Author Topic: Yet another paddleducks engine build  (Read 23458 times)

Offline boatmadman

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Yet another paddleducks engine build
« on: February 14, 2010, 04:13:41 PM »
I thought it was about time I put my mill to good use, so, after looking around and reading various threads I decided on a Bogstandard engine build.

So, downloaded the files, gave them a coat of looking at and, following his instructions as closely as possible, set to..... :proj:

with one exception, he recommends making a spare every time you machine something - so I am doing, but in this case its a complete spare engine!

My theory is, if I get a 50% success rate I will have one workable :dremel: engine!

Anyway, this pic shows cylinder blocks in CI, pistons and rods, top covers and bottom glands. Also is one brass block machined square for a crosshead, others not done yet. (the line on the block is a machine mark - to be polished out later)

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 05:12:08 PM »
Nice work Ian

I'm sure Bogs will be pleased to hear another engine is on the slipway.

Have fun

Stew
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 01:51:31 AM »
Looking good there Ian :thumbup: that's a real good start made.

My paddleducks build has had a temporary halt called as a more urgent project came up ( redecorating & laying a new floor in the living room ), but I hope to get back to it soon.

Tim
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 03:24:17 AM »
You`ve got that away to a good start Ian!  :clap:

Good luck with the rest of the build.....  :thumbup:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 04:41:52 PM »
Can anyone suggest what grade of aluminium I should use for the block base plate, and where I might get it?

Thanks

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 05:22:27 PM »
Hi Ian,
Glad to her your putting the mill to good use  :thumbup: ............. as for aluminium mine often comes from Fleabay and is usually specified by price rather than grade  :scratch:

I'm sure someone will be along with a sensible answer before long  :beer:

CC

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 05:33:04 PM »
Can anyone suggest what grade of aluminium I should use for the block base plate, and where I might get it?

Thanks

Ian

I cant comment on what grade, but on thickness I asked about the same thing and got told This

Tim
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 06:20:50 PM »
Ian

In case it's any help, I have some 15mm thick 6082T6 which mills very well. ( I only know this 'cos it's printed on it ).

Afraid I don't know where to get it from, as I scrounged it some time ago.

I have some other Ally which is awful stuff, so there are probably some specs. that are not very suitable for machining.

Dave BC
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 09:13:58 PM »
6061 T6 is common around here. Then there is a plate called jig plate which is a softer grade of aluminum, 2024 I believe. Then there is the harder stuff 50 something or other. I know it don't help much, but I'd used 6061 since I have quite a bit of it. Unfortunatley it's in the USA.

Bernd
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Offline AdeV

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 03:36:13 AM »
Here's some basic info about aluminium grades, and a the machinability of some of them at least: http://www.merseymetals.co.uk/aluminium.html

I can also tell you that N8 seems to machine quite well, as that's what I've got tons of at the moment...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 07:59:02 AM »
Great stuff, thanks for the help.
 :thumbup:
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2010, 09:18:54 AM »
Interresting specs. They say international, yet I don't see a spec for 6061 plate.

I've attached a pic of the 1/4" plate I have. It's just for point of interest.
Bernd
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Offline AdeV

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2010, 10:36:39 AM »
Bernd - I believe 6061 is an ISO designation; but 6063 - I was told when I spoke to Mersey Metals last - supercedes 6062 which, in turn, superceded 6061. I presume the formulations are very subtly different, but I can't tell for sure.

If you want, I can ask a specific question or two of them on Monday, when I go to pick up a bit of steel I've ordered.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2010, 11:10:59 AM »
Good grief, what's up with you lot .. :scratch:

Took me about 30 secs. to find this ... not that I have any real interest ..

http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/aluselect/05_fabrication_browse.asp

I've selected the stuff I have on the LH column. sez 6082T6 is 'good' for machinability ..

Dave BC
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 12:55:04 PM »
Managed to get a few hours in the workshop today. Spent 2 hrs figuring out how to mill a radius using the dro, then realised I wasnt taking into account the dia of the tool DOH!

Had one misshap, fortunately, no damage to the mill or tool, just some dints on the work piece oh and I escaped injury!

What happened, got my climb milling and conventional milling mixed up. Ripped the brass out of the vice and sent it across the workshop - lesson learnt! ( it was only a 0.2mm cut as well!)

Anyway, the pics show some brass hacked out of a length of round bar, first into rectangular blocks, and then into 2 croosheads - only 2 more to make now :thumbup:
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2010, 12:58:22 PM »
Ian,

Hey we all make mistakes. Just hope you learned from it.  :thumbup:

Looks like your progressing along quite well. Wouldn't it be neat if you got both engines to run?

Keep up the good work.

Bernd
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2010, 04:34:49 PM »
I got a day in the workshop today, so thought some steam engine work was in order.

I started out with a length of bronze as you see in the first picture, and after several hours of hacking, sawing, swearing, filing and drinking coffee, I ended up with the items in the second picture. These are the bearings for the engines, they are not quite finished yet, they need a cosmetic cut just to make them prettier.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2010, 09:20:25 PM »
Wow Ian. I'm going to have to try those five things you mentioned above and see if I can turn out such nice work.  :thumbup:

Bernd
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2010, 09:41:23 PM »
Ian

I don't know what kind of coffee you are drinking but I know that I want some! Mine sure doesn't give results like that.  :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2010, 02:29:40 AM »
Hey hey, very nice work there :clap:  Keep up the good work.

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline NickG

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2010, 06:20:56 AM »
Yep, nice work Ian. I had the pleasure of visiting Bogs a couple of weeks ago and he showed me this engine running - very nice.

Nick
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2010, 03:50:22 PM »
Ok Fella's, I need advice.

Today I got some brass 2mm sheet for the bedplates, and a new toy, a slitting saw and arbor.

Now, having never used a slitting saw, can I grip the sheet in my vice and cut off a piece the size I want, holding it with, say, a pair of pliers as the cut finishes?

Or, if thats a no no, what do I do?

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2010, 09:29:38 AM »
Boatmadman,  I have often been accused of being a bit lackadasical in the safety department, but I have done what you describe, only using fingers to hold the piece being cut off.  I wouldn't do it with steel particularly stainless, however for brass, I'd have no qualms, but I do have lots of scars on my hands, and my mother shakes her head and never wants to hear.  It will do a bang up job cutting off a piece of sheet with parallel edges, and without distortion along the cut, something of inestimable value with brass.  I don't know what you have for an arbor, but I have avoided multiple size arbors like the plague, not trusting in them keeping the slitting saw flat and tightly held, but have made a separate arbor for each size I need.  For what it's worth, that's my take.   :beer: mad jack

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2010, 04:03:16 PM »
I gave the bearings a nice cosmetic cut today, the first pic shows them with a set of crank web blanks.

The second pic shows one set of ten webs almost finished.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2010, 06:36:45 PM »
Nice work so far Ian. I am impressed. Very nice  :thumbup:

Eric
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2010, 05:47:48 PM »
So, this morning I went out to the workshop thinking to have a practise with my shiny new slitting saw, ready to do a cut on the crankwebs.

Not to be! I mounted the arbor and saw, ran it up to the test piece only to find it wasn't running true. Investigations found that the R8 arbor had been machined too long at the top, preventing the taper from engaging properly.  >>:-(

So, a call to the supplier and a replacement is on its way.

Meantime, I decided to have a go at the cylinder base and crank base plate.

The picture shows the results.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2010, 05:03:07 PM »
The replacement arbor turned up today, hows that for service? Chronos is the company involved.

So, off to the workshop tonight to finish the crankwebs. First the slit was cut in each web, then holes for the locking screw were drilled and tapped in each web, then, finally, dry assembled, and guess what ---- it rotates :-)) (still needs a little fettling yet though)

Have to admit to being somewhat chuffed, as this is the first time I have attempted anything like this.

Anyway, here are pics, sorry a bit blurred.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 04:05:00 AM »
That's coming along nicely there Ian :thumbup: :thumbup:

I'm hoping to get back into the workshop to continue working on my paddleducks build this morning, I got stalled for a while and had to put it on the shelf before I chucked it out the window!!!


But you are making great progress.

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline kvom

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 08:26:47 AM »
Looking good.  If you haven't done so yet, I'd suggest rounding the sharp edges off the crank webs.  You'll be pushing on them a lot to rotate the crank, and it's easy to cut yourself.  (Been there, done that),

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 10:39:12 AM »
Well, I spent the morning fiddling, fettling and polishing, and now I have one crank complete, except for eccentrics, and it even rotates! Need a little bedding in, but it will be ok.

Kvom, yup, done the sharp edge bit! Been there got the scars to prove!

Ian
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2010, 07:39:29 AM »

And then there were two.  :thumbup:

(only loose assembled at the moment)
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2010, 07:46:06 AM »
A really nice pair of twins!

Taking shape nicely now Ian....  :thumbup:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2010, 09:42:54 AM »
Looking real good there Ian.  :thumbup:


Nice work.  :ddb:

Bernd
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2010, 01:16:57 PM »
Today I made the con rods, top end pins, crosshead guides and one set of stands.

I then drilled and tapped one block for the glands and engine plate and assembled the lot.

The pics show the current status of one top half, waiting for a material delivery to get to the same position with the second engine.

So far, things look promising, both cranks rotate, and, in today's assembly, the pistons and crossheads move ok, a little stiff, but they havent been fully adjusted yet, so they should be ok. ( I hope!!)

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2010, 02:55:10 PM »
And then there were two :-))

Closely followed by steam chests, not quite finished, waiting for a 2mm slot drill and 6mm machine reamer to arrive.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2010, 12:25:26 PM »
Managed to finish the steam chests, then went on to make the steam spindle couplings, the steam chest blanks and the eccentric webs.
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2010, 04:48:54 PM »
Update!

