Author Topic: Windows 7  (Read 18265 times)

bogstandard

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Windows 7
« on: October 21, 2009, 04:12:46 PM »
Don't worry lads, I didn't want to put Stew's post off topic any more than necessary. So I have continued it here.

I did exactly the same thing with Vista, and within a couple of hours, I was up and running XP again.

That proved it's non worth within ten minutes of trying it, and I think my decision not to use it was correct.

But I had the same dilemma when going from 98 to XP, and it was six months before I was shown how to configure it to my satisfaction, before I changed over to it permanently, and XP is now a very respected operating system.

So what are we to do, stay with XP for the rest of time? If you don't dip your finger in and try it, you will never know what it tastes like.

There is too much heresay when a new system comes out, with everyone and his dog saying it will never work, from the mouths of people who have never even tried it.

Please don't go spouting on about other operating systems, and how good they are, they are almost all as bad as each other with software incompatibilities or non existance of software to run on it.

I have a friend who runs Linux (and he is the cheapest cheapskate I have ever met), and has been from it's outset (only because it was free when it all started), and he has struggled ten times as much as myself with my operating system.
If I was him, by now, I would have self inflicted many bullet holes in my head.

My personal view is that Linux is an ideal technical operating system, perfect for technical applications, not one for running every type of software imagineable, which Microsoft software does a reasonable job of, plus almost all software producers support it.

No matter how much you hate Microsoft and it's leader, without it, I am sure we wouldn't be discussing things such as this. We would still be using DOS, or some other horrendous method of using a computer, or even that mass home computers never came into existance.


John

Offline sorveltaja

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 05:22:31 PM »
I agree, that microsoft has done a major work developing its operating systems. But nowadays it suffers from serious mammoth-syndrome(as does most Linux-distros). Multimedia this, multimedia that.

I've been used/tried many variations of Linux, but it just isn't possible(yet) to run all the Windows-based programs on Wine(emulator), that I feel comfortable to use. Maybe some day...

Today, I still use Windows 2000. Previous OS was Windows 98.

To me, Windows 2000 has proved, during many years of (hard)use, to be a rock solid operating system. Not necessarily as it is, as I have applied (many)dozens of hacks to improve its stability.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 05:29:08 PM by sorveltaja »

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 05:37:46 PM »
It's a good point that Microsoft has made the computer age available to us all really, but, like BS I tried Vista and was not happy with it, for a start it wanted me to upgrade all my favourite programs that had served me faithfully for years, I don't want the newer versions or the expense that comes with it, so back to XP I went ........... and have been a happy bunny since

I know things move fast in the Computer trade but really, when's the best time to buy a new computer or a new program .................. probably in about 3 months time ........... etc ................ 

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 05:51:05 PM »
There is nothing out there that I need windoze 7 for, my old progs work fine and I'm not buying any new ones just to keep Bill happy.

I have Vista on this laptop and it's been my biggest mistake ever, only there are no drivers avail to run this laptop on xp.
I wish I could afford to drop this laptop in the bin and buy a new one that the manufactures have bothered to make drivers for XP, most do I believe.

Vista sucks big time, certainly not about to throw cash at 7. Linux is a joke at best, but it has it's place in the server world.

Why did they call it 7 anyway?
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Offline sorveltaja

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 06:05:27 PM »
The operating system is like a tool; if it is too heavy to handle, or has too many bells and whistles in it, how can it be usable for serious work?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 06:09:09 PM by sorveltaja »

Offline tinkerer

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 06:49:44 PM »
I waited until the computer with 98 died and then bought one with XP Pro and have been happy with it. I will decide on 7 when it has been proven or this one dies. I still use Office 97 and it makes people with 08 configure so I can view their attachments. I guess I will need to upgrade that one day.
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Offline mklotz

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2009, 06:58:12 PM »
Quote
Why did they call it 7 anyway?

Because that's how many deadly sins there are?
Regards, Marv

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Offline shred

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 10:43:30 PM »
Supposedly it's the 7th major release of Windows.  Theres a theory in the industry called "every other one sucks", which holds true for Microsoft desktop Windows OS'es

Win 7 - good
Vista - Bleccch
Win XP - good
Win ME -  :bugeye:
Win 98 - OK
.. and so on.

