Author Topic: BMW V8 dry sump from billet  (Read 168263 times)

Offline doubleboost

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #300 on: November 26, 2011, 06:18:15 PM »
Certainly a one off
Years ago i was involved in motor sport
We ran heart 420 r engines with ladder sumps this was state of the art
Nissan micras run similar stuff now lol
John

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #301 on: November 27, 2011, 12:47:37 PM »
John - what's a ladder sump? I googled the term, but didn't get anything useful...

Right, did someone say "finished"? No? Good, doesn't do to jump the gun eh....

I got a decent session in today & finished cutting & deburring all the fins. I then test-fitted it to the engine (easy peasy with the slightly enlarged holes, the bolts all wiggled into place nicely). I also test-fitted it to the gearbox & did my best to mark the location of the holes for the other 2 gearbox mounting bolts. I'm not sure I got them spot on, might have to do that job again (and it's a horrid job.

Final weight, after finning, is 12.4kg... a whole kilo of swarf today! Eeek!

No action shots today, you've seen 'em all before, but here's the result:









I gave the engine a full turn with a spanner (surprisingly hard work, it's no wonder starter motors take so much juice), to confirm that nothing inside hits anything in the sump (now that would have been embarrassing!)




The last picture shows one of the (mercifully few) warts: Whilst milling the counterbore for the outer cap-head (the empty hole at the edge of the curved piece), the angle plate collapsed. How the cutter didn't break I'll never know... Next time, must remember to firmly bolt up the angle plate before milling...  :palm:

Also, the trial fit threw up another minor issue - the front 2 bolts under the spigots will need to be counterbored, otherwise they take up room needed by the pipework... Not a problem, as there's nothing underneath those bolts, so I can easily counterbore 10mm or so.

So, outstanding jobs:

 - Drill/tap for the 2 gearbox mounting holes
 - Counterbore 2 mounting holes at the front
 - Cut relief for jubilee clip near inboard spigot
 - General clean-up & degrease
 - Loctite up the end piece bolts (they'll never come off after that)

I would have finished today, if it wasn't for the pesky family inviting me to dinner... but I can't refuse free food... :lol:

So... is this the penultimate post? Tune in tomorrow @ 10pm to find out...  :coffee:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #302 on: November 27, 2011, 03:19:34 PM »
COR!!!!, Ade!  :bugeye:  :bugeye:

That looks a bit lovely!

I've got to admit, it's a shame it will be hidden....... Provided the car is kept greasy side down!  :Doh:

Blummin masterpiece......  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #303 on: November 27, 2011, 06:20:31 PM »
Quote
a whole kilo of swarf today!

Now you're just showing off  :ddb:

 :)


Looks the business chief  :thumbup:

As David put so well...
Quote
it's a shame it will be hidden....... Provided the car is kept greasy side down!  :Doh:


 :lol:




Looking forward to tomorrows instalment..... But probably not as much as you are?  :beer:




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline HS93

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #304 on: November 28, 2011, 03:24:48 AM »
COR!!!!, Ade!  :bugeye:  :bugeye:

That looks a bit lovely!

I've got to admit, it's a shame it will be hidden....... Provided the car is kept greasy side down!  :Doh:

Blummin masterpiece......  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D

Very nice Ade well done, It will be worth Rolling the car so everyone can see it  :lol: :lol: :lol: :doh: :lol: :Doh:

       :ddb: :nrocks: :ddb:Peter :ddb: :nrocks: :ddb:
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline AndreasL

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #305 on: November 28, 2011, 03:58:04 AM »
Hmm, should or should I not do the the sump for the FF1600 my self or just buy a ready made piece of the shelf for just a few ...  :doh:

What an effort!
Guess curbing aint an option after all houres going in to this. ;)  :beer:

Offline HS93

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #306 on: November 28, 2011, 04:05:04 AM »
I think a crossflow sump would be a doddle compared to this beast, I played about with reducing the depth and baffling plus putting wings on a steel one a few years ago, should have gone dry sump would have been easier, about to look at a 4AEG toymota sump now for the same westfield.

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline AndreasL

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #307 on: November 28, 2011, 04:24:49 AM »
I think a crossflow sump would be a doddle compared to this beast, I played about with reducing the depth and baffling plus putting wings on a steel one a few years ago, should have gone dry sump would have been easier, about to look at a 4AEG toymota sump now for the same westfield.

Peter

Very interesting Peter.

