Author Topic: Current gun build  (Read 25559 times)

Offline Alphawolf45

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Current gun build
« on: August 14, 2008, 10:13:46 AM »
   I am building copy of a Stevens Tip-up .22 pistol ..This all for learning lost wax investment casting..First I build this gun in steel. Then will use the parts as patterns to make rubber molds.The molds to output wax patterns that will be invested and cast in bronze....
I am not actually retired ,I merely find myself disabled by an intolerance for productive activity.

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 06:14:41 PM »
Very cool. I do like guns and at one time had a fairly decent collection. However, I am not familiar with the term 'tip up'. What exactly does that mean?

Eric
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 07:11:27 PM »
Thankyou for showing the interest...Stevens was a company later bought out by Savage...Stevens very first model was the Tip-Up..Apparently that refers to the breech opening by tipping up to present the spent cartridge to the shooter..See the attached picture, a typical tip-up....There were a go-zillion slightly different Tip-up models..Some were small pistols, others were long pistols like I am building and then some were made as rifles....Stevens primarily made low cost guns for boys..Like the famous Stevens Favorite and Stevens Marksman...Possibly I like the Stevens guns because my name is Steven..I dunno but I have built several of Stevens designs....and they are not hard to build...I find gun picture I like and drag it into Autocad where I trace it and scale it and soon after that I am cutting metal
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 07:25:10 PM »
Ahhh. never seen that style of loading referred to as tip up. Makes sense though. I had a TC contender that loaded like that.
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 10:07:10 PM »
  Well somebody ought to be yakking about their projects....Probably this dont interest anybody--
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.I mostly finished the Tip-up project now and have begun building a couple 1911s..My wife wants to carry a .45 with her so I building her and I each a new handgun...In the picture you see an 'as recieved' stainless steel frame casting and second one that I been cutting on....These are good projects and perfectly legal if you live in most of the US....Frame and slide castings are 35 bucks from Sarco..Will cost me bit less than 200 dollars to build each 1911 and will give me many hours in the machineshop for entertainment...Not an easy project ..I have made a couple 'oops' so far..I have full schematics but having trouble reading some of it, blurry print and out of focus lines and I have poor vision anyway..
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 04:19:47 PM »
Well it's not a case of not being interested... I just tend to miss some stuff!!

I have a few of questions if I may?

Since I know nothing of the laws over there, do you not have the issues of cooling off periods etc? How would that work if you made the pistol?

Is your neighbourhood that bad that you have to carry a pistol?  (just wondering... not trying to offend, I happen to be one Brit' who thinks guns are not the total problem, it's the person controling them that malfunctions!)

Final question, Will there be any differences in the long term between the pistols if one is a cast body and one billet?
I.E. fatigue corrosion etc....


Just curious... feel free to answer candidly :)


Ralph.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 03:45:07 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2008, 11:02:10 PM »
 
 I have no idea what you mean by cooling off period.....Takes weeks to build a gun of any kind , my enthusiasm has cooled considerably by time I am finished.....Hehhehhe
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.Cast or billit makes no difference . These frames are steel..There are also aluminum 1911 frames...and there are plastic frames of other very popular semi auto handguns...
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 As for laws that cover homebuilds I would refer you to those folks who can quote verbatim, I likely to word the explanation in way that could be misunderstood...Theres a lot of laws..
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  I have had guns since I was a teenager and I'm 52 now..Indeed EVERYBODY I know started off with a few guns and hunting when they were teenager..This is very safe area here where I live but my wife works in the city and I would rather she had a firearm with her if she brokedown some night coming home.I am bit out of the loop since I dont already have a big handgun, have a .22 revolver with a scope. I have never had anything to be used for defensive purposes.
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 When I was very young my GrandFather would let me take apart his old guns and clean them and put them back together..Now I have those old guns..Nothing worth any real money but considerable sentimental value..I have built copies of couple of the single shot  rifles.....22s are my favorite since they quiet ,I can shoot them on my property and it dont bother the neighbors in this rural area..Everybody around here hunts.
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I am not actually retired ,I merely find myself disabled by an intolerance for productive activity.

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2008, 11:46:20 PM »
Love watching gun builds. The laws here are a little restrictive, but I do plan to move and retire back in New England where the laws are a little more favorable. Please continue with the build.

On a side note, I do have a few projects that will be logged here as I do them. Just going to take me a little while to get my life in order... after 5 months of unemployment I just started a new job. Of course, we found out last week we are being bought and I won't have a job again in a few weeks...

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2008, 01:09:52 PM »
Just going to take me a little while to get my life in order... after 5 months of unemployment I just started a new job. Of course, we found out last week we are being bought and I won't have a job again in a few weeks...

Eric

Ah, that explains your not being around so much. Wish you luck with the future. May it treat you a bit better.

Now back to gun building. 8)

Bernd
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 07:27:39 AM »
 I finished the build of the pair of 1911s..This is week old picture dont show the sights I installed on the top 1911 but otherwise the guns today look no different than in this picture...
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 I starting drawing the parts and generating code to scratchbuild a Winchester Highwall falling block rifle in .45-70 caliber...............For those who might not know , these Colt clone 1911 handguns and the Winchester mod 1885 Highwall were both invented by John Moses Browning...Genious prolific American arms designer.
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....Anyway ,anyway.... Several years ago I built the lowwall which is practically the same gun and it took so long to build it that I swore I would never build another...But friend has asked me to help him .He wants to build one so I will make him and I each a set of parts using my cnc mill...To be perfectly legal I will handover parts to him that are very far from usable, nothing remotely resembling a reciever by legal definition.....He'll have a monumental amount of work to do to finish his Highwall, especially considering the few machines that he has to work with...I on the other hand will run through and finish mine in matter of a few weeks..........I love metalsworking!!....
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 08:56:20 PM »
Very nice work there Alphawolf.  :bow:

Do they go "bang"? ::)

Bernd
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Offline J. Tranter

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 01:31:08 AM »
What calliber did you make them to? I want to build one how difficult are they to build?

Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 01:43:18 PM »
  Yes they both function very well..45 ACP....How difficult to build? ....I had trouble reading the blueprints but I have bad eyesight..So I made 3 small mistakes on the first one but I tig welded some new metal into the stainless steel frame and recut it....How difficult? I dont know how to answer that.... I am a machinist and have a well equipped shop , lathes and mills and surface grinders etc, etc,, if I didnt make mistakes I wouldnt have thought the work was hard at all...There have been guys manage to finish such a build and all they had to work with was a Dremel and a drillpress....... but they didnt machine their slide like I did working it from a rough casting, that was touch and go , I would not have been surprised if I'd have messed that up since that work isnt easy to do without specially made tools...I did make 8 or 10 special ground cutters to do the work on the whole project a couple special just for the slide..
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. Aww well aww well..Good hobby , now I started building Highwall parts..That will keep me entertained for couple months , I'll make every piece but the barrel , will make every bolt ,every spring , will cast the crescent buttplate , will carve the stocks.....See the picture... You believe that piece will eventually look for all the world like it come from the Winchester factory? I assure you it will..
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 08:37:51 PM »
 The top rifle is a .38-55 caliber homebuilt version of a Stevens model 44 and 1/2 that I finished a year ago.The lower rifle is another same model -- a .17HM2 caliber that I finished building from barstock last week....Presently I building one in .22LR and another as .32-20 ..This falling block Stevens is very desireable action in some groups of shooters, I like'em for my personal collection.Lot of fun to shoot, accurate , feel right and look proper for 100 year old manufacture...
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2008, 09:28:33 PM »
Thats great!

I was just showing my father your gun builds. He owns a few. He handed me a receiver cover for an old sks that he wants modded.

Thanks for sharing

Eric
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 07:24:11 PM »
 Eric I have had itch to build a gas engine for bout 4 years now.. I am tempted to buy an antique outboard boatmotor and try make a copy of it..The arguement in favor of that is that I could borrow the ignition and carbureation from the original engine to get the home built engine functioning..I just have a couple more classic singleshot rifles that I want to build for myself and finish building a steam launch and then will be trying to build a gas engine or two- probably a year from now......The gun projects has been good for developing some skills.. They are like little selfcontained machines..Not as involved as building an engine but there are some simularities.
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Offline Powder Keg

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2008, 08:28:47 PM »
Great work AlphaWolf!!! I told a couple buddies about the 1911's you were building and that I could get plans for the same gun. They got pretty excited;o) We are talking about starting a "gun night" where we will get together and work on a gun 1 night every week. All three of us want 1911's in 45 caliber but we cant afford the price they bring. So It's looking like we'll build'em:o)

We might start off with a BP rifle to see how it woks out. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Wes

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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2009, 07:01:00 AM »
Heres a .22 that I finished building from barstock...The vintage scope was rusty old thing I had to sand it down and rust blue it...Again the rifle is my version of a Stevens model 44 and 1/2 that made its debut in 1904 .
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 I am working on another couple vintage single shot rifle actions but at the same time I am studying over building a pair of .45 caliber revolvers modeled after the 1873 Colt Single Action Revolver.
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 and still periodically I will hunt the net for pictures of Vintage motorcycles. Ultimately I want to build an early Harley, build engine, frame, tanks, wheels etc... I feel I am close now to having the talent and tools to make a good run at that project.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2009, 09:11:14 AM »
Very nice looking there Alphawolf45.

I say from my perspective your one heck of a gunsmith.  :dremel: :thumbup:


Will it put holes in a target?  :)

Bernd
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2009, 10:02:30 AM »
Very nice looking there Alphawolf45.

I say from my perspective your one heck of a gunsmith.  :dremel: :thumbup:


Will it put holes in a target?  :)

Bernd

  Well Bernd
  That is kind ..Scope rings were bentup when I bought'em on ebay and I straightened them but still need to tweek'em a bit more because the scope points a bit to the right..Its enough that all the reticule adjustment is used up just to align the crosshairs ..So in fact it will poke holes in paper but isnt 'right' yet..And I grind all my own chambering reamers and I cut the chamber tight, too tight really since once the chamber has gotten dirty its not easy to kick out the empty..I'll have to open that up a bit more....Ohh but hey its all in fun, I dont hunt nor shoot paper and not actually collector of firearms either. This messing with guns is just my way excuse for playing in the shop and giving me an education on CAD and using the CNC mills and presently I am getting practice with TIG welding.....
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  I can easily afford to buy guns and the guns I would buy would be better than what I  build..But buying is not the hobby ,,, building is my hobby..Probably that gun pictured cost me less than 100 dollars but took me more than 100 hours labor..If I were really into guns I would just buy them , but then what would I do with my spare time..? What would I learn ?
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2009, 12:55:26 PM »
Ok then a hobby gunsmith then.  :)

Interesting that you make your own reamers. Now there's a talent. How about sharing some info on the making of a reamer and some pics.  :thumbup: Sounds like some precsion machining, heat treating and grinding operations that would need to be done.

Bernd
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2009, 03:25:53 PM »
 Bernd. I tried recently I made a chambering reamer for .17 HM2 caliber but the pictures come out blurry....But I can tell you what I do and it liable to blow your mind..
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.I dont do like everybody else- use oil hardening drill rod and brittle quench and temper after making the reamer..No I make my reamers from good hard  (HSS) high speed steel tool blanks and then dont have to mess with heat treating....( ohh let me add that I have heat treat furnace and a Rockwell Hardness temper and use them all the time but not making chambering reamers).. I turn the HSS (usually starts .500 round and 6 inch long)to size with lathe using carbide lathe tools...and/or spin it under surface grinder wheel using either a spin fixture or punch former to bring it to final size...........AND then I cut the 4 flutes into the HSS reamer on the mill using carbide endmill..Then I coat whole tool with dykem blue and grind relief by hand using a dremel with a cutoff wheel..It ends up looking amateurish but it defintely works well to make them this way and its fast..
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 Serious..I use surface grinder almost daily..You get a surface grinder and its like pouring gas on a fire your projects will go that much faster.If mine took a dump on me today and I couldnt fix it ,I'd have another one drug in here before 2 weeks has passed.....I make special tools all the time..Like need a short .2085 reamer? Just turn down a 1/4 endmill to that diam ..under the surface grinder..Then it will plunge cut to open an existing hole to that dia...That make sense?  ..I prolly preaching to the band , you may already have a surface grinder but I mention this for benefit of the few others who will be reading this post...
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Ohh and here is a picture where I cut the flutes on some reamer, dont remember what it was.
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Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2009, 03:30:28 PM »
 Ohh here is another rifle that I finished in last few weeks..Note I roughed out almost all the parts for a half dozen of these Stevens Mod 44 and 1/2 over a year ago and I just getting around to finishing several of them..I built 3 of the 6 now and probably I wont finish the others, these are enough of that type action..
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2009, 02:34:58 AM »
Hi Thanks for showing us your gunning smithing skills,  :clap:

In the UK we don't get the same level of exposure to guns as you chaps in the US, and don't appreciate the craftsmanship involved.

I new a gunsmith who learnít his craft at Perdies in Bermingham he was one of the best hand fitters you could meet a wizard with a file.

As for turning HSS I can remember watching my father modify some small hard rolls with a small carbide tool, to get a job out of problems, it amazing what you can do if you only try.

Cheers and have fun
 :wave:

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Current gun build
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2009, 07:40:22 AM »


As for turning HSS I can remember watching my father modify some small hard rolls with a small carbide tool, to get a job out of problems, it amazing what you can do if you only try.

Cheers and have fun
 :wave:

Stew


Thats it exactly Stew.. "it amazing what you can do if you only try."  ..An old tool and diemaker buddy of mine is fond of saying that if you think of something it will probably work...That the same as saying its okay to try something that youre not certain will work out..
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 England is where the finest firearms ever made were produced by the most skilled of artisans..Then I guess your government decided it's average citizen was too violent/dangerous to be allowed to have dangerous weapons..extrapolating from that bit of information, I'd hate to have to live in a city full of you evil bastards :)
 .
 I have a private Yahoo group of 12 elite metalsworking hobbiests and two of them are from the UK . One of them is in law enforcement yet he does not own a single firearm and never has owned one... He had an air rifle when he was a boy..... I havent the heart to tease him too much about it..It sad I think..Over here we grow up going out hunting in the fall/winter with Dad and uncles and brothers and have a wonderful time..Youre missing out on a healthy family activity.......Actually I am grateful to be able to enjoy this hobby. I dont take it for granted , indeed the wrong set of selfserving SOBs in political office and we will lose our guns as completely as our friends across the pond.
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 I am going to switch over to building copies of old west 6 shooters..Colt Single action revolvers...No time to waste, while it is still legal I want to build a couple or three more handguns.....Handguns will be first to go when this new administration starts re-writing the Constitution of the United States....I attach picture shows example of what I want to try to build.....Well , what I build wont be anything as nice as that but I will try.. :D
I am not actually retired ,I merely find myself disabled by an intolerance for productive activity.