Rotary_Table.html

I`ve not seen the Dividing head attachment specifically for the 4", are they even specific for each size RT or is it just a standard dividing attachment.

I`m free to pop in after work tomorrow, so go a whole day to decide what to go for. They also stock a 4" no brand one at £55.... is the dividing attachment and the vertex name worth the extra £50? .... lol, 8 weeks and I`ve ended up going full circle!

Chris

spuddevans · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:14:21 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on October 08, 2009, 03:57:26 PM

They also stock a 4" no brand one at £55.... is the dividing attachment and the vertex name worth the extra £50? .... lol, 8 weeks and I`ve ended up going full circle!

Hi Chris, I have the 4" no-name one( the one that's just shy of 60 quid), and I got it from RDG. Now dont get me wrong, it does work just fine, and for the money is not a bad rotary table, but ( and you all knew that a "but" was coming ) it is not that smooth in rotation; also the locking mech' is just one brass screw that presses into the side of the table, this has the tendancy to push the table off level a fraction which will obviously have an effect on any sort of accurate work. If you compare that to the Vertex's locking mech' you can see it has 2 locking levers that apply pressure downwards thus keeping the table level.

The cheaper one has a resolution of 1 turn = 10 degrees, whereas the Vertex has a resolution of 1 turn = 4 degrees. The vertex also has a 2MT hole in the center, that too can be very useful, whereas the one I have has only a M6 threaded hole at the center.

All in all I wish now that I had saved up a bit more to get the Vertex, not that the rotary table I have will have no use, I intend modding it to attach a Stepper motor to be 4th axis in my future CNC conversion.

Another point to keep you thinking, you can get a Air Spring conversion kit for the X2 ( I have it on mine ) that includes an extended Z-axis rack, I think it gives an extra couple of inches of working height. ( see here for picshttp://www.jzcomputer.com/LongRackPics/ShockConversion.htm )

Hope this helps you

Tim

bogstandard · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:21:40 PM »

They do sell them, try down here, just make sure that the model is the same Vertex one that is listed for the conversion. A HV4.

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.rdgtools.co.uk%2facatalog%2fRotary_Table.html&WD=plates%20dividing&PN=Rotary_Table_Accessories_.html%23a142332#a142332

You might find that the unamed cheaper dividing set for a 6", above the Vertex one listed, should fit as well.

Bogs

raynerd · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2009, 03:04:12 AM »

Cheers John, I`ll certainly be going for the 4" vertex.

Tim, my X2 is the chester conquest and the Air Spring conversion is done as standard on this model or as they put it "Gas spring head return". http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm

Thanks for your advice.

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2009, 10:55:08 AM »

Well I stood them side by side this morning, the new slimline 6" and the vertex 4" and I`ll tell you that I didn`t come away with either. I really really didn`t know where to put my money! Weight of both was equal - the slimline is super slimline but it damn weighty and feels solid. The clamp really seemed to lock the table. Apparently the table lock clamps and engagues the table in such a way that it cannot lift so it will hold it down like the vertex. The slimline has more mounting points and looked to be more solid mounting certainly equal to the vertex.

I was much more impressed with the slimline than I thought I was going to be and in comparison, the 4" looks absolutely tiny compared with the extra 2" that the 6" slimline gives you.

I`m quite happy with the rest of the build but the reason I did not go with my instincts and buy is because I would like, if possible, if someone could explain a bit more about the consequences of the small handle and vernier like reading for the measurement handle. The slimline does not have any readings on the handle, all the fine readings are carried out on the markings between the table and the side. You can see on this picture:

Is this going to be less accurate? Also the blurb reads: "360 DEGREES & 60 MINUTES" does this mean that I can`t measure seconds? - is this a problem, can you even be as accurate as to measure seconds on such a small RT?

Any help and advice appreciated. I would like a 6" which is why I am tempted but the size of this thing really looks like it would suit an X2!

Chris

jim · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2009, 11:08:20 AM »

i can only comment about the 4" Vertex one, HV4 i think. i spent a while looking, lost in the descriptions!
you can get the dividing plates for this one ( i had them, but realised i'd not use, so sold them).

you can engage/disengage the feed wheel just by lifting a lever, this makes it easy and quick to rotate the table.
the locks for the table lock well.
90-1 ratio
i've had a look inside and it does look very well made

only complaints are
small capacity, but that wouldn't be too bigger problem, if you mounted it on parrallels when needed
can be arkward getting clamps on ( not much room )

on balance, worth what it cost

Davo J · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:47:04 PM »

Hi,I am not sure were you are in the UK but these rotary tables seem to be alot cheaper than the price you quoted. Even including dividing plates and tailstock they seem to be cheep.
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml%3fhttp%253A%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2fChronos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_45%2ehtml%26CatalogBody&WD=table%20rotary&PN=Soba_Rotary_Tables_and_accessories%2ehtml%23a110242#a110242

The 6" vertex is only 20mm higher horizontal at 80mm compared to 60mm of the slimline and vertical centre hight is only 5mm higher at 100mm compared to 95mm of the slimline.
Here is a link to the sizes
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=R006#

The collar on the handle of the vertex is graduated with readings down to 10 seconds.
Hope this helps you out a bit.Davo

Davo J · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:37:14 PM »

Hi
I don't think he has made up his mind as yet, or he would have bought it while he was at the shop. It is probably a big purchase to him and wants’ to get it right the first time. So many things come into it like the size, minutes, second’s horizontal height, and vertical height, etc. I understand it can get confusing sometimes which one to buy when it's your first. Maybe a bit more education on minutes and seconds would help him out with his purchase? There is nothing wrong with asking questions on a forum after all that’s what it's here for, those that want to take/waste time to answer questions, answer. Those that don’t want to take/waste time to answer, don’t.
Davo

NickG · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:03:05 AM »

My first thoughts are the same as many posts. I would be dubious as to how the clamp works and why is the scale not on the handwheel. The reason for the small handwheel is so that you don't have to mount it overhanging the milling machine table to enable rotation. Some have that design flaw, you have to mount it on something or overhanging. Not sure whether that is the case with the vertex.

Look at this one and read the review:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-110mm-Deluxe-Rotary-Table-453684.htm

Nick

Darren · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:07:51 AM »

Chris, honestly I would stay away from that slimline RT.

What you need is a bigger mill mate, and a 6" or bigger RT ...... I know where you can get the former ..

Davo J · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:44:12 AM »

I suggested to Chris by email, that he might be able to put a 50mm spacer in between the column and pivot plate. I don't have one of these mills to look at other than looking at the Grizzly manual/parts diagram. Does anyone know if it has been done (links etc), or can be done to that type of mill? If it is possible, it will give him the extra room he needs to fit the Vertex 6" or Soba 6" rotary tables.
Davo

raynerd · « **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:49:18 PM »

Quote from: Darren on October 12, 2009, 10:07:51 AM

Chris, honestly I would stay away from that slimline RT.

What you need is a bigger mill mate, and a 6" or bigger RT ...... I know where you can get the former ..

Don`t tease me

I am going to stay away. I will be purchasing a 4" vertex.

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Author Topic: Slimline Rotary Table 150mm/6 inch (Read 34384 times)

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