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Author Topic: Another Swinging Threading Tool  (Read 36553 times)

Offline Darren

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Another Swinging Threading Tool
« on: December 19, 2009, 08:54:22 PM »
I thought I'd have a go at making one of those swinging threading tools ...

Started with a block of 2" sq, another one of those can't hacksaw metals  :doh:

Not even going to attempt my HSS steel cutter on this material so knocked it into shape with this



For the other side I used a 12mm single insert cutter. I was a bit dubious about a single tip cutter causing chatter, but I needn't have worried as it cut this just fine.





These little cutters are superb, chew through at quite a rate whilst hardly heating the stock at all. The main lump barely gets warm to the touch.
The larger one was taking a 15x10mm section of mild steel off in one pass, no problem.

A little more shaping and then a locating slot was produced.



Section of ordinary mild steel for the swinging bit



Once shaped the two pieces were clamped so the pivot hole could be drilled as one for proper alinement.



Reamed for a clean bore with whatever size this reamer is? No idea as the markings have gone.



I have got a little further but no pictures, made the pin and a little cleaning up. Maybe tomorrow if I get the time I can finish this one and give it a try out.....  :ddb:

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Offline chuck foster

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 09:04:53 PM »
looking good darren...............won't be long and you will have another usefull bit of tooling  :thumbup:

chuck  :wave:
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Offline andyf

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 09:12:29 PM »
Hi Darren,

I'm not sure that the ledge over the top of the swinging part has any useful function. It might be a disadvantage on coarse threads, or fine threads on large diameters as on telescopes etc, by stopping the swinging part moving high enough. Also, if it wasn't there, you could manually flip the toolholder up out of the way to test the fit of a nut on the thread being cut, rather than running the saddle back a long way to get sufficient room.

Just my two penn'orth, seeking views before I set to and make one myself.

Andy
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 09:15:47 PM »
Hi Andy, I did reshape it a bit to give more room. The only reason I left it on was to stop the swinging bit flopping around all over the place. To keep it more together like.

But I take note of what you say about trying a nut on the thread, good point !! Maybe some more doctoring to come then  :dremel:

Thanks  :thumbup:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 09:16:05 PM »
Weeehu, you are dangerous with those big cutters. No metal is safe from you. :headbang:

Two days for a swing threading tool? Now that's fast.  :ddb:  :ddb:  Hope it works out good for you Darren.

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 09:19:35 PM »
Honestly Bernd, these cutters eat metal at a phenomenal rate ...!!

Even the hard stuff as I'm using here ..

Andy, even with the top bit the tool tip not only swings up but it also move back by around 15mm. But even so, I may take the top off as you suggest, we shall see  :thumbup:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 01:33:28 PM »
It works  :worthless:

Rather well actually  :)

 :worthless:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 04:21:55 PM »
Ok I've finished cleaning up the tool, well as much as I'm going to as it's only a tool  :)

Knocked the top off as suggested by Andy ..



Milled a 10mm tool slot



Drilled three holes for the tool clamping screws, M4 in this case but having done it they seem a tad on the small side so I'd suggest M5.

Then I needed to match the keyway slot on the main part to the swinging section.
Rather than fuss around measuring and then getting it wrong  :doh: I did it this way ... lined up the cutter to the main body slot and then pushed the swining section gently by hand into the rotating cutter.



Once I had the slot started I did it properly  :headbang:



Bang on, rather unsurprisingly



I then cut a key from some 12mm round stock, won't bore you with those pic's  :ddb:

All the bits now made it's time to give it a go ...
Please bear in mid the HSS threading tool is not at it's best as it needs resharpening and it's overhanging far too much. Also the swinging tool holder is set over at an angle due to the angle the HSS has been ground at. Even so it worked really well.
I will invest in a new tungsten cutter for this tool after the commercial period.

A 1.5mm pitch at 20mm dia. Not the best picture in the world, sorry. It did come out OK.



Here's a better one, 2.5mm pitch on the same bar ...




Now it's going to be hard to convey just how well this tool works and how much easier it makes cutting threads compared to the "proper" way of doing it.

With no winding out and back in again, no threading dial to watch out for and no engaging/dis-engaging the lead screw, this really is a simple way of threading.
If you have a little time to spare then this is one tool that will gain that spare time back again, and then some, in due coarse.

Here are some more pictures after I cleaned it up a little.









You may have noticed that I didn't use a bronze bush as Bogs did. Not being a high speed device I gathered something simpler would suffice.
Also note the front of the swinging too lholder overhangs the main body in an attempt to help keep swarf away.

You may have also noted that the keyway has stuck itself in the swinging part and not the main base section. This is not by design, that's where it chose to be  :)
I shall probably alter this with some Locktite ... :dremel:






Credits & acknowledgements:
Mike Cox:        for the original concept
Andyf:            for bringing this to our attention on this board
John/Bogs:      for building and proving the first prototype

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Rob.Wilson

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2009, 04:38:50 PM »
Hi Darren

Great job  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: great photo build too,, i must have ago and make one

Regards Rob
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Offline andyf

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2009, 04:45:16 PM »
Nice one, Darren  :clap: :clap:

And I see from the photos that it will even do the job without the tool clamp screws in place  :lol:

Andy
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 05:28:42 PM »
You did what?  :jaw: (I did it this way ... lined up the cutter to the main body slot and then pushed the swining section gently by hand into the rotating cutter.) Didn't you consider that a bit dangerous?
I want a picture of your hand to see if all fingers are still attached.  :lol:

Glad the tool worked out for you. I still don't know if it would work in my Logan with all that backlash. Guess I'm just going to have to make one and see.