If you get a choice between Vista and 7, go for 7.  If you have Vista and are sick of it, look hard at 7 if you can get it for a good price.  If you've got Win XP and are happy with it, stay there.

I've got PC's with pretty much everything on them, including Win 7, Vista, XP, 2000, 98, ME, Linux and right on through Amiga OS and Atari TOS...

I use Linux (server), Win 7 (notebook/tablet-- got off Vista ASAP) and XP (desktop and CNC PC)
 

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2009, 12:41:05 AM »
Thanks Shred, maybe you have changed my mind  :scratch:

Certainly sick of Vista and long for XP once again ..... be interesting to see how John gets on with 7?
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2009, 05:54:48 AM »
I'm coming to this discussion from a background of using and configuring desktops and servers for work.

When I got a new laptop (Toshiba Tablet PC) for work, I did not even boot into the installed Vista OS, I immediately booted up the XP Downgrade disk.
XP has been a solid platform and we still recommend to our clients they use XP machines where possible. We can work with Vista machines, but it doubles our installation time depending on which features of our software they use. I will never install Vista on any computer I own.

I have had several release candidates of Windows 7 installed on different pieces of hardware, and it was already more stable and compatible in Beta than Vista has been in my experience. I'm not saying it is perfect, and I will not recommend it for production systems at least until the SP1 release, but it is already better than Vista, and that is not hearsay, it is from personal experience.

Regarding Linux being a joke, I disagree. For 70% of the population who use computers only for surfing the web, email and word processing, with a little multimedia watching, a recent Linux Distro such as Ubuntu or Linux Mint is as much as they will ever need. And in a lot of instances, they would hardly notice the difference between this distro and Windows. It's not for everyone, but neither is it a joke. And for servers, especially webservers, it is unequalled. Ask Brass_Machine what he is considering using after some of the recent difficulties on this site........

All IMHO of course. :thumbup:

bogstandard

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 07:41:16 AM »
Spy,

Many thanks for your input on this issue. In fact I am going to take your advice and wait for the first main upgrade before installing it and giving it a run for it's money.

I personally think that this will be the OS for home computing in the future, as supposedly it can do away with some of the cumbersome inputs. I think once the hardware people pick up on it, and start to produce the required monitors at a reasonable price, then it will really take off.

With regards to Linux, I hope you didn't think it was me that was knocking it. This is from my original posting.

Quote
My personal view is that Linux is an ideal technical operating system, perfect for technical applications, not one for running every type of software imagineable.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 07:48:41 AM »
Tim,

I was only referring to Linux for home use, I've tried it several times over the years and unless you are computer geek or only want to browse the net then I found it very limiting.
I also found the latest releases ran my machines at around half the speed of XP.

I do understand that for server use or specific applications it excels though.
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 07:52:52 AM »
Spy,

Many thanks for your input on this issue. In fact I am going to take your advice and wait for the first main upgrade before installing it and giving it a run for it's money.

I personally think that this will be the OS for home computing in the future, as supposedly it can do away with some of the cumbersome inputs. I think once the hardware people pick up on it, and start to produce the required monitors at a reasonable price, then it will really take off.

With regards to Linux, I hope you didn't think it was me that was knocking it. This is from my original posting.

Quote
My personal view is that Linux is an ideal technical operating system, perfect for technical applications, not one for running every type of software imagineable.
Bogs

No worries Bogs, I was replying to another poster who stated Linux was a joke. And I don't take things personally, i just work with Linux and on netbooks for kids and even some silver surfers, the simple interfaces can inspire confidence, and I have personally seen this in a lot of cases.

On Windows 7, it has a virtual XP feature which means that to programmes designed to work with XP and not updated, it acts as a virtual XP machine, so older programs should run fine. I've not tested this extensively yet, but this looks like it may solve a lot of backwards compatibility issues which have turned people off Vista. And the touchscreen interface works  very well........



Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 07:59:26 AM »
Tim,

I was only referring to Linux for home use, I've tried it several times over the years and unless you are computer geek or only want to browse the net then I found it very limiting.
I also found the latest releases ran my machines at around half the speed of XP.

I do understand that for server use or specific applications it excels though.

Hi Darren,

    I presume you meant Stef? Tim will laugh his legs off to think we are being confused!

No problem, I guess I am a geek, but there have been major improvements in user friendliness in different distros recently. Still, it is not for everyone and that is cool, we don't all want to be the same do we?

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 08:17:43 AM »
 Nice graph ... I think I'm in the same place on there  :lol:

If you can suggest a distro that has finally caught up AND become user friendly I would certainly look into it. Last one I tried was Ubuntu about 8mths ago, forget which release but I could take a look if it mattered.  Just too many hardware issues and it ran painfully slow on 3 different laptops I tried. It was hard to load as well, just kept crashing during the install.

I do hope they make it eventually though ....  :thumbup:
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 08:38:10 AM »
Nice graph ... I think I'm in the same place on there  :lol:

If you can suggest a distro that has finally caught up AND become user friendly I would certainly look into it. Last one I tried was Ubuntu about 8mths ago, forget which release but I could take a look if it mattered.  Just too many hardware issues and it ran painfully slow on 3 different laptops I tried. It was hard to load as well, just kept crashing during the install.

I do hope they make it eventually though ....  :thumbup:

I have found Linux Mint 7 to be a nice release, but I'm used to Linux. It would be nice to get a fresh perspective on that one from you if you get a chance to have a look at it. It is Ubuntu Based, but with better handling of multimedia etc.

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 09:00:15 AM »
Downloading now ...  :thumbup:
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 09:43:36 AM »
Tim, ............
    I presume you meant Stef? Tim will laugh his legs off to think we are being confused!

Har-de-har, har, thunk ( sound of legs dropping off ) :lol: Thanks Darren, you just made my day, how to lose about 9stone in one swoop  :thumbup:

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 01:58:59 PM »
OK you got me, after spending most of the day working out in the garden, well it was sunny today ....  :ddb: I have burnt the Linux Mint 7 iso download to a CD and booted from it.
At the mo I'm running in demo mode from the CD, ie it's slow ..... erm except it's not slow at all ..... I'm impressed  :clap:

It all went without a hitch, not a single issue to this point. Not looked properly as yet, but it has Firefox already installed and connected to the net in a flash .... WOW .... :jaw:

 
What's more it's found my Bluetooth and switched it on with no input from me, Vista couldn't find it despite many attempts on my part to make it work, inc software a update from the manufactures website.

Looking good so far, this is nothing like the last time I tried Linux ....

Thanks Stef, I take my comments back humbly red faced .... Your kick up the bum is just what I needed  :thumbup:


Not 100% convinced yet, I'll let you know how I get on ......  :dremel:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 02:18:14 PM »
It's a damn site quicker than Vista and I'm still on the CD, not loaded to the hard drive.

There is also an awful lot of software included, in fact just about everything I need ....

I'm impressed ....  :clap:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 02:32:39 PM »
Well I'll be slapped across the face with a wet kipper, 

Using Gmail of late I've had to revert back to the old basic set-up, no colour, no fancy gizmos etc because with their latest incarnation I just couldn't get it to load before it timed out

With Linux in full mode Gmail is loading in a flash, it's instant...

Vista was a memory hog, it never released memory when programs were shut down. Even on boot-up with no open programs it hogged 65% of my laptops 2Gb memory.

I've been playing about with Linux, opening this and that etc and currently it's using 26% of memory.

Conclusion, Vista is dire .... I hadn't realised just how bad it was .....

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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 02:57:45 PM »
Your a dam good salesman Darren  :coffee: ................. I'm currently downloading Linux Mint 7, though it's got an hour or two to go yet (1Gb Broadband is as good as it gets here  :zap: )

I'll try and give it a go at the weekend.

CC

Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 04:14:11 PM »
Glad you're liking it Darren, it is the one I tend to recommend for Linux newbies now as it is a nice gentle introduction to it. Plus it is based on Ubuntu, which we use as our server distro too, so I'm familiar with it's CLI too.

