Author Topic: BMW V8 dry sump from billet  (Read 169460 times)

Offline Dean W

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #275 on: November 18, 2011, 06:35:55 PM »
This has been a marathon project, Ade.  Great to see it fit up to the engine, and getting close to completion.
Dean W.

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Offline andyf

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #276 on: November 18, 2011, 07:19:18 PM »
Glad to see you are up and at it again, Ade. It's a monster project, and (unless there's anything you are keeping quiet about) it still seems to be going to plan. Speaking of which, was there actually a plan in the sense of drawings or are you making it up as you go along, using the old sump as a model?

Pneumonia? You have been in the wars, what with the pleurisy you had a week or two ago.
 
Quote
it's been a bit nesh in the shop recently...

The shop is just a bit cold. You're nesh, but in the circs, that isn't surprising. I hope you are fully recovered.

Andy
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I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #277 on: November 18, 2011, 07:39:26 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments, chaps  :thumbup:

Andy, it turned out it wasn't pleurisy, it was actually pneumonia - I'd misdiagnosed myself (oops). I think I caught it on the plane over to Turkey, because it first showed up on Wednesday (I flew out on Tuesday) & steadily got worse. By the Sunday, I couldn't even lie in bed, it was just too painful, and walking any more than 100yds was all but impossible.

Still, fair play to the NHS, they got me back on my feet in, relatively speaking, no time. I didn't even have to pay for the prescription. Mind you, I wouldn't recommend an overnight in hospital to anyone - hotels are much more restful...


As for the project.... I've pretty much been winging it. There are some drawings I did early on, e.g. showing the positions of the various holes, drains & milled out sections; and a few crap-o-cads with various other measurements, but for the most part it's just been a case of measure, think, cut. Anyway... so far, so good; once I've finished with the back piece, the plan is to cut away the edges (where the mounting holes are), then cut fins into the bottom; I will probably also shape the bottom so it slopes towards the edges. The main thing is, not to cut into any of the inner workings, that would be a disaster...


EDIT: Ironically, the most difficulty I'm having now is remembering where the drawings actually are, so I can get some bolt centres right!  :doh:
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 11:33:33 AM by AdeV »
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #278 on: November 19, 2011, 03:03:24 PM »
Blimey, MORE progress?! At this rate, there's a danger this project might actually get finished!  :lol:  (Nah, no chance - ed)

So, today I pretty much finished the work on the semi-circular piece that mounts up to the bell-housing & mostly seals it from dirt & gravel ingress - last seen somewhere in the middle of page 11 (here).

The first job was to cut some access channels, so that it's possible to reach the sump bolts with the part in place - essential on the original, desirable on my version as I plan to use lots of loctite to hold the main bolts in place...

Once again, the Gods of Tooling smiled upon me: I needed a long 18mm cutter, and the only one I have, although a roughing cutter, happens to be the longest endmill I've got - plenty of depth of cut:



The piece is clamped as hard as I dared onto the sump, and luckily didn't move at all during each of the four cuts. The end mill is 5" long (to the lip you see just below the collet). So, four cuts later:



I decided to put four mounting bolts in; 2 at the outer edges, and 1 between the centres of the holes; missing out the middle (because the clamp was in the way, and because I don't posess a set of drills long enough to do the job). So, after milling a flat, drilling 5mm, 7.5mm, 8.5mm to depth; then 10mm clearance (to just about the surface of the sump), then milled 16mm counterbore to take the cap head bolts, leaving about 8mm of aluminium for the cap heads to bite into, thus:



After tapping the four holes in the sump, we see the "finished" piece:





The only remaining job on that part is to drill & tap 2 more holes to accept bolts from the gearbox; I'll do that later once I've measured them up. Finally, I need to grab some cap-head bolts to make sure it all goes together nicely.

Next task: Milling around the edges, so I don't need insanely long bolts to bolt the sump to the engine. I've got to be a bit careful doing this, there's a couple of places where the head drains come dangerously close to the edge of the sump, and I need to make sure I don't mill into one of them... Day off :coffee: tomorrow, so progress (should!) resume on Monday :dremel:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #279 on: November 19, 2011, 05:31:28 PM »
Solid, steady progress Ade!  :clap: :clap:

Well done......  :thumbup:

David D
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #280 on: November 20, 2011, 04:11:25 PM »
Thanks David, all encouragement gratefully received  :poke:

Today was supposed to be a day off, but family duties were all finished by 3 o'clock, so I figured I'd get some shop time in... Not much to report, after lots of careful measuring, plenty of  :smart:, quite a lot of :scratch:, a little :bang: and some :coffee:, I figured if I milled all but 20mm of depth, 15mm in, I'd get clearance for the cap bolts AND wouldn't break into any of the drain holes - at least two of which are right next to the fixing holes. Not so clever, Mr BMW.... should have thought about that & moved those mounting holes...

No matter - in the picture the front edge is cut down, and I'm working on the back edge. The cut is some 500mm long, 15mm wide and 38.5mm deep - thank goodness for power feed - and a mill rigid enough to do the backside cut as a climb cut (although it hardly is - the 16mm roughing cutter was taking a 14mm by 0.200" bite, not sure it's still a climb cut at that width?



Reckon I'll turn it around so I can do both front & back under power as well; I have to be careful with the front as the outermost drain hole is less than 15mm from the front of the sump - so one of the mounting bolts is going to have to be longer than all the rest.... well, unless I counterbore it to take a short bolt, I don't think that will foul the pipe...

More tomorrow night hopefully.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #281 on: November 21, 2011, 02:46:58 PM »
Quote
No, damn it all.... the "muscle" was actually pneumonia, and (feeble excuse) it's been a bit nesh in the shop recently...

Holy four little asterisk's :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:    You ok now though eh?

Sorry for the post and run.... I'm just so very busy these days! I did however get a whole 2 evenings in my workshop last week and I actually made something for myself!!!! Not going to tell you what but I might post it in the year long thread it started in!  :lol:


Good to see this moving at such a rate too.... Looking great  :thumbup:

You never know someday soon(ish) I might actually get over there to see it (and yourself) in person again!

Not for a few weeks mind.... Gearbox out again next week!  :doh:




Right, I'll be back on in a day or 50 and expect progress  :whip:    :) 






Ralph.
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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #282 on: November 21, 2011, 03:29:53 PM »
...Holy four little asterisk's :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:    You ok now though eh?
...

That cracked me up!   :lol:
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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #283 on: November 21, 2011, 03:41:24 PM »
Beautiful progress!!

Makes me happy I have all Mazda Rotaries.. and a Dry Sump means flat plate on the bottom of the engine  :clap:
SPiN Racing

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #284 on: November 21, 2011, 04:30:55 PM »
Cheers guys! And yes, I'm pretty much back to normal now, I can still feel "something" if I take a really deep breath, but it's fading every day... I've got a followup appointment in January, so I guess they'll tell me then if I'm still alive or not...

Roight, onwards.... I managed to grab a couple of hours tonight, so I finished off the two short edges. I had planned to do them under power, but laziness got the better of me - I didn't want to have to dial the lump in again, and since I hadn't moved it, all my datum points are still valid - so I have to crank the y-axis a bit, I can manage that....

So, after about 90 minutes, I was all done:



And the front edge:



The big sticky-outy bit that's left is the result of a mistake I made some months ago.... when I misplaced the front drain hole by what turned into 3mm. Because it's so close to the edge, I can't mill in the required 15mm to clear the cap bolt heads; so that one bolt will have to be a long one. I've fixed my drawings now, so any additional sumps won't have that ugly lump up front...

So I figured, let's have a photo with the back plate bolted on:



And, as it wasn't quite 9pm, I figured I might as well mill out the relief holes, which allow you to get a spanner to the bolts above (which, of course, would be entirely unnecessary if one took the gearbox off first):



With all four done, I called it a night.

Now that all of the clamps are off the main surface, I can take the final skim off the bottom. Then it's back on the rotary table to round off the front edges, then onto the angle plate to slope the bottom. Finally, I'll cut some shallow fins into the bottom to help with cooling, and the very last operation will be to drill & tap two more holes in that upright, for the gearbox to bolt into... and then it will be finished!!!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #285 on: November 23, 2011, 03:59:14 PM »
Only a small amount of visible progress today - well, yesterday actually. I've skimmed 3mm off the bottom & tidied it up somewhat. I had a go at some "bling" at the back edge, using a ball end mill to radius up to the bolt-on part. Unfortunately, I managed to slightly muff it, and left a dent in the middle. Ho hum.

Anyway, tonight was almost entirely taken up with careful depth measurements, complex (ish...) trig calculations and other such nonsense. The end result is: I will mill at 18.4o, 75mm in from one edge; and 11.3o, 100mm in from the other. That will slope the bottom down & should remove a tidy amount of metal. It will also leave a theoretical 11mm thickness from any internal void, so no chance of a breakthrough, and plenty of material to cut the fins into. I plan to make the fins a mere 6mm deep, leaving 7mm of metal at the thinnest point, which I feel is massive overkill. Mind you, I'll be double-triple-quadruple checking those calculations before I do any more cutting, a breakthrough now would be a total disaster.

As it stands, the sump currently weighs 14kg without the bolt-on piece. Or, to put that in English terms, "far too f***ing heavy!"  :lol:

Anyway, here's the setup:



The lines are scored in the right place, I've double-checked my angle, and it's good to go... hopefully, plenty of cutting time tomorrow :dremel:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #286 on: November 23, 2011, 05:48:48 PM »
Looking good Ade!  :clap: :clap:

Hope all goes well during tomorrow's shift.......  :thumbup:

David D
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Offline DMIOM

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #287 on: November 23, 2011, 05:57:09 PM »
..........As it stands, the sump currently weighs 14kg without the bolt-on piece. Or, to put that in English terms, "far too f***ing heavy!"  :lol:

But Ade ..... if my memory stretches back to the start of the thread - wasn't there a suggestion that the mk I sump would go on your Dad's car and you would do your's later from the other half of that huge offcut disc? - so leave this one "with a sound margin of safety" and then make your's somewhat more race-light?

Dave

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #288 on: November 23, 2011, 08:29:19 PM »
Quote
That cracked me up!   :lol:
  At least someone noticed  :thumbup:    :beer:


Maths!!?  :smart:  surely this is the perfect time for just take a little off and see where you get to  :D

Seriously though, I'm thinking 7mm is a good solid thickness to aim for. Too easy to dent or rip if it's thin.



Looking forward to the next few installs  :coffee:





Ralph.
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Offline krv3000

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #289 on: November 24, 2011, 02:38:23 AM »
HI sum well thort out work being dun brill
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:28:27 AM by krv3000 »

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #290 on: November 24, 2011, 05:34:57 AM »
Thanks chaps, your kind comments are - as always - much appreciated and highly motivational  :nrocks:

Dave - to answer your specific point - yes, this IS the Mk1 sump, however, overall racing plans have changed. Dad & I will now be sharing the Capri, whilst hopefully also building a new race car from the chassis up. That second car will also have an M5 engine, and one of my dry sumps...

There is a specific reason I'm being ultra-cautious around these measurements... and it's due to another mistake I made over a year ago... when I calculated the angles for the head drains (here), I somehow ballsed up the angle & cut them deeper than I expected. I didn't realise at the time, it was only when I first started looking at the slope calculations that I realised I might run into trouble. The next one will be much easier to make I think, as I know what to watch out for...

Anyway, there's a change of plan... I still need to round the corners off the front, and - as with the wax model - it's much harder to clamp it in the right place once the slopes are cut.... so I shall be using the rotary table tonight instead of the angle plate...


PS Ralph: "Holy four little asterisks" - that made me laugh too, I did notice it, honest!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 06:08:45 AM by AdeV »
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Davo J

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #291 on: November 24, 2011, 06:00:04 AM »
I am still following you build, your doing some great work and will be one of a kind.

Dave

Offline jatt

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #292 on: November 24, 2011, 06:04:52 AM »
Looks way too good to be stuck under a car!!!!!!!!!!!

Progressing along well.
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Offline jim

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #293 on: November 24, 2011, 02:46:35 PM »
excellent work :thumbup:
if i'd thought it through, i'd have never tried it

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #294 on: November 24, 2011, 04:50:25 PM »
Thanks lads, I'm sure you could all make one of these (given the same gear I've got, at least)... but it's nice to be on the home straight I must admit.

No machining tonight, it took over an hour to get the sump set up on the rotary table, and then I discovered I'd got the wrong bl**dy radius! So trying to set it all up again now, it's a frustrating job and it's not quite there yet. At 9.15 I called time. And just to add insult to injury, the damn day job is getting in the road as well. Grrr!

Lots of weekend coming up, though, and no plans to go anywhere - except the mill that is :)
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline doubleboost

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #295 on: November 24, 2011, 05:19:59 PM »
Very nice  :thumbup: :thumbup:
You must be made of stern stuff tackling a job like that
John

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #296 on: November 25, 2011, 05:09:25 PM »
Thanks John - it's either that, or maybe I'm just slightly mad...

I know which one I'd put money on  :lol: wibble...


Anyway, just a quick update tonight. Getting the sump in the right place, and straight, on the rotary table, was an absolute pain in the chuff. Lots of tapping this way & that. I used an upside down end mill to get the position "near enough".

So, after lots of tapping, prodding, measuring, more tapping, etc:



Here's the first cuts going on:



And finally, proof that I got the radius about right (2nd time).



Setup for the second corner was basically identical, and took just as long to get right. As a result, that's all the milling I did tonight; more tomorrow.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #297 on: November 25, 2011, 07:59:06 PM »
Have you got your undies on your head and pencils up your nose?   :lol:

(In joke me thinks??)



Look at that loverly radius   :clap:


Not long now and it'll be on the engine  :headbang: 



And yes..... we all know you're a bit mad  :thumbup:





Ralph.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #298 on: November 26, 2011, 02:23:11 AM »

Setup for the second corner was basically identical, and took just as long to get right. As a result, that's all the milling I did tonight; more tomorrow.

Two corners. Correct rad., and in the right place........  :thumbup:

Sounds like another good shift, to add to all the earlier ones! :clap: :clap:

It will soon be finished now, Ade......  :D

David D
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Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #299 on: November 26, 2011, 05:53:51 PM »
Hi Ralph, aka the Flanders Pigeon Mudererer!! Thought you'd got away with eating old Speckled Jim, eh?  :lol:

Thanks David, that's a nice positive way to look at it... if you'd have seen me sweating and cursing 5 mins before I started cutting the radii, tapping the damn lump all over the shop with the Plastic Hammer of Doom (or, in this case, the Plastic Hammer of GO WHERE THE FOUR-LITTLE-ASTERISKS YOU'RE TOLD YOU BAS-MORE-ASTERISKS LUMP OF YET-MORE-ASTERISKS!!!). But, alls well that ends well, in the end.

Had I got my backside out of bed & down the workshop at a sensible hour, I'd have finished it tonight.... but since I didn't get started until 2pm, it didn't quite happen...

So, here's the penultimate (probably!) episode.


First job - drill 2 holes I'd forgotten, the ones that bolt through the "wings" into the engine. Also, while I was there, I enlarged the mounting holes from 6mm (a very tight squeeze for a 6mm cap-head bolt) to 6.5mm, to give a little bit of "wiggle" room. A trial-fit on the engine had showed that this was needed:



As you can see, it's another precarious setup, with a massive overhang... fortunately, it was only a few holes & all went well:



So, with those jobs out of the way, time to cut those slopes:



It turns out, this job makes quite a mess of the workshop. Lucky I've got plenty of space and a large brush!:



Those of you who have followed this from the start (actually, more likely someone who has just ploughed through all of the 12 pages of this monster story) might find this photo familiar. Certainly, I got a sense of deja-vu... Yep, cutting bl**dy slots again!:



It's worth it though, as the first fins emerge:



I finished them off with a ball-end cutter, just a little blingy bit that'll never be seen, since this thing will spend it's life 6" off the tarmac (or gravel, grass, etc.). I also milled off the ear at an angle, just to tidy that up a bit. So, next job was to flip the sump around, arrange on the mill so I could do the whole job under power feed, set the angle plate, and get cutting. Due to the amount of material to remove, I really pushed the mill & cutter as hard as I dared:



[devon accent] Propper Jaaahb [/devon accent]

So, after a while of that, I made the first mistake of the evening & reset the angle plate (and moved the piece) to cut the second wing. What I should have done was cut the fins on the second angle, while it was all set up & in the right place. Ho-hum.

As a result, I decided to call it a night. That and the fact it's very late o'clock.


Therefore, this is where we're up to:



Final jobs are: Cut the fins in the rest of the bottom; drill the last two holes in the upright piece (I will have to fit it to the gearbox to find the location); Finish any deburring; test-fit on engine; lightly sand the top surface so it's absolutely flat; thoroughly clean and de-grease; make large wooden base and fit sump to wall - no way is it hiding under some car after all this effort!!

OK, all bar the last one then.   :loco:

Weight (including back piece) is now 13kg; still a lot (and it won't get much lighter despite the fins), but there's loads of spare metal which - if I had bigger cojones - I'd mill into. But I'm absolutely paranoid about a breakthrough at this late stage, so I'll stick with the heavyweight version.

Fingers crossed, one last push tomorrow and it's all over!  :bugeye:
Cheers!
Ade.
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