Thanks for sharing Darren.

Bernd

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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 06:27:38 PM »
I just knew someone was going to pick me up on that ....  :doh: I almost put a disclaimer in .......  :coffee:

Please bear in mind you'd have to try pretty damned hard to get anywhere near the cutter in this case as it was well hidden. The swing bit was clamped with its screw and could only be pushed open if anywhere at all. In all honesty I did put some thought into it first as I do like my fingers as they are.

As it was there was nothing to it, cept perhaps I'd say don't be so silly and try this at home boys and girls ......  :thumbup:

You know this tool could be made simpler with a bit less machining and a smaller lump to start with. Having used it it doesn't need to be as big as this.

If only I could draw  :doh:
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 06:37:23 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 06:45:32 PM »
Like this .... cut off everything above the red line. Would save a whole load of machining as the cutter does not need any re-enforcement when it's lifted up as any (small) load is the other way. Not that it climbs hardly any height anyway.

You just don't need the top bit  :thumbup:

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 02:19:51 AM »
VERY well done, & shown Darren!  :clap:

Thank you......  :thumbup:

David D
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 06:44:11 AM »
You've made a real good job of that Darren  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Your mill and lathe will really start to pay you off now.

Have fun

Stew
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
Darern,

There you go, that picture will work quite nicely. What other improvements do think could be done to the tool to make it smaller?

I'm wondering if the material where the slot is, on the part you marked with a red line, could be partially eliminated?

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 10:51:15 AM »
Do you mean the bottom "ledge" Bernd.

You could reduce this but in my mind mass is everything, esp under larger cutting forces such as threading.

Incidentally Bernd, I think on a machine where there is excessive backlash is where this tool will really shine.... :thumbup:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 04:27:33 PM »
Yes, Darren, that's were I was thinking, the bottom "ledge". Now that you mention the cutting forces though it's probaly not a very good idea.

I still don't think we are on the same wave length about that backlash. So lets see if I can get at what I mean.

When you take the cut going toward the chuck on a right hand thread there is no backlash. Ok.
Now you stop the lathe and reverse the motor. At this point on my lathe the chuck will turn approximatley 1/4 turn before the lead screw reverses. I can see that the tool would raise up a bit at this point. But on my lathe the chuck will turn one full revolusion before the carriage actually starts in reverse. The tool would have to totaly come out of the cut on a very course thread.

What I saw in my mind was that the tool would get hung up in the groove just cut. Now if the tool can travel all the way out of the cut I guess it works. That was the one reason I questioned the tool Bogs built. Since it was limited to the up travel on it's rerverse path.

The only way I can prove this is to actually build one of these tools and try it out on my machine. Right now I have no ambition to do any type of metal work. So I guess it will have to wait.

I hope I explained it clearly enough. If not oh well, it's been a great disscusion producer.  :ddb:

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 04:35:26 PM »
I understand what you mean Bernd, mine jumps a thread before moving along and I have little backlash. To jump two or more before the leadscrew gets going shouldn't harm anything.

As long as you leave a little run in on the next cut to take the slack up you should be fine  :thumbup:

If you were around the corner you could borrow this one to try, but hardly worth sending it back and forth with the cost.

It will be fine Bernd, I'm sure of it  :thumbup:
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 05:38:02 PM by Darren »
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Offline NickG

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 05:32:38 PM »
Nice work there Darren, thread looks really good.

 :thumbup:

Nick
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Offline 75Plus

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 10:20:08 PM »
I have a question! Could a QCTP holder be the beginning, i.e. base, for a this? There is a US supplier, CDCO Machinery, that currently has BXA size holders selling for about half the regular price. At $9 it would be a cheap way to make a start on this project.

http://cdcotools.com/

Comments welcome!

Joe
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 10:21:58 PM by 75Plus »
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Offline andyf

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2009, 03:15:39 AM »
I'm sure it could, Joe, provided that you could get the tool down to centre height. The BXA toolholder would need to go lower than normal, because the tool would be raised up by the depth of the floor of the swinging part. If it looks feasible, it's certainly worth a try at those prices!

Andy
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Offline Darren

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2009, 05:17:03 AM »
Wow, they are giving those away ..  :jaw:

But I'm not sure if there is enough meat on them to fit the swinging bit in as well  :scratch:
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Offline NickG

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 05:36:01 AM »
They are, wonder how much it would work out with shipping etc to UK!
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Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Another Swinging Threading Tool
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 10:06:49 AM »
Made one today when I had a spare hour and a half waiting for some weld to dry.

I won't post here and detract from darrens tool but start a new post however I cheated and bolted a tool to a blank tool holder.



John S.
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