I've installed it on the laptop my wife uses for her email and browsing and she loves its speed, she doesn't miss Windows at all. I have to use all three flavours (Win, Lin and Mac) for work so for me it is just what falls to hand first.

CrewCab, I hope you are as impressed as darren is with it.

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 04:32:34 PM »
One issue has cropped up,

I loaded Skype and called up John/Bogs
Can type to each other ok, but no voice calling. Seems to be my sound, looked into it as best I could but couldn't seem to resolve the issue.

As I'm only running off the CD I'm thinking it could be a simple as needing to install linux to my HD.
Any tips would be really appreciated  :thumbup:
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 04:41:34 PM »
One issue has cropped up,

I loaded Skype and called up John/Bogs
Can type to each other ok, but no voice calling. Seems to be my sound, looked into it as best I could but couldn't seem to resolve the issue.

As I'm only running off the CD I'm thinking it could be a simple as needing to install linux to my HD.
Any tips would be really appreciated  :thumbup:

Have you got any sound at all? It might be resolved when you do a full install and enable all the repos so your soundcard can be recognised and the driver package can be installed. Check for any issues with your specific sound card too, although I have not been able to find many cases of this.

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 04:47:36 PM »
Seems to be no sound at all,

I'll try loading Linux to the HD alongside Vista for now?
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 04:54:37 PM »
When you install, it should give you the option to install on a partition created from some free space on the hard drive, but it's been a while since I've done it so might be a little out of date. Should be no problem dual booting though, you choose at boot up whether to boot to Win or Lin. Go for it, and if you have no joy with the sound, give me a shout and I'll see what I can do to help.

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 05:38:14 PM »
Well that was quite simple and painless  :thumbup:

Linux Mint 7 is now running from a CD, Firefox is working just fine .............. OK, lets not get giddy, one step at a time  :beer:

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 05:48:37 PM »
Easy init ... I was quite surprised ..
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tumutbound

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 06:04:30 PM »
As supporting UNIX and Linux is what I do for a living, I've managed to avoid ever having to run Windows on my own computers.
As I now have a CAD package that only runs on Windows, I'll be buying a new PC and installing  Windows 7.

It's good to see the positive responses to Windows 7 here.

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2009, 06:17:40 PM »
Loaded onto HD, still no sound, can't seem to find out why it's all just a tad too new to me I guess?
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bogstandard

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2009, 06:40:08 PM »
Darren,

Sound and printer drivers were designed to make computer operators turn cannibalistic.

It has taken all day to get all my drivers sorted.


John

Offline Tinker

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 01:01:31 AM »
Seems to function rather well here too.  Except that it thinks my screen is limited to 800x600.  Kinda makes things a little ugly.  OTOH, I got sound on the first try.

Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 03:11:19 AM »
Hi Darren,

Have a look at this thread, the last answer might be what you need.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-mint-84/no-sound-in-lm7-761062/

Generally a good site for help with pretty much any distro.

Stefan.

EDIT: To be fair, I've had problems with that audio controller on WinXP machines too, the joys of IT support.

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 05:28:18 AM »
Thanks,

I delved in and switched everything on, quite a few were off, but still nothing

I found this

the way I got sound working was while I was using linux mint 6. It refused to do the sound thing constantly until I found a bit on hp's site. As a consequence I added these 2 lines to my alsa-base.conf file
options snd-hda-intel model=hp-m4
options snd-hda-intel enable_msi=1

So I had a search for the confg file in question and it seems it's not installed?
Next I tried to install it

But I get a message "Could not find package alsa-base.conf"

TBH I'm getting a bit out of my depth here ...  :(
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Offline Stefan Pynappels

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 06:04:35 AM »
Ok Darren, I'm going to start a new thread to avoid pulling this one further and further off-topic. I'll do my best to help you, it is not terribly difficult to do, but work is a bit crazy today, so it may be a while between posts.

New thread is here:  http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2022.0

We'll have you using Linux command line in no time at all!

Offline Darren

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 06:20:16 AM »
Thanks Stefan,

I was thinking about starting a new thread, not fair on this one  :thumbup:
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