And YES, way simpler then for the BMW V8, I know. :)
But still work that has to be weighted against the time/cost table where I'm always way to optimistic about how easy it is to carve something out of metal in no time. :doh:
But still, really tempting to have a go sometime in the future. No hurry, its a long way untill an engine is needed for my vintage FF1600 project.  :whip:

Dont whant to OT this thread anymore, but if you like to share any info and/or photos of your sump mod it would be very appreciated.  :thumbup:

And please tell us about the new engine/car as well.

Offline HS93

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #308 on: November 28, 2011, 05:23:23 AM »
I think a crossflow sump would be a doddle compared to this beast, I played about with reducing the depth and baffling plus putting wings on a steel one a few years ago, should have gone dry sump would have been easier, about to look at a 4AEG toymota sump now for the same westfield.

Peter

Very interesting Peter.

And YES, way simpler then for the BMW V8, I know. :)
But still work that has to be weighted against the time/cost table where I'm always way to optimistic about how easy it is to carve something out of metal in no time. :doh:
But still, really tempting to have a go sometime in the future. No hurry, its a long way until an engine is needed for my vintage FF1600 project.  :whip:

Dont want to OT this thread anymore, but if you like to share any info and/or photos of your sump mod it would be very appreciated.  :thumbup:

And please tell us about the new engine/car as well.
when it comes out ill try and get some pictures , it is just based on the old rally sumps for Mk1/2 escorts then the bottom carved off to reduce the height it was a  bit of a cobble as we need ground clearance but as it was going to be tossed about auto testing it needed to have the capacity.
sorry for going off toppic  :offtopic:

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline -steves-

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #309 on: November 28, 2011, 06:37:49 AM »
Wow, what a job  :thumbup: :clap:

Not sure if you should bolt it to the car or put in a strong glass cabinet on display.  :clap: :clap: :clap:
very new to all this....

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #310 on: November 28, 2011, 09:00:40 AM »
Beautiful work!  Thats a lovely piece of craftmanship. Bravo!

 :clap:
SPiN Racing

Offline arnoldb

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #311 on: November 28, 2011, 12:18:01 PM »
Great job Ade  :bow:  :clap:

Do you realize you'll now have to install a mirror on the pit floor  :poke: :D

 :beer:, Arnold

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #312 on: November 28, 2011, 03:47:19 PM »
Thanks lads, it's been a proper marathon, but I got there in the end.... well, pretty much, as tonight's penultimate (again) installment shall reveal....

Couple of "easy" jobs; locate the screw holes for the gearbox; and counterbore the 2 mounting holes by the pipes.

Here's how I "measured" the location of the mounting holes:



Unfortunately, I managed to get one of them just far enough out that it won't do up  :doh: It will have to make do with 3 bolts instead of 4...

Next, I counterbored the front holes; and made another error (milled one far too deep). Called it a night as the combination of a late night last night + early morning + long day at work = silly mistakes & losing tools...

Also, to my surprise (although I shouldn't be, really), having cut all those fins, the thing has actually warped slightly! I may, therefore, have to take a thin skim off the top surface to get it all straight again. Fortunately, I left myself a couple of spare mms on the top surface; and, worse case scenario (if I have to go deeper than planned), I can mill some more material out of the bottom of each trough to add clearance - so all is far from lost.

So, on that note, time to call it a day. I've got a few silly busy days, early mornings & long-distance travel coming up, so it'll probably be Friday before I get to work on it again.

Go on then, one last glamour shot:



There's a small prize if you can work out how much warp the fins have introduced from that picture (hint: It's concave on the bottom...)
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #313 on: November 28, 2011, 04:00:38 PM »
Sucks about the warp, but it does sound like you have planned appropriately to handle that sort of thing.  :smart:

Now onto the good stuff... can you mount the engine upside down so it can be seen with the hood open? No? Well, you have to machine up some valve covers t match then!

Eric
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Offline NickG

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #314 on: November 29, 2011, 02:21:08 PM »
 :jaw: Amazing Ade, well done ... I would never in a million years dream of attempting such a feat.  :bow:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Anzaniste

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #315 on: November 29, 2011, 03:48:30 PM »
Fan----tast----ic. What a brilliant project. I'm really looking forward to hearing the Bimmer revving its trollies off. :beer:

 It was this thread that drew me into Mad Modder.

I've been hooked ever since.
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Offline doubleboost

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #316 on: November 29, 2011, 04:19:07 PM »
Hi
Ade
A ladder sump is a casting with the main bearing journals integral with the sump (looks like a ladder on the inside)
It helps to stiffen alloy blocks
But they are a pain to work on
John

Offline Doc

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #317 on: November 29, 2011, 10:21:14 PM »
That is looking good I can imagine the mounds of swarf :lol:

Nice work!