I set out to make the steam valve spools and had problems. The first one came out ok, but no2 somehow came out off centre >>:-(, as did no 3, no4, no5 and no 6. >>:-(

So, I left them for a while and tried again, this time with success, all 4 are ok, I think!

So, next job was to drill and tap the base of the steam chests to take the spool gland, first chest drilled ok, then first tap (m2) snapped in the hole grrrrr  >>:-( >>:-( there is no way that is coming out, or so I thought. Then I found out that taps can be dissolved without harm to brass using a solution of aluminium potassium sulphate (alum), now awaiting delivery of the magic powder, I will update on results later.

I then thought I would do a simple job, so made the flanges for connection to the steam chests.

Having succeeded with those, I thought I would tackle the steam control valves next, that went well, although time consuming getting them right.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2010, 03:59:30 PM »
Today I thought I would have a go at some steam pipe and silver solder.

Not having done much ss before, I decided to do some practise items first. The first pic shows a flange blank ss’d to a short length of copper pipe and cut in half. As I wanted to be sure to get full penetration (ooeeerrr), I cut the item in half to have a look.

Success, it appears to have gone all the way through!

I then cut 2 more blanks and had a go at soldering from the pipe end,  pic 2 shows the result, not so good, think again.

 I then turned a flange with a spigot for the pipe to sit in with the idea of putting a ring of ss in the bottom of the spigot, apply heat and let it do its job, but, the pcd of the bolt holes is too small to let me do this with the design requirement of 4mm pipe, so, think again!

I then soldered blank flanges onto a length of pipe from the open end of the flange, filed back to near flat and finished on a flat plate – success, pics 3 and 4 show the results, with some added bling!

Next I needed to work out a way of getting 4 bits of pipe the same. Pic 5 shows a flange positioned 20mm or so from the end of the pipe., with flux and ready to solder.
Pic 6 sees that pipe in the tube bender, using the flange to locate for length, and pic 7 shows the pipe after bending.

Pics 7 and 8 show the finished and polished pipes. These will need to be cut to length to fit into the control block at a later stage.

Overall, I am happy with the results, they aren’t as good as some I have seen, but they’ll do!

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2010, 04:00:46 PM »
and the rest
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2010, 11:28:34 AM »
here we have engine no. 1 mostly assembled and timed. Just needs the blank plates fitting to the steam chests, the cylinder covers bolting on and the steam control block fitting.

It turns with two fingers on the flywheel, its just a little tight, but I hope it will improve with running in.

Now I have to wait for more copper pipe for the inlet/outlet connections.

Then I will have to beg steal or borrow a compressor!

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2010, 08:36:11 PM »
Lookin' real good Ian.  :thumbup:

Bernd
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Offline NickG

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2010, 08:13:31 AM »
Yep, looks great Ian,  :thumbup:

can't wait to see / hear it running!  :clap:
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2010, 01:14:30 PM »
It runs!!!!   :) :)

The first clip shows it at 28psi on air. It started at 35 and after about ten mins ran fairly smoothly at 28. The jerkiness is the camera frame rate - honest!

The second clip shows it running at about 35 psi

Ian

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff219/boatmadman/no%201%20engine%20first%20run/?action=view&current=MVI_1512.mp4

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff219/boatmadman/no%201%20engine%20first%20run/?action=view&current=MVI_1511-1.mp4
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 01:16:17 PM by boatmadman »
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2010, 02:35:02 PM »
Congradulations Ian. Looks good running.

Bernd
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2010, 04:47:28 PM »
Looking good Ian  :thumbup:

Well done.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:



Stew
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2010, 07:11:55 AM »
Update on magic powder and broken taps-- It works!

The offending item has now been dissolved out of the mounting hole which means I dont have to re make the part. There is still some in the tapped hole, but thats not an issue as I think I can rotate the gland by 45 deg .

It took a while,(about a month),  but it didnt hold me up as I was working on the other engine.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2010, 01:11:03 PM »
When I started on this project, I was working with the hope of 50% success rate, hence two engines. The intent was to make the mistakes on No.1 and end up with one good one plus some spare parts.

Well, today I spent fiddling with No.2 engine, and it also runs! In fact I think it runs a little better than No. 1

I havent posted any pics/video as they are identical. When I get them running together I will post a vid.

Ian
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2010, 06:06:33 AM »
Here we have both engines completed, assembled, run in on air but awaiting strip/clean before steam run.
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 12:13:56 PM »
Very well done. Now you need to build two boilers and two boats to put them in.  :D

Bernd
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Yet another paddleducks engine build
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2010, 05:35:11 PM »
Ian

Great job on those engines Ian. They will certainly enhance any boat that you decide to put them in. I am sure a great many of us will be watching for updates on the engines and the boilers.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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