Offline Joarek

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #318 on: December 01, 2011, 01:33:33 AM »
Immensely impressive, i really enjoyed reading this thread!

Thank you for taking your time posting the process  :bow:

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #319 on: December 02, 2011, 04:38:01 PM »
Aw, shucks, thanks guys

I've learned one hell of a lot along the way (and, perhaps more importantly, I've learned that there's a hell of a lot more than I've learned still to learn - if, indeed, it's possible to learn it all!). Naturally I exclude John Stevenson from that, as he IS a machining Deity (feel free to rain down the manna whenever you want  :lol:).

Did a couple of bits tonight, just milled the front piece where the spigots come out slightly to give the jubilee clips more clearance. Tomorrow I shall give the top its final skim to make it totally flat, then one last test fit to the engine to ensure it's still got enough depth to clear everything. The new gasket shows up next week sometime, so the penultimate fit will happen then; the week after next it'll be installed in the car, given a quick test, then stripped off again for one last looksee - then, if all is well, back on the engine for, hopefully, ever!

So... does anyone have a big mirror to put on the floor?  :ddb:

Thanks again for all your help, encouragement and  :poke: s along the way, got to find something even bigger to do now! Hmm, I wonder if I could make a V8..? Hmm, maybe I'll get into a competition with Stilldrillin - who can make the biggest engine out of Things Purchased from a Supermarket   :loco:

PS: Ralph, are you around at all? I could use someone who enjoys polishing shiny metal objects....
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #320 on: December 03, 2011, 02:33:31 AM »
That's a great job Ade  :bow:

Hmmm...  Big sheet of Ali plate all polished up will make a nice mirror, and will only get a ding instead of bringing 7 years of bad luck for that inevitable dropped tool or part  :poke: :lol:

 :beer:, Arnold

Offline Dean W

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #321 on: December 08, 2011, 02:23:41 AM »
I missed a few days, and missed a lot in the bargain.
Surly is a thing of beauty, Ade!  I wouldn't have the heart to put it under a car.
What an incredible job.
Dean W.

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Offline krv3000

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #322 on: December 08, 2011, 03:38:28 AM »
HI that's a thing of beauty     

Offline AdeV

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #323 on: December 10, 2011, 12:10:00 PM »
Thanks again Gents, much appreciated. Ralph, you're right, even without polishing it seems to be acquiring little scratches and dings.....  :doh: still, it looks great from a distance, which is what matters...

Anyway, as you may recall, I'd planned to do one final little skim of the bottom, just to take the bow out of it. Well, didn't I nearly wreck the thing? Here's a Very Important Lesson - actually, TWO Very Important Lessons - both of which will rightly attract censure from all quarters....

Lesson 1: If you put the tool in the collet the night before, the following day when you make the cut, make sure the damn thing is tightened up properly!

Yep, the cutter started to unwind itself as I put the cut on, which made the cut deeper.... and deeper.... and deeeeeper......

Lesson 2: NEVER, EVER EVER! walk away from the mill until you're ABSOLUTELY sure everything's tight, cutting properly, etc.

In theory, I know, you're not supposed to walk away at all; but in practice, when you're taking a 10 thou skim at about 2 inches/min, the "do something else" factor is quite high, and is normally no problem.

I heard the cut getting worse, and returned immediately, but by then the damage was done, and the cutter had dropped a full 1.5mm AARGH!

So, that 10-20thou skim becomes a 1.5mm skim. Hey ho, at least it'll be lighter. More annoyingly, the vertical bolt holes, carefully drilled & tapped M10, are now all 1.5mm out of position, which means the sump can't be bolted to the gearbox! Argh!

Therefore, the rescue is as follows:

 - Finish the skim, re-check on engine (it still all clears, without the gasket in place so I must have added some extra clearance earlier - as Stew says, a little clearance never got in the road.
 - Turn down some ali & thread M10. Screw into gearbox threads with loctite & mill flush.

In order to re-locate the bolts, I decided to do something different.... The gearbox has nicely machined holes for the bolts to go through; so, I turned a piece of ali down to diameter & drilled the centre 6mm; then turned down a piece of steel to 6mm and turned a point on the end. The result is a made-to-measure marking punch that will be straight & true every time:




The sump is now on the engine, the next job is to take the engine off the stand, get the gearbox mounted up, punch the marks, drill & tap the holes, & send it on it's way!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Spurry

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Re: BMW V8 dry sump from billet
« Reply #324 on: December 10, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »
Ah ha, I wondered how you were going to get round the height difference of the horizontal holes when you first mentioned the skim.

Lovely job BTW.